wkfan wrote: Is this 'gem' the same guy whose last two colleges had final four spots vacated due to his actions?

BTW...you will be saying the same thing when UK has to vacate a final four appearance or National Championship.

Those other two schools wouldn't have sniffed a final four without him. And it isn't as though you can just erase the memory of the team from a fan's mind. Personally, I'd rather take my chances on getting to the final four/winning a title (which I think he can do at Kentucky). If it happens and it is later taken away - which will only be in theory or text - I will still have enjoyed the run much more than say, an NIT berth.

Those other two schools wouldn't have sniffed a final four without him.

Actually, Memphis has been a Final Four participant more than once and Calipari had nothing to do with it..

Prescott wrote:

Those other two schools wouldn't have sniffed a final four without him.

Actually, Memphis has been a Final Four participant more than once and Calipari had nothing to do with it..

Yeah, twice. Once in the 70s, once in the 80s (which, incidentally, was also vacated). Since that last appearance, they had a total of seven tourney wins and had two straight losing seasons before Calipari took over. Obviously we don't know for sure what they would've done without him, but Memphis had only been sporadically on the national scene in its entire history, so what is the probability that anyone could've just walked in and taken them to that level?

The "Cal didn't know" defense with regards to Rose would be much more palatable if he didn't turn around and sign Eric Bledsoe, who happened to score a whopping 15 on his ACT the first time he took it. I'm not saying Bledsoe had someone take his ACT for him when he got a higher score, I'm just saying you are playing with fire when you repeatedly go after guys with questionable academic performance and to then play the "I didn't know" card when guys like that do become an issue is extremely weak.

Azubuike24 wrote: Unethical, sure. Illegal, not sure. I'd love to find me something that he has done that has been illegal and he has been directly linked to. I bet we hear about Marcus Camby and the agent and Derrick Rose and the SAT? What else do you have?

He broke rules and got 2 schools places on probation. The NCAA should impose a suspension of the coach to prevent him from going to another NCAA when he gets a school on probation.

Al Bundy wrote: He broke rules

What rules?

RiverRat13 wrote: The "Cal didn't know" defense with regards to Rose would be much more palatable if he didn't turn around and sign Eric Bledsoe, who happened to score a whopping 15 on his ACT the first time he took it. I'm not saying Bledsoe had someone take his ACT for him when he got a higher score, I'm just saying you are playing with fire when you repeatedly go after guys with questionable academic performance and to then play the "I didn't know" card when guys like that do become an issue is extremely weak.

At one point, Bledsoe's possibilities were listed as Florida, UAB, Kentucky, Duke, Baylor, Oregon, Tennessee and Memphis. Rose ended up picking Memphis over Illinois, Kansas, Arizona, and Kentucky. Is the problem that Calipari goes after the same guys other top programs do or that he GETS these guys? Would Coach K be shady if Bledsoe went to Duke? Would Bill Self be the dirtbag if Rose had gone to Kansas?

thedynasty1998 wrote: The last final four wasn't vacated due to Calipari's actions. It was vacated due to Rose's actions. Calipari has not been implicated in any way. Get your facts straight before calling him out. And I'm not positive, but I don't think he was found to be at fault at UMass either.

May not have been implicated...but if you think Cal was in the dark, your mistaken. Your smarter then that . Detroit and Wes...thats all that needs to be said. Cal is the HEAD coach...its starts and stops at the top.

centralbucksfan wrote: May not have been implicated...but if you think Cal was in the dark, your mistaken. Your smarter then that . Detroit and Wes...thats all that needs to be said. Cal is the HEAD coach...its starts and stops at the top.

But he doesn't administer ACTs and he isn't part of the NCAA Clearinghouse. I know you are big on that Wes connection and I'm not going to say there isn't some question as to exactly what kinds of things Calipari could maybe pull off without getting caught. But don't you think if he was "in" on something like this, the NCAA would've at least found enough to at least not (virtually) immediately, completely, and publically clear his name?

I don't think anyone is saying that Calipari isn't knowingly recruiting these kids. However, just to single out Derrick Rose and Eric Bledsoe (amongst others), their situations were INDEPENDENT of John Calipari, his staff and the University that employed him. He might have ended up with the player (Rose at Memphis, Bledsoe at Kentucky), but it's not because he set Rose up to cheat on his SAT, become eligible by the NCAA and then attend Memphis.

What isn't being reported by most of the national media (Jimmy Dykes is the only major on-air personality or writer who has presented this side of the Rose/Memphis story) is that every issue Derrick Rose had occurred in high school, prior to an official relationship with John Calipari or the University of Memphis. Sure, he was recruited by Calipari and Memphis, but he was also recruited by dozens of other schools, who all assumed that if he was cleared by the NCAA, that everything checked out and he could participate for their school.

This is why the whole thing is a crock. Not only is Calipari being blamed for a situation which he had no control over, he is being singled out for acting in the same manner than dozens of other coaches/schools would have. The real loser in this is Memphis, who is being penalized for making an assumption about a player's eligibility (and that the NCAA's clearance is valid) that schools make every year.

To be honest, I'm not sure what else those involved could have done to prevent the situation. The only answer is to simply not recruit players with ANY issue...and at the highest level, that puts you at a disadvantage because your biggest rivals on the national stage are doing so.

enigmaax wrote:

centralbucksfan wrote: May not have been implicated...but if you think Cal was in the dark, your mistaken. Your smarter then that . Detroit and Wes...thats all that needs to be said. Cal is the HEAD coach...its starts and stops at the top.

But he doesn't administer ACTs and he isn't part of the NCAA Clearinghouse. I know you are big on that Wes connection and I'm not going to say there isn't some question as to exactly what kinds of things Calipari could maybe pull off without getting caught. But don't you think if he was "in" on something like this, the NCAA would've at least found enough to at least not (virtually) immediately, completely, and publically clear his name?

Your right, he isn't part of the NCAA or the Clearing house. But don't you find it a bit ironic that a Chicago kid went all the way to Detroit to take an ACT? WHich also, coincedentally, happens to be where Wes is?
Sorry, too many coincedences involved to clear this situation.
And no, I don't think so. I personally know of another athlete who cheated/had someone take his ACT. The kid jumped from a 12 to mid 20's. The ACT didn't red flag it until MONTHS later. Not making up excuses, but we are talking about a national test that thousands of kids across the country take on any given Sat. This was done in June, results back in July. It takes time to nail something like this down.

Well then the Clearinghouse needs to become more efficient. I just don't understand people blaming Calipari for the Rose situation. It was my understanding that he took and passed the ACT before he had even committed to a school yet.

If Calipari said, "Derrick, I appreciate you getting your ACT in line and I understand the NCAA cleared you, but I'm going to make you sit this one out because I think the Clearinghouse made a mistake." What is the reaction then?

It's just beyond me that a school can get penalized for something that the NCAA dropped the ball on. If there was any suspicion they should have made it known and expedited the process. We're not talking about a swimmer at Denison University. We are talking about one of the biggest recruits of the year.

So if none of this is Cal's fault. Is it merely a coincidence that he left 2 schools within a year of getting them put on probation? Once, maybe. Twice, he is an a-hole!!

thedynasty1998 wrote: Well then the Clearinghouse needs to become more efficient. I just don't understand people blaming Calipari for the Rose situation. It was my understanding that he took and passed the ACT before he had even committed to a school yet.

He took the ACT in June. Up until that time, he hadn't qualified. Results were not back until July. I am sure he was already commited to Memphis at this time, probably on campus working out. As far as the "blame" to Cal....do you think its just a coincedence that he went to Chicago, "supposedly" took the ACT...the home town of Cal buddy WWS? Why would a kid, from Chicago, travel all the way to Detroit to take the ACT? Do you understand how many local places offered the ACT in the Chicago area? lol
Is this all coming together yet for you or do we need to SPELL it out? If you don't think Cal wasn't aware of what was going on with his TOP BLUE CHIP recruit...then you are choosing not to get it.
As far as clearinghouse is concerned...what you fail to understand, is as I mentioned above. Something like that doesn't happen overnite. Athletes are NOT given preferential treatment over any other potential college student taking that test. On any given Sat. thousands of students are taking this. It does take time to process, then takes time to red flag a test. The clearinghouse would have cleared Rose, based on his GPA and core credits...ONLY waiting on ACT results. Once the ACT results come back, if the score was what it was....then the clearinghouse is going to give the OK. Its NOT the clearinghouse responsibility to red flag a score. Its ACT, and as mentioned above, its a process, and one that isn't going to happen overnite when you have thousands of test to process, many that are potential red flags. It probably would have been late fall before this was brought to NCAA attention...then of course an investigation starts.

september63 wrote: So if none of this is Cal's fault. Is it merely a coincidence that he left 2 schools within a year of getting them put on probation? Once, maybe. Twice, he is an a-hole!!

So the NBA and perhaps the greatest college basketball program of all time must've been in on it too. They each offered Calipari a job right before his school was put on probation. Or maybe those choices had nothing to do with leaving mid-major programs.

thedynasty1998 wrote: If Calipari said, "Derrick, I appreciate you getting your ACT in line and I understand the NCAA cleared you, but I'm going to make you sit this one out because I think the Clearinghouse made a mistake." What is the reaction then?

There are people out there who actually want him to do this. It would be the only way they believe he wouldn't be "cheating." Of course, we all know what would happen in this situation.

Said coach passes on said player because it's "morally right" and another coach, hmm...Jim Calhoun, Bill Self, Roy Williams (if I recall, none have a squeaky clean resume either) would recruit said player, sign him and most of the time (we can agree the Rose thing was the exception rather than the rule) the player is cleared and stars for another national power.

Are people really naive enough to actually believe coaches should avoid ANY student athlete that has ANY questionable academic trouble? If so, then numerous kids each year and some of the best to ever play in college should've never gotten scholarship offers.

Like I said, then the clearinghouse needs to get more efficient. Don't act like the clearinghouse isn't at fault. They should have a system in place that immediately red flags potential cheaters. I know of a guy who scored significantly lower the second time he took it because he had already been accepted to the college of his choice. Within a month he had the NCAA calling and he had to retake it.

Was something shady going on? Absolutely. But who knows why he took it in Detroit? He might have been traveling. Maybe they offered it the day he wanted to take it. He could have cheated anywhere, the location doesn't imply Calipari.

For the Calipari and Kentucky haters out there, lets also realize a few things.

A) John Calipari will be under the microscope more than any college coach in recent memory. If the guy breathes the same oxygen as a recruit during a non-contact period someone will report it. If the guy cheats at UK and breaks NCAA rules, he WILL get caught. The debate is whether or not he is actually cheating. The NCAA has investigated his relationship with WWW, as well as many other AAU/coach relationships and until it's ruled illegal, then Calipari isn't cheating. He might be operating on a slippery slope, but so is just about every top notch coach.

B) Kentucky has a long history of trouble with the NCAA. It's a shameful thing, and if you ask most alumni, fans and others connected to the program, the thing they fear most is going through something like Indiana just went through, or what happened to them in the late 80's. Because of this, Kentucky (and specifically, basketball operations) has one of the best compliance departments in the country. There is absolutely no way they would've hired Cal if they believed he would tarnish the program down the road. That doesn't mean they aren't aware of some of his tactics that others believe are shady, but I believe it DOES mean those things won't cause the program trouble. Again, if you want to say the University has no values or morals, fine...that's not the same as condoning cheating.

As I said, neither of these 2 points makes him innocent of any wrongdoing or shady business, but there is a difference between operating in the gray and flat out cheating. Most people like to refer to him as the latter, and it's wrong. There is absolutely no evidence to support it. You might not like how he does business, but that's probably not because of what he's doing. It's most likely because he does it AND wins.

Azubuike24 wrote: For the Calipari and Kentucky haters out there, lets also realize a few things.

A) John Calipari will be under the microscope more than any college coach in recent memory. If the guy breathes the same oxygen as a recruit during a non-contact period someone will report it. If the guy cheats at UK and breaks NCAA rules, he WILL get caught. The debate is whether or not he is actually cheating. The NCAA has investigated his relationship with WWW, as well as many other AAU/coach relationships and until it's ruled illegal, then Calipari isn't cheating. He might be operating on a slippery slope, but so is just about every top notch coach.

B) Kentucky has a long history of trouble with the NCAA. It's a shameful thing, and if you ask most alumni, fans and others connected to the program, the thing they fear most is going through something like Indiana just went through, or what happened to them in the late 80's. Because of this, Kentucky (and specifically, basketball operations) has one of the best compliance departments in the country. There is absolutely no way they would've hired Cal if they believed he would tarnish the program down the road. That doesn't mean they aren't aware of some of his tactics that others believe are shady, but I believe it DOES mean those things won't cause the program trouble. Again, if you want to say the University has no values or morals, fine...that's not the same as condoning cheating.

As I said, neither of these 2 points makes him innocent of any wrongdoing or shady business, but there is a difference between operating in the gray and flat out cheating. Most people like to refer to him as the latter, and it's wrong. There is absolutely no evidence to support it. You might not like how he does business, but that's probably not because of what he's doing. It's most likely because he does it AND wins.

Please just stop, seriously. And get over the "hating" crap as well. Now you sound like freaking ND football fans!
Cal is what he is, and he has BROUGHT it on himself. He has NO ONE to blame, but himself. He made choices to be associated with the people he is. Ever hear of guilty by association? Tell kids this all the time. Its a CHOICE.
There is NO other coach in the history of college basketball, that has had 2 final fours vacated. That is FACT.
Has he been caught red handed? Not really. But those two, speak VOLUMES. OJ and MANY others were never proven guilty either...but most certainly know he was guilty without question.
Bottom line, IMO, Cal is smart enough (or stupid maybe), to stay directly out of what goes on behind the scenes. Similar to John Wooden while at UCLA. He may not be directly involved, but I have believe, without question, the KNOWS or KNEW what went on. Thats what I believe in.
As for the hate again...I could care less one way or the other about UK. I certainly don't hate them. What I can't stand, are coaches who cheat, period. Simple as that. If you have followed my posts on JJ...I was very critical of O'Brien, and very supportive of OSU and Geiger for doign what they did when many thought they shouldn't have done what they did, fire him on the spot.
So believe what you will, thats what its all about for me. That is why Bobby Knight is my all time favoriate coach because I truely believe, without question, that he did it the right way.

Dynasty, you obviously don't understand how the Clearinghouse works and obviously want to support an obvious cheater...for what reason, I have no idea. Cal is what he is...and most would agree with that. We all know there are many things that are not right with the NCAA on how they go about their buisiness. But until its changed, it is what it is.

The blame must go to the NCAA, not those who exploit their rules and regulations. How hard is that to understand? It just bothers me when the media decides to run down a program or school because of this. I could care less if they investigate and dig dirt up on Calipari until the world ends. Just report it for what it is. The drama about him running off players, recruiting suspect characters, etc...really paints the university in a bad light, and most people, who are NOT informed like the majority of us posting here simply hear the words "Kentucky" and "dirty" and the negativity spreads. Now I understand the media wants to get ratings, and attaching this stuff with the major schools in certain sports will do that, but it's just amazing how many people use vague words and terms when talking about this stuff.

One more question for the masses though. I do believe Memphis is going to win their appeal, and eventually, their Final Four will be re-instated. Will we have a 2-day media frenzy taking back everything they reported about Calipari and how "he cheated at Memphis?" I don't think so. I guess I don't know why I battle with this haha. It's just not worth it. Lets just watch bball!

I've been through the Clearinghouse and know someone that works for the NCAA doing the processing (mainly international students). She tells me how bad they are understaffed. She tells me that the Derrick Rose fiasco could have, and should have, been easily avoided. I appreciate you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about; but I do.

And I actually have met Calipari and spent time with him. I knew a coach on his staff at Memphis and spent a long weekend with them. I know moreso than you how he operates and not everything is on the up and up. But it isn't something that doesn't happen everywhere else across the country.


You obviously find him at fault. I personally do not. We will agree to disagree, but there is a reason why the NCAA cleared him of any wrongdoing, and that's because they investigated the situation, and you didn't. You can have all your conspiracy theories you want, and the NCAA has certanily thought them all up as well, but after an investigation the NCAA cleared him and they know what happened far more than you pretend to.

Sugarcoat this all you want. He left 2 schools picking up the pieces from "alleged" misdoings by him, or his staff!! One time, I might give him the benefit of doubt. Two times, he is guilty of something. If nothing else, stupidity!!

That's the thing though. Memphis isn't picking up the pieces because of Calipari. People ASSUME that because he was the head coach.

If a company goes in the tank because of an accounting scandal, would you blame the recently departed V.P. of human resources for the problem just because he might be the figurehead for the company? Of course not...

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand. He played Rose, just like a dozen other coaches who recruited him would have. The NCAA, who can't penalize Rose once he loses his amateur status, punishes the next closest thing, the school he participated for. If at any point in time wanted to nail Rose's coach for some wrongdoing, they could. Afterall, he is still sanctioned by the NCAA, so he needs them for employment to this day. How is this so difficult to understand?

The UMass situation I won't debate. I think there was a lot more to that than people say, and Calipari kind of got off the hook there. However, the Memphis thing isn't about him at all. He was not even named in the investigation! You would figure if this guy was so guilty, he would've at least been part of the suit.

Bob Knight hit the nail on the head a few weeks ago when he questioned why coaches like Calipari leave programs with multiple sanctions and face little repercussions. Its also bull shit that kids have to pay for the things that a previous coach did to fuck up their program. I'm guaranteeing something will go wrong eventually with him at UK and all the UK fans will be bitching about how bad of a hire he was and how he ruined their "storied" program.

Blame it on the NCAA, blame it on the Clearinghouse....typical youth speaking these day. Its everyone elses fault except for the person who is actually instigating the dirty deed. Sorry, I don't but that shit for a second. Just because you "can" get around the rules, certainly does NOT make it right to do!! What happened to integrity, character, etc, etc....
I'll go with Bob Knight who just spoke about the lack of the integrity in the game, and a guy who is aloud to coach basketball in KY who has had two final fours vacated. I think Knight knows what the hell he is talking about.