CenterBHSFan;1856341 wrote:On my local morning news this morning it was said that Trump stated that he was willing to renegotiate a deal that was more beneficial to the US. I would be open to that, but that has got to happen first, obviously. I don't know if Trump would be willing or even able to sit down at the table and comprise a bargain.

It really does seem to be the curve, though, where alliances and coalitions are starting to disintegrate. Just take a good look at the EU, and that had nothing to do with Trump. It also doesn't lessen the UK's "status". And the UK has also stated that they would be willing to still work with the EU on issues of their own choosing. Naturally, the EU doesn't like that one bit. But ultimately, it's the decision that the people of Britain made and not the non-elected representatives of the EU.

ptown_trojans_1;1856303 wrote:Look, the Paris Agreement was a framework for the whole international community to at least try and limit carbon emissions at their own pace. It would not limit the U.S. really, as we could have changed our own limits, well within the rights of the agreement. It was not a treaty for that reason, it was just the first step in the long process of limiting greenhouse gases, which is said to contribute to climate change. Yes, that is what the science says.

I am a trans-Atlanticist, but if the American president said in the next hours or days that he wants to get out of the Paris climate deal, then it is the duty of Europe to say, ‘No, that’s not how it works,'” Juncker said

Juncker was adamant that it’s not as easy to leave the treaty as Trump might think: “The climate deal says: It takes three, four years after the treaty took effect last November to exit the agreement. That means the idea that you can simply disappear into thin air — that won’t happen.
“The law is the law, and everyone has to stick to it,” Juncker continued. “Not everything which is law, and not everything which is written in international treaties, is fake news. You got to stick to that.

ptown_trojans_1;1856303 wrote:Alliances and other agreements do not matter any more. That is the message the rest of the world sees.

majorspark;1856362 wrote:You have a foreign leader (Jean-Claude Juncker) publicly warning the POTUS before he decided to pull out of the "agreement" that he will not be able to do so until the end of or after his first term.





As you can see Mr. Juncker disagrees with you and refers to it as a treaty. He even refers to it as the law, as if it trumps our own laws. If this is not the type of foreign commitment the founders intended to require the consent of 2/3 of the Senate I don't know what is.
This Juncker guy (who is president of the EU commission) is no small player in this and seems to believe this agreement has primacy over US law. Seriously how should our law making body not have a say in this?


Perhaps if Obama had brought in the part of the other coequal branch of government that the Constitution requires an agreement or alliance would be laid on a solid political foundation. Kind of like a President taking us to war without the explicit approval of Congress.

NATO has a solid political foundation. This Paris (fill in your favorite synonym) did not.

http://www.politico.eu/article/juncker-warns-trump-to-stick-to-paris-climate-deal/

superman;1856369 wrote:When we don't pay into their scam, who is going to collect? Lol.

Spock;1856368 wrote:Glad trump is a solid leader and is following the constitution

Spock;1856368 wrote:Glad trump is a solid leader and is following the constitution

majorspark;1856390 wrote:This is why the EU is beside themselves. Germany and France have been lusting over control of continental Europe for centuries. What the Germans failed to accomplish in the last century with costly wars they have succeeded in accomplishing with economic carrots via the EU. Enticing European nations to join the fold if they surrender just a little sovereignty for EU money.

We already subsidize their military defense. Now they want us to subsidize their ability to dangle economic carrots around the world via climate change. You have to understand Mr. Juncker and his ilk are drunk with power. It's no longer enough to steamroll the underdeveloped nations of Europe.

Then you have guys like Ptown who lament that Trump did not mention article 5. Yet our young people today sit on the front lines of Eastern Europe thousands of miles from their homes. Actions speak louder than words. Mr. Joncker fails to respect that many American young people would die protecting his seat of power.

The world is governed by the aggressive use of force. I realize our need to use force and be involved. I have great disrespect for nations who use that reality and don't respect our commitment of blood and treasure.

Spock;1856368 wrote:Glad trump is a solid leader and is following the constitution

isadore;1856411 wrote:gosh a ruddies what a great idea. Lets push the German to build up their military, what could possibly go wrong with pushing them toward militarism.

O-Trap wrote:Today? Not that much.

isadore;1856411 wrote:gosh a ruddies what a great idea. Lets push the German to build up their military, what could possibly go wrong with pushing them toward militarism.

isadore;1856417 wrote:The repeated comment over last century about the threat of German militarism. Get ready to stack the bodies.

CenterBHSFan;1856434 wrote:How can you even jump to saying that?

majorspark;1856447 wrote:Bigotry sprinkled with a little racism.

majorspark;1856426 wrote:Are you saying the German people are inherently evil?

CenterBHSFan;1856434 wrote:ffs Germany is not going to become a military threat over a climate deal. How can you even jump to saying that?

O-Trap;1856431 wrote:Germany today != Germany in the 1920s and 1930s.

Want to place a bet on the body stacking?

CenterBHSFan;1856468 wrote:I would argue that the EU was doomed to fail anyway. People that were not elected ran the show there, it shouldn't be surprising in the least.

isadore;1856471 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, I would argue that Trump's attempt to undermine NATO could have catastrophic effects. And that he is an idiot as can be seen by his comments today about the London attack.

CenterBHSFan;1856479 wrote:Bringing Trump into a discussion of the EU has no foothold. He has nothing to do with the EU and its failings.
But if you want to talk about NATO, it has its own failings too. It will have to work on resolving those failings if it wants to survive. Trump will have little to no true power to its existence.

isadore;1856454 wrote:gosh a ruddies, Germany 1900s and 1910s expanding economic and military power unrestricted by anyone, it dominated the triple alliance. Germany 1933 expanding economic and military power unrestricted by anyone, dominating the axis,
And now Germany is economically dominant in Europe and could easily become militarily dominant.
and thanks to Donald Trump
"The times in which [Germany] could fully rely on others are partly over. I have experienced this in the last few days," Merkel said during the event. "We Europeans really have to take our destiny into our own hands."
so after 70 plus years of European peace with Germany our client state.
Germany unleashed.

O-Trap;1856536 wrote:One country always has the economic advantage. Why does it matter that it's Germany?

Also, why do you assume self-reliance require military aggression or an absence of peace?

isadore;1856548 wrote:gosh a ruddies, countries have histories.