Thanks Spock I jumped the gun posting. I appreciate you enlightening me.

ppaw1999;1852951 wrote:Ironman92 that is quite a turnover for principals. Do you think the problem is the union or administration or something else?

That was the tail end of when I began. That school closed 2 1/2 years into my career and joined the other elementary school. We had 3 principals in my 2 1/2 years at that school. Teachers made it difficult on principals who were good people that liked kids. First guy my first year aged about 10 years in those 9 months. The next lady was a sweet woman who was your typical loving elementary school teacher...but didn't mix well at all with those bully type/defy you on purpose teachers. I felt really bad for her. Next guy was a tool but when schools combined he was the assistant.

It was the teachers who ran off all of those principals.

ppaw1999;1852953 wrote:If you don't mind me asking how many paid sick days per year are you entitled to?

Once I get to 200 I'll get paid for 1/2 the days over.

I get 15 per year. So starting the 2017-18 school year I'll be sitting at 197 I believe. If I don't miss any days that would put me at 212 going into the next school year....my August 30th 2018 check would have 6 additional days on it....a nice little bonus.

Now that I think of it it might be 2/3 the days.

All I know is I don't plan on missing unless it's absolutely necessary....though I've been that way anyways my first 19 years.

ppaw1999;1852946 wrote:5 weeks vacation after 25 years of service. 1 personal day per year.

So, you get 26 days a year. I think most teachers get around 14 sick days and 2-3 personal days. Do you have an issue with the name of the days or the number of days?

Spock;1852952 wrote:. The OP falls short of actually praising most teachers for This.

Praise for what, exactly - not using a sick day when you're not actually sick (a.k.a stealing)? Praise for showing up every day to a job that requires only like 8 months a year?

This crap doesn't fly in the private sector. I've taken 2 sicks days in 20 years and my attendance has never been acknowledged. Complete joke.

The real issue, being union and all....if you don't give people some sort of incentive, then they see others using sick days (some of whom are actually sick) and start thinking you're an idiot for not doing the same. Companies in the private sector don't do much of this any more, capping a nominal number that can be carried over (to use, not get paid for) while others have eliminated it all together.

You get X number of days to do with whatever you want. If you have a major surgery coming up, then you'll have to use 2-3 weeks of you PTO. If you have a really serious issue, that is usually covered under short-term disability insurance.

gut;1852960 wrote:Praise for what, exactly - not using a sick day when you're not actually sick (a.k.a stealing)? Praise for showing up every day to a job that requires only like 8 months a year?

This crap doesn't fly in the private sector. I've taken 2 sicks days in 20 years and my attendance has never been acknowledged. Complete joke.

How many vacation days have you taken in your 20 years? Many private sector jobs offer more paid days off than the 15 or so that the average teacher gets.

Al Bundy;1852962 wrote:How many vacation days have you taken in your 20 years? Many private sector jobs offer more paid days off than the 15 or so that the average teacher gets.

Most jobs start with only 2-3 weeks a year, plus 7-10 holidays. For those of us in the private sector, it's the only time off we get. After 5-10 years (and it's becoming increasingly rare for people to stay that long at the same company), you might pick up another week up to usually a maximum of 5 weeks.

Teachers get all those days students get - winter and spring break, plus holidays. And then of course summer break. Sure, they aren't paid for that but in reality none of us are paid for time off - it's a perk. You have a salary, and you have time off.

Al Bundy;1852941 wrote:How many vacation days did you get a year?

0-3 years of service - 104 hours, or 2 weeks 3 days (applies to all federal employees including USPS)
3-12 yrs of service - 160 hours, or 4 weeks
12 yrs service on up - 208 hours, or 5 weeks 1 day

Max annual carryover of vacation leave is anywhere from 240 hours to 560, depending on agency and level. I was in the 560 category.

I had about 320 hours in my balance that I was paid for when I retired.

Benny The Jet;1852935 wrote:I'm a teacher, I've banked around 50 sick days in my 6 years of teaching. It would be more, but whenever my kids are sick or have Dr. appointments...I'm the one to stay home. My wife's job doesn't have paid sick days...so I take over and she works. I think we max out at like 100 or maybe even 180, I'm not sure.

I've only had a career as a teacher, and I'm elementary, so it's like 18 women and 2 guys in my building. This may sound dumb, but what happens when a woman gets pregnant in the private sector? Do they get paid maternity leave? I know for teachers, at least our district, you only get paid for the sick days you use. So for example, if you're a new teacher, and don't have much banked up....you may get paid for a week or 2 of leave, and the rest is unpaid. Not super awesome for them.

I've been at my job for seven years, and I have 18 personal days per year. If/when I have a baby, I will use those, and then the rest of my maternity leave will be unpaid. It's going to be super awesome.

Al Bundy;1852959 wrote:So, you get 26 days a year. I think most teachers get around 14 sick days and 2-3 personal days. Do you have an issue with the name of the days or the number of days?

Agree with Gut. In a 9 month school period there is around 185 scheduled school days. 2 weeks off for winter break a week off for spring break and just about every holiday you can think of. I can think of nothing in the private sector that comes close to that kind of work schedule. Then to get personal sick days on top of that?

gut;1852961 wrote:The real issue, being union and all....if you don't give people some sort of incentive, then they see others using sick days (some of whom are actually sick) and start thinking you're an idiot for not doing the same. Companies in the private sector don't do much of this any more, capping a nominal number that can be carried over (to use, not get paid for) while others have eliminated it all together.

You get X number of days to do with whatever you want. If you have a major surgery coming up, then you'll have to use 2-3 weeks of you PTO. If you have a really serious issue, that is usually covered under short-term disability insurance.

I don't know about your short-term disability pay but mine was an awesome $100.00 a week.

Fab4Runner;1852979 wrote:I've been at my job for seven years, and I have 18 personal days per year. If/when I have a baby, I will use those, and then the rest of my maternity leave will be unpaid. It's going to be super awesome.

That's awful. Puts so much unneeded extra pressure on the mom to have to get back to work and leave a month and a half old, if the family relies on that 2nd income. America has one of the worst maternity leaves in the world I believe.

ppaw1999;1852980 wrote:Agree with Gut. In a 9 month school period there is around 185 scheduled school days. 2 weeks off for winter break a week off for spring break and just about every holiday you can think of. I can think of nothing in the private sector that comes close to that kind of work schedule. Then to get personal sick days on top of that?

The fallacy in your argument is that just counted unpaid days. I've worked both public and private sector. I think the grass is always greener on the other side. I currently work private sector mainly because of the better salary. The benefits were slightly better in the public sector, but the salary difference in the private sector more than makes up for it. I can't speak for everyone else, but I get more paid days off in the private sector than I did in the public.

ppaw1999;1852980 wrote:Agree with Gut. In a 9 month school period there is around 185 scheduled school days. 2 weeks off for winter break a week off for spring break and just about every holiday you can think of. I can think of nothing in the private sector that comes close to that kind of work schedule. Then to get personal sick days on top of that?

I hear this a lot, being a teacher. I agree, the time off is fantastic. But, 1) I believe our pay (lack there of, I'm in low 30's in my 7th year) reflects the time off and 9 months of work. 2) Not an attack on you, just in general, but if people are so upset about it....become a teacher? What's stopping anyone from becoming one? Many people weigh the pros and cons when picking education Pro:Vacation and time off, educating and helping kids Conay

Private sector. Current job has "unlimited" flexible time off, 7 holidays, and 12 weeks of paid parental leave for primary care givers. New job will have 20 days of PTO and 7 holidays. Unsure of parental leave.

ppaw1999;1852955 wrote:Thanks Spock I jumped the gun posting. I appreciate you enlightening me.

Has this EVER been said on this site?

ernest_t_bass;1852996 wrote:Has this EVER been said on this site?

I was taken aback by that when I read it too. I was expecting some sort of name calling attack. Not the norm.

Benny The Jet;1852985 wrote:I hear this a lot, being a teacher. I agree, the time off is fantastic. But, 1) I believe our pay (lack there of, I'm in low 30's in my 7th year) reflects the time off and 9 months of work. 2) Not an attack on you, just in general, but if people are so upset about it....become a teacher? What's stopping anyone from becoming one? Many people weigh the pros and cons when picking education Pro:Vacation and time off, educating and helping kids Conay

Sorry I didn't mean to step on any toes. I have always voted for every school levy that has been placed on the ballot. I've been very disappointed on the occasions when they passed that the majority of the levy went to administration. My main problem is with the bad teachers that are able to keep their jobs only because of having tenure and an union to protect them. I found Ironman92 post about certain teachers running the principals off quite telling. One anecdote : a few years back the faculty at our local elementary school held an informational meeting on the upcoming levy. The teachers brought up their inequity in wages to the assembled body. One parent made the statement that if the faculty wanted to see the inequity in income to wait until the end of the school day. Then go outside and take a look at the cars in the teacher's parking lot and then look at the cars that the parents were driving to pick up their children. Dead silence from the faculty. I respect teachers and feel that my community for the most part is blessed with an excellent educational system.

Benny The Jet;1853001 wrote:I was taken aback by that when I read it too. I was expecting some sort of name calling attack. Not the norm.

I have never claimed to be very smart:RpS_mellow:

Al Bundy;1852984 wrote:The fallacy in your argument is that just counted unpaid days. I've worked both public and private sector. I think the grass is always greener on the other side. I currently work private sector mainly because of the better salary. The benefits were slightly better in the public sector, but the salary difference in the private sector more than makes up for it. I can't speak for everyone else, but I get more paid days off in the private sector than I did in the public.

It would be interesting to know what the average time off would be in the private sector. I tend to believe that the public sector is far greater in most circumstances than the private. Quite obviously Al Bundy you have a huge advantage over most of the populace enjoying your Massillon High School education.:RpS_love: Tongue in cheek sir!

ppaw1999;1853003 wrote:Sorry I didn't mean to step on any toes. I have always voted for every school levy that has been placed on the ballot. I've been very disappointed on the occasions when they passed that the majority of the levy went to administration. My main problem is with the bad teachers that are able to keep their jobs only because of having tenure and an union to protect them. I found Ironman92 post about certain teachers running the principals off quite telling. One anecdote : a few years back the faculty at our local elementary school held an informational meeting on the upcoming levy. The teachers brought up their inequity in wages to the assembled body. One parent made the statement that if the faculty wanted to see the inequity in income to wait until the end of the school day. Then go outside and take a look at the cars in the teacher's parking lot and then look at the cars that the parents were driving to pick up their children. Dead silence from the faculty. I respect teachers and feel that my community for the most part is blessed with an excellent educational system.

Now that, I agree with. I catch flack because I am not a huge teacher union supporter. They get overly protected by them. I see bad teachers just coasting because once they get in, they're pretty much untouchable thanks to the union. I don't think it should be that way. Do your job well, and keep it. Do you job poorly, and lose it. Pretty simple to me. I get the negotiating part of it, but I'm still not a huge fan.

What about bad admin?

Benny The Jet;1852985 wrote:....I believe our pay (lack there of, I'm in low 30's in my 7th year) reflects the time off and 9 months of work.

Probably true, just depends on how you want to look at it. In some ways PTO is a gimmick - you have to work X number of days to earn Y number of dollars. A lot of us aren't really getting "time off" because the work is there waiting for us when we get back....and it's not really costing our employer anything, so it's basically flex time.

Only difference is for jobs that have to be physically covered, like a teacher, sales clerk or assembly line worker. Now it costs your employer money because they actually have to pay someone to cover your job while you are off.

And while private sector pays more up front, for the most part we no longer have pensions and benefits. The total career comp for govt workers, in many cases, is now equal to and often greater than private sector counterparts. That's just wrong when you factor in time off, workload, job security, etc...

gut;1853011 wrote:Probably true, just depends on how you want to look at it. In some ways PTO is a gimmick - you have to work X number of days to earn Y number of dollars. A lot of us aren't really getting "time off" because the work is there waiting for us when we get back....and it's not really costing our employer anything, so it's basically flex time.

Only difference is for jobs that have to be physically covered, like a teacher, sales clerk or assembly line worker. Now it costs your employer money because they actually have to pay someone to cover your job while you are off.

And while private sector pays more up front, for the most part we no longer have pensions and benefits. The total career comp for govt workers, in many cases, is now equal to and often greater than private sector counterparts. That's just wrong when you factor in time off, workload, job security, etc...

I'd agree with that for the most part. Although, the benefits and retirement packages have been decreasing since I've begun teaching, they're still really good and better than most, I won't complain about it.