The fact is that John Calipari did not cheat on the test. Derrick Rose did (maybe). You are the one who is blaming someone who has not at all been implicated. Just as you said it isn't the clearinghouse's responsibility to flag a test score, neither is it Calipari's. They did what they do, he did what he does.

Bob Knight is a funny example. So, he didn't break any recruiting rules. But he got fired after 30 years at the same place for what? I'm not sure a guy known for continually disrespecting referees, lacking any emotional control to the point of violence against your players, and oh there was that poor taste "joke" that ticked off an entire ethnic group can really be the authority on integrity or character. I know, he didn't "cheat", he's just an asshole.

enigmaax wrote: The fact is that John Calipari did not cheat on the test. Derrick Rose did (maybe). You are the one who is blaming someone who has not at all been implicated. Just as you said it isn't the clearinghouse's responsibility to flag a test score, neither is it Calipari's. They did what they do, he did what he does.

Ya, I am sure and 18yr old Rose engineered the entire situation...traveling from Chicago to Detroit, finding a comfortable place to take the ACT, along with some unbelievable "tutoring" so he could raise his score to be eligible!! Uh huh...ya, thats it, thats how it all went down!!

And I'll take Asshole Knight to coach my kid any day of the week of Cal and most any other coach.

Most 18 year olds are smart enough to figure out a way to cheat their ACT. I played basketball with a guy who had someone else take his ACT. It's really not that hard. You should an ID and take the test. End of story.

I just don't understand what makes you so righteous when you are blaming a man who hasn't been implied AT ALL! The NCAA investigated it. They asked the questions and did the research that you didn't. I'll trust them moreso than your conspiracy theories. If you are so smart and have it all figured out, why don't you call the NCAA and provice them with some of your insight into this situation?


Who gives a shit what Bob Knight says? He was fired from Indiana and realized the game passed him by and now sounds like a bitter old man. How about talking about how Calipari responded to Knights comments? Talk about dealing with something with class. Class is probably the last word you would use to describe Knight.

Azubuike24 wrote:
Are people really naive enough to actually believe coaches should avoid ANY student athlete that has ANY questionable academic trouble? If so, then numerous kids each year and some of the best to ever play in college should've never gotten scholarship offers.

Cousins, Wall and Bledsoe all had eligibility questions going into their senior years of HS. The point is when the majority of your classes are academic question marks, you are playing with fire. K recruited Bledsoe and Wall. If he got one of them, that would be the third academic question he took IN 15 YEARS compared to Cal who took three IN ONE CLASS. Yes, you can roll the dice on a kid every so often, but when your program is based upon guys who struggle to qualify, you have to admit that the probability of a Rose situation is much more likely than other programs.

Again, is it not the job of the Clearinghouse to determine this? It's not like Calipari is playing them after they didn't get cleared by the NCAA. If they didn't get cleared, they wouldn't be on campus. But they did.

thedynasty1998 wrote: Again, is it not the job of the Clearinghouse to determine this? It's not like Calipari is playing them after they didn't get cleared by the NCAA. If they didn't get cleared, they wouldn't be on campus. But they did.

Good point. And the NCAA also has cleared John Wall's relationship with Brian Clifton, Wall's AAU coach who was a former agent and probably will be Wall's future agent. So even though Cal was ultimately burned by Camby's agent situation, I guess he is not worried that a repeat will happen with Wall, either.

centralbucksfan wrote: typical youth speaking these day. Its everyone elses fault except for the person who is actually instigating the dirty deed.

centralbucksfan wrote: Ya, I am sure and 18yr old Rose engineered the entire situation...traveling from Chicago to Detroit, finding a comfortable place to take the ACT, along with some unbelievable "tutoring" so he could raise his score to be eligible!! Uh huh...ya, thats it, thats how it all went down!!

Wait, it is everyone's fault except the person who instigates it? So that means if I get in trouble for robbing a place, but it was my friend's idea and his car, but I walk into the place and point the gun, it is all his fault because he instigated it?

Here's a thought, Derrick Rose CHOSE to cheat. The logistics aren't as important as the fact that HE made the decision to be a part of it.

As for everything else, if Calipari was proven to be involved I would be much more inclined to agree with nearly everything you said. But you are speculating and doing so contrary to the facts that the NCAA has already acknowledged.

Finally some sense to this discussion.

enigmaax wrote:

september63 wrote: So if none of this is Cal's fault. Is it merely a coincidence that he left 2 schools within a year of getting them put on probation? Once, maybe. Twice, he is an a-hole!!

So the NBA and perhaps the greatest college basketball program of all time must've been in on it too. They each offered Calipari a job right before his school was put on probation. Or maybe those choices had nothing to do with leaving mid-major programs.

This isn't the frist time Kentucky has hired a "cheater" . Eddie Sutton ring a bell?

Skyhook79 wrote:

enigmaax wrote:

september63 wrote: So if none of this is Cal's fault. Is it merely a coincidence that he left 2 schools within a year of getting them put on probation? Once, maybe. Twice, he is an a-hole!!

So the NBA and perhaps the greatest college basketball program of all time must've been in on it too. They each offered Calipari a job right before his school was put on probation. Or maybe those choices had nothing to do with leaving mid-major programs.

This isn't the frist time Kentucky has hired a "cheater" . Eddie Sutton ring a bell?

Yeah, had Eddie Sutton been in trouble prior to the Kentucky hire?

enigmaax wrote:

centralbucksfan wrote: typical youth speaking these day. Its everyone elses fault except for the person who is actually instigating the dirty deed.

centralbucksfan wrote: Ya, I am sure and 18yr old Rose engineered the entire situation...traveling from Chicago to Detroit, finding a comfortable place to take the ACT, along with some unbelievable "tutoring" so he could raise his score to be eligible!! Uh huh...ya, thats it, thats how it all went down!!

Wait, it is everyone's fault except the person who instigates it? So that means if I get in trouble for robbing a place, but it was my friend's idea and his car, but I walk into the place and point the gun, it is all his fault because he instigated it?

Here's a thought, Derrick Rose CHOSE to cheat. The logistics aren't as important as the fact that HE made the decision to be a part of it.

As for everything else, if Calipari was proven to be involved I would be much more inclined to agree with nearly everything you said. But you are speculating and doing so contrary to the facts that the NCAA has already acknowledged.

Some sense? Chose to cheat? You don't know this? This is a kid who came from a not so well off living situation. If he doesn't pass the ACT, he doesn't play basketball that year, at all.
So, someone, an manipulative ADULT at that, approaches a 17,18 year old kid, with his upbringing, with the opportunity to continue to do what he LOVES to do? Tells him its not big deal, everything will work out, etc, etc. and you want to blame it all on the kid?
Wow, some of you will try to twist this anyway you choose, just so NOT put the blame where it should lie, with the ADULTS who instigate things to a YOUNG man, who, probably had NO other choice.

Dynasty, your right..some do cheat. But this was NOT a normal kid. This was one of the TOP recruits in the country. EVERYONE in Chicago KNEW this kid. If another kid, with a FAKE ID showed up in the area to take the test for Rose...do you not think that wouldn't have been in the papers the following week? DUH!!
So, now, what does Rose do? Oh wait, "someone" gives him a call, and says here what you do, its all arranged...
And just by chance, it happens to be in Detroit...where its well known that you know who is there, WWS!! No one in Detroit knows about Rose or what he looks like. Fake ID, pay a smart kid...bingo, all taken care of.
Do I really need to go on? Is it that HARD to figure this out? Please...

And please just stop with the PROVEN crap. Heck, even Jim O'Brien was cleared of wrong doing at OSU...but anyone with an ounce of knowledge KNOWS he was involved. John Wooden didn't get in trouble while at UCLA, ever....and EVERYONE knows about Sam Gilbert...I could go on and on with many, many other examples. Just because the "NCAA", who SOME of you are blaming for this,(talk out of both sides of your mouth), doesn't put it on the coach (they rarely do, its always the institution), doesn't mean the coach wasn't involved or guilty!

I just don't get you.

Yes, and 18 year old kid is smart enough to figure out how to cheat on his ACT. You think it's the first time someone cheated on their ACT? He also realized that everyone in Chicago knew him, and someone goes and takes the test in another city and he's just another kid. Why is THAT so hard to understand? Derrick Rose cheated and is responsible. Why do you try to pass the fault on someone else? I don't get it!

I'll say it again. I played with a guy in college who transferred in from a D1. He cheated on his ACT and was smart enough to know how and where. No one arranged it for him. It's not that complicated.

Jim O'Brien won his lawsuit against OSU right?

How hard is it for you to understand that the NCAA investigated this whole scenario and came away saying Calipari was not at fault. They investigated much better than you. They know the facts. They talked to all parties involved.

Yet, you come on here and have these conspiracy theories that you think the NCAA never considered?

thedynasty1998 wrote: I just don't get you.

Yes, and 18 year old kid is smart enough to figure out how to cheat on his ACT. You think it's the first time someone cheated on their ACT? He also realized that everyone in Chicago knew him, and someone goes and takes the test in another city and he's just another kid. Why is THAT so hard to understand? Derrick Rose cheated and is responsible. Why do you try to pass the fault on someone else? I don't get it!

I'll say it again. I played with a guy in college who transferred in from a D1. He cheated on his ACT and was smart enough to know how and where. No one arranged it for him. It's not that complicated.

Jim O'Brien won his lawsuit against OSU right?

How hard is it for you to understand that the NCAA investigated this whole scenario and came away saying Calipari was not at fault. They investigated much better than you. They know the facts. They talked to all parties involved.

Yet, you come on here and have these conspiracy theories that you think the NCAA never considered?

Conspiracy theory? LOL No, its called COMMON sense pal.
And please stop with the "I played college" basketball stuff. The I know this person, I did that, I know who did this or whatever...is not impressing me to be honest.
I could throw names out that would make your head spin. But it means nothing on here.
You obviously never grew up, or have been involved in the INNER CITY or inner city kids. I have. They want a way out, are looking for a way out. If they have something presented to them, they will take it in a heart beat. And I cant' blame them, having been directly involved and seeing what I have over the years.
So ya, go ahead and BLAME a 17/18yr old over a guy who is FLAT out as "slick/slimy" as they come, with factual associations that are questionable AT best.
Nuff said...done with this.
BTW, Jim O'Brien won his lawsuit for being "unjustly" fired.
And in FACT, the NCAA ruled that O'Brien did in fact cheat, as they would NOT allow another school to hire him without having penalties come down. Do your research ...

centralbucksfan wrote: Some sense? Chose to cheat? You don't know this? This is a kid who came from a not so well off living situation. If he doesn't pass the ACT, he doesn't play basketball that year, at all.
So, someone, an manipulative ADULT at that, approaches a 17,18 year old kid, with his upbringing, with the opportunity to continue to do what he LOVES to do? Tells him its not big deal, everything will work out, etc, etc. and you want to blame it all on the kid?
Wow, some of you will try to twist this anyway you choose, just so NOT put the blame where it should lie, with the ADULTS who instigate things to a YOUNG man, who, probably had NO other choice.

I thought, maybe, for a minute, that you really believed all this stuff about integrity and character. Now you are doing exactly what you called something like "typical youth talk". Now it is, poor Derrick Rose, he couldn't have made his millions if he didn't listen to those manipulative adults. He would still be poor if he didn't cheat, so he is okay, but the adults involved have no integrity or character.

How old were you when you knew that lying is wrong? How old were you when you knew that cheating on a test is wrong? Is it okay for other potentially college bound students to cheat on the ACT if they may not get into the college they want, or do they need to have millions of dollars at stake...or the need to do what they LOVE to do? At what age do people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions? If it is someone else's fault, why don't we go back to blaming the NBA for making Derrick have to try and go to college to begin with?

I'm not saying there weren't other guilty parties. But the ONLY guilty party that has been verified at this point is Derrick Rose. Maybe his road would have been a little more difficult, or maybe he would've had to sacrifice some things (go to Europe for a year?) if he didn't pass. The point is that HE COULDN'T DO WHAT IS EXPECTED SO HE CHEATED. Life is tough and we've all faced decisions between the easy road and the difficult one. You can't talk about integrity and then make excuses for the one person who is known to have not demonstrated any.

centralbucksfan wrote: You obviously never grew up, or have been involved in the INNER CITY or inner city kids. I have. They want a way out, are looking for a way out. If they have something presented to them, they will take it in a heart beat. And I cant' blame them, having been directly involved and seeing what I have over the years.

How do you feel about stealing, murder, etc. for some of those guys whose escape isn't a million dollar basketball contract?

CBF is a moron. Trying to stick his chest out with "guys that would make my head spin". The guy is clueless, yet acts like he was some big time college assistant coach.

And to say I don't know the workings of inner city kids is laughable to me. He doesn't know my background or where I grew up. Or the guys I know. He's some 50 year old man who has lost touch with reality, but is clinging on by the guys he used to know.

To say Derrick Rose was the victim here is proving that he's just clueless. He needs to go out and talk to an 18 year old. They are not as naive as he is. They know what's at stake and how to get around things.



And this common sense he keeps speaking of is the same common sense that the NCAA investigated. I just don't get what he doesn't understand here. The NCAA did an investigation into all the things and more that CBF ever thought of.


I just love how he says he can relate to these inner city kids because of what he's seen, yet he's so out of touch.

enigmaax wrote:

centralbucksfan wrote: You obviously never grew up, or have been involved in the INNER CITY or inner city kids. I have. They want a way out, are looking for a way out. If they have something presented to them, they will take it in a heart beat. And I cant' blame them, having been directly involved and seeing what I have over the years.

How do you feel about stealing, murder, etc. for some of those guys whose escape isn't a million dollar basketball contract?

LOL, apples and oranges. Laughable comparison.

thedynasty1998 wrote: CBF is a moron. Trying to stick his chest out with "guys that would make my head spin". The guy is clueless, yet acts like he was some big time college assistant coach.

And to say I don't know the workings of inner city kids is laughable to me. He doesn't know my background or where I grew up. Or the guys I know. He's some 50 year old man who has lost touch with reality, but is clinging on by the guys he used to know.

To say Derrick Rose was the victim here is proving that he's just clueless. He needs to go out and talk to an 18 year old. They are not as naive as he is. They know what's at stake and how to get around things.



And this common sense he keeps speaking of is the same common sense that the NCAA investigated. I just don't get what he doesn't understand here. The NCAA did an investigation into all the things and more that CBF ever thought of.


I just love how he says he can relate to these inner city kids because of what he's seen, yet he's so out of touch.

LOL, I put my chest out? Your the one, who CONSTANTLY says "OH, I PLAYED BIG TIME D2 BASKETBALL, I KNOW THIS PERSON, I KNOW THAT PERSON yadda yadda yadda.".
Your such a freaking hypocrite, its laughable.
50? Not quite. But certainly old enough to know better, and lived long enough to have 10 times the life experiences, professional experiences that some early 20's know it all has.
Your comments about NCAA and clearing house (one in the same btw you dork!) are comical. You talk out of both sides of your mouth so much, its obvious.
One minute you blame them, the next you say they did their job, and know what they are doing. You went from blaming the NCAA Clearing house, to now blaming Rose. Whatever it takes to argue your point huh?
So, if you think the NCAA did in fact do their job, and know so much...then you obviously agree with them taking away Memphis final four? Which really meant, that the basketball program was in fact, at FAULT, which in its own way, means the HEAD of the bball program was at fault. Hmmmmm..
But does it surprise me that your siding with the ONLY COACH to EVER have 2 final fours vacated.....NO, actually it does not! lol

enigmaax wrote:

centralbucksfan wrote: Some sense? Chose to cheat? You don't know this? This is a kid who came from a not so well off living situation. If he doesn't pass the ACT, he doesn't play basketball that year, at all.
So, someone, an manipulative ADULT at that, approaches a 17,18 year old kid, with his upbringing, with the opportunity to continue to do what he LOVES to do? Tells him its not big deal, everything will work out, etc, etc. and you want to blame it all on the kid?
Wow, some of you will try to twist this anyway you choose, just so NOT put the blame where it should lie, with the ADULTS who instigate things to a YOUNG man, who, probably had NO other choice.

I thought, maybe, for a minute, that you really believed all this stuff about integrity and character. Now you are doing exactly what you called something like "typical youth talk". Now it is, poor Derrick Rose, he couldn't have made his millions if he didn't listen to those manipulative adults. He would still be poor if he didn't cheat, so he is okay, but the adults involved have no integrity or character.

How old were you when you knew that lying is wrong? How old were you when you knew that cheating on a test is wrong? Is it okay for other potentially college bound students to cheat on the ACT if they may not get into the college they want, or do they need to have millions of dollars at stake...or the need to do what they LOVE to do? At what age do people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions? If it is someone else's fault, why don't we go back to blaming the NBA for making Derrick have to try and go to college to begin with?

I'm not saying there weren't other guilty parties. But the ONLY guilty party that has been verified at this point is Derrick Rose. Maybe his road would have been a little more difficult, or maybe he would've had to sacrifice some things (go to Europe for a year?) if he didn't pass. The point is that HE COULDN'T DO WHAT IS EXPECTED SO HE CHEATED. Life is tough and we've all faced decisions between the easy road and the difficult one. You can't talk about integrity and then make excuses for the one person who is known to have not demonstrated any.

No, its not poor Rose. I am all about accountability. But we are talking about someone very young, who hasn't lived long enough to understand certain situations. Compared to ADULTS who CERTAINLY know whats going on. He was certainly PART of it, made a POOR choices. But guess what, 18yr olds make poor choices ALL the time. It is how they learn about life as they move on into adulthood. There is NO excuse for the ADULTS to make poor choices, or those MANINPULATING or trying to manipulate YOUNG people!!

centralbucksfan wrote: No, its not poor Rose. I am all about accountability. But we are talking about someone very young, who hasn't lived long enough to understand certain situations. Compared to ADULTS who CERTAINLY know whats going on. He was certainly PART of it, made a POOR choices. But guess what, 18yr olds make poor choices ALL the time. It is how they learn about life as they move on into adulthood. There is NO excuse for the ADULTS to make poor choices, or those MANINPULATING or trying to manipulate YOUNG people!!

To this extent, I agree. Rose may or may not have ever had enough positive influences in his life to always make great decisions. There's a bit of sympathy or compassion that I might have for a lot of people in the same situation.

I do not agree that this excuses blatantly wrong behavior. Even if not from his direct influences, certainly he'd have been exposed to the moral of the story on lying and cheating by the time he was 18 and though it may be tough to "do the right thing", it was still an option for him. Stealing and murder are extreme examples, but the point is that if you stand by your "what's wrong is wrong" sentiment, you can make excuses for Derrick Rose's decisions. He had a way out - if he cheated. Well, some people who didn't have the option of playing basketball had a way to live and get what they want - steal it. It IS the same concept, just executed in different ways according to the opportunities provided.

Here's the other thing. If it is okay for Derrick Rose to cheat to make it so that he can do what he loves, why isn't it okay for the people who helped him do exactly that? Didn't they help ensure that his talent didn't go to waste and that he got out of the ghetto? He did what he had to do, they did what they had to do to help him. If they hand't helped him, where would he be? So now we could get right back to blaming someone else - the NCAA for not being willing to reduce its standards to help people get out of the ghetto, thus inspiring kids to cheat and adults to help them.

Yes, you put your chest out with saying you know guys that would make my head spin, and how you have hung out in the inner city and understand the thought process of 18 year olds.

I mention my experiences because I have been through the process more recently than you, and I know guys who have went through the processes. I think that gives me some credibility. You claim this expertise, but have never said what that consists of.

Hey dumbass, I know that the clearinghouse is different than the NCAA, but one in the same. Don't insult me with your bullshit. And you proved your age by calling me a dork. Be a little more original next time.

Rose cheated and the NCAA didn't catch him in time. Why is that so hard to understand? Rose is at fault because he cheated. The NCAA is at fault for clearing him and then going back and declaring him ineligible when they had already said he was eligible. Why is that so hard to understand.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but Calipari is not the guy.


Please expain to me how the NCAA can go through their investigation, with lawyers and investigators and not find Calipari at any fault. Yet you want to pin this on him without any evidence. Just becauase you don't like the guy doesn't mean you can defame him.

enigmaax wrote:

centralbucksfan wrote: No, its not poor Rose. I am all about accountability. But we are talking about someone very young, who hasn't lived long enough to understand certain situations. Compared to ADULTS who CERTAINLY know whats going on. He was certainly PART of it, made a POOR choices. But guess what, 18yr olds make poor choices ALL the time. It is how they learn about life as they move on into adulthood. There is NO excuse for the ADULTS to make poor choices, or those MANINPULATING or trying to manipulate YOUNG people!!

To this extent, I agree. Rose may or may not have ever had enough positive influences in his life to always make great decisions. There's a bit of sympathy or compassion that I might have for a lot of people in the same situation.

I do not agree that this excuses blatantly wrong behavior. Even if not from his direct influences, certainly he'd have been exposed to the moral of the story on lying and cheating by the time he was 18 and though it may be tough to "do the right thing", it was still an option for him. Stealing and murder are extreme examples, but the point is that if you stand by your "what's wrong is wrong" sentiment, you can make excuses for Derrick Rose's decisions. He had a way out - if he cheated. Well, some people who didn't have the option of playing basketball had a way to live and get what they want - steal it. It IS the same concept, just executed in different ways according to the opportunities provided.

Here's the other thing. If it is okay for Derrick Rose to cheat to make it so that he can do what he loves, why isn't it okay for the people who helped him do exactly that? Didn't they help ensure that his talent didn't go to waste and that he got out of the ghetto? He did what he had to do, they did what they had to do to help him. If they hand't helped him, where would he be? So now we could get right back to blaming someone else - the NCAA for not being willing to reduce its standards to help people get out of the ghetto, thus inspiring kids to cheat and adults to help them.

Where did I EVER say it was ok? It wasn't. Not making any kind of excuse for Rose. But again, where he grew up, is a complete other world compared to many even have a clue about. And again, we don't know the exact details on the "cheating". We don't know what was presented, what was arranged or how it all went down, etc, etc. So we really don't know Rose involvment, how much, or how little.
But we DO know, it was in fact cheating. We do know that Memphis Mens Basketball program was penalized. And we do know who the head of that program was. Those are the facts.

Yes, those are the facts. So, where is Calipari blamed?

And you are making excuses how he's a kid and adults have corrupted him and gave him a way out.

And where he grew up, where many don't have a clue about, is the same inner city that you understand so well right?

Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth....

centralbucksfan wrote: We don't know what was presented, what was arranged or how it all went down, etc, etc. So we really don't know (INSERT NAME) involvment, how much, or how little.

Exactly.

thedynasty1998 wrote:
I mention my experiences because I have been through the process more recently than you, and I know guys who have went through the processes. I think that gives me some credibility. You claim this expertise, but have never said what that consists of.

Hey dumbass, I know that the clearinghouse is different than the NCAA, but one in the same. Don't insult me with your bullshit. And you proved your age by calling me a dork. Be a little more original next time.

Rose cheated and the NCAA didn't catch him in time. Why is that so hard to understand? Rose is at fault because he cheated. The NCAA is at fault for clearing him and then going back and declaring him ineligible when they had already said he was eligible. Why is that so hard to understand.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but Calipari is not the guy.


Please expain to me how the NCAA can go through their investigation, with lawyers and investigators and not find Calipari at any fault. Yet you want to pin this on him without any evidence. Just becauase you don't like the guy doesn't mean you can defame him.

And as I said, I could sit here and "gloat" as you do about my experience, and who I know...which by your belief, would give me credibility. But you see, I don't feel the NEED to do so because I am not so insecure like you.

BTW, where did the the NCAA ever say Rose cheated? Just as you claim they did not find Calipari at fault, I don't believe they ever said Rose was at fault. Memphis basketball program had to vacate their final four. So, in theory, it was on the basketball program. And who was running that program?