ZWICK 4 PREZ;1778202 wrote:What do you want him to do exactly ? He's not a great shooter. He doesn't get the touches. Neither of those 2 go hand in hand with being "clutch".

What do I want him to do? MAKE A FUCKING CLUTCH SHOT

Commander of Awesome;1778203 wrote:What about love when lbj sits? Impact still isn't there

What do you want him to do exactly?

SportsAndLady;1778182 wrote:They didn't disappear but there's a big difference in dropping those numbers on a shitty team where you're not only the #1 option but your team is so shitty you are basically playing to pack your stats and get paid, and dropping those numbers on a top 5 team who's expectations are to win the NBA championship. It's apparent love cannot deal with the pressure. It's probably the reason he usually disappears in the fourth quarter and is about as non-clutch as it gets.

Exactly been my point, your numbers are going to fall when you're used to getting the most shots, and touches on your team, and suddenly you become the 4th option most nights, and they plant you at the 3pt line so that your Rebounding numbers suffer.

You constantly bring up Love's numbers in the 4th quarter or big games, but next time the Cavs play, I want you to see how many times he's getting the ball in a good position to do anything. He's not a JR, type player who is almost selfish, he will make the correct basketball play and give it up to an open man, and never get it back. The last two games, I believe he's got 3 shots in the final quarter, and almost all his touches have been from 3pt land.

I know you guys think I'm a blind love Support, but I do see his flaws and they are on defense assuredly, but on Offense he's being misused to the point where it's almost comical. We've seen recently what happens recently when we play him closer to th basket (Nets/clippers) and I think that is what we could expect to see most nights.

Commander of Awesome;1778203 wrote:What about love when lbj sits? Impact still isn't there

Does the offense suddenly become Kevin Love centric when LBJ sits? Or does it not really change? Hint.. it doesn't change because the Cavs are fine with Love playing in this position. Is it his optimal position? Of course not. But he hits enough from outside that you're not changing up an offense for Kevin Love. People expect max players to be ALL-NBA players. Bosh got the same shit in Miami.. He's done just fine in Miami with LeBron and post-LeBron.

SportsAndLady;1778206 wrote:What do you want him to do exactly?

Not be invisible out there. When I watch the Cavs I have to double check that he's still playing (esp in the 2nd half). Most of the time I notice him its when he gets pwned on def, or misses a shot. His highlight reel for the season is throwing TD passes to LBJ. I notice Delly/TT/Shump significantly more than Love and would say those guys mentioned are more important to our success than Love is. That ain't all on coaching is all I'm saying.

SportsAndLady;1778205 wrote:What do I want him to do? MAKE A FUCKING CLUTCH SHOT

of course. be clutch. that should be in the contracts of every NBA player.. be clutch! you dunce.

Commander of Awesome;1778203 wrote:What about love when lbj sits? Impact still isn't there

Kyrie, and LBJ are essentially the same player and almost always on is in the game. Love has to be given the ball on a position to succeed unless you'd want him trying to play like a guard and take people off the dribble, which I think we can all admit would be a bad idea.

Who exactly would you rather see taking Loves minutes?

Commander of Awesome;1778209 wrote:Not be invisible out there. When I watch the Cavs I have to double check that he's still playing (esp in the 2nd half). Most of the time I notice him its when he gets pwned on def, or misses a shot. His highlight reel for the season is throwing TD passes to LBJ. I notice Delly/TT/Shump significantly more than Love and would say those guys mentioned are more important to our success than Love is. That ain't all on coaching is all I'm saying.

I was making fun of zwick. Should have added a /Zwick'd at the end of that post.

Commander of Awesome;1778209 wrote:Not be invisible out there. When I watch the Cavs I have to double check that he's still playing (esp in the 2nd half). Most of the time I notice him its when he gets pwned on def, or misses a shot. His highlight reel for the season is throwing TD passes to LBJ. I notice Delly/TT/Shump significantly more than Love and would say those guys mentioned are more important to our success than Love is. That ain't all on coaching is all I'm saying.

2 guards, and a guy playing 3 feet from the basket, yeah I expect you would see them more in our slash/kick offense which comes out in the 4th quarter.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1778210 wrote:of course. be clutch. that should be in the contracts of every NBA player.. be clutch! you dunce.

I think making meaningful shots in big games is something NBA players are judged on. It may not be in their contracts but you're full of shit if you don't think that's something that is measured in players. You dunce

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1778208 wrote:Does the offense suddenly become Kevin Love centric when LBJ sits? Or does it not really change? Hint.. it doesn't change because the Cavs are fine with Love playing in this position. Is it his optimal position? Of course not. But he hits enough from outside that you're not changing up an offense for Kevin Love. People expect max players to be ALL-NBA players. Bosh got the same shit in Miami.. He's done just fine in Miami with LeBron and post-LeBron.

I understand what you're getting at, and I recall the Bosh is having trouble adjusting storylines. Didn't watch enough Heat games then to have a counter argument, nor do I have enough time to dig into the Advanced Stats comparing Yr 2 for both players.

Regardless, just bc Bosh had a similar stat line reduction, doesn't mean that Love is a top 10 player. Neither is a top 10 player IMO, and I think Bosh is a better player than Love. I expected more out of Love, and he's not having the impact I thought he would. I knew his stat line would take a hit, that is not the point of my argument.

HighRoller74;1778207 wrote:Exactly been my point, your numbers are going to fall when you're used to getting the most shots, and touches on your team, and suddenly you become the 4th option most nights, and they plant you at the 3pt line so that your Rebounding numbers suffer.

You constantly bring up Love's numbers in the 4th quarter or big games, but next time the Cavs play, I want you to see how many times he's getting the ball in a good position to do anything. He's not a JR, type player who is almost selfish, he will make the correct basketball play and give it up to an open man, and never get it back. The last two games, I believe he's got 3 shots in the final quarter, and almost all his touches have been from 3pt land.

I know you guys think I'm a blind love Support, but I do see his flaws and they are on defense assuredly, but on Offense he's being misused to the point where it's almost comical. We've seen recently what happens recently when we play him closer to th basket (Nets/clippers) and I think that is what we could expect to see most nights.

I do?

SportsAndLady;1778215 wrote:I think making meaningful shots in big games is something NBA players are judged on. It may not be in their contracts but you're full of shit if you don't think that's something that is measured in players. You dunce

Great logic. So should we waive LeBron now? His clutch factor in meaningful shots in meaningful games is pretty horrible. Or should we not look at something as inane as clutch factor and look at what they actually bring to the table?

You really never cease to amaze me lol

Commander of Awesome;1778217 wrote:I do?

Didn't quote you

Commander of Awesome;1778216 wrote:I understand what you're getting at, and I recall the Bosh is having trouble adjusting storylines. Didn't watch enough Heat games then to have a counter argument, nor do I have enough time to dig into the Advanced Stats comparing Yr 2 for both players.

Regardless, just bc Bosh had a similar stat line reduction, doesn't mean that Love is a top 10 player. Neither is a top 10 player IMO, and I think Bosh is a better player than Love. I expected more out of Love, and he's not having the impact I thought he would. I knew his stat line would take a hit, that is not the point of my argument.

I'd definitely take Bosh any day of the week over Love (maybe not in 2016 but in their prime). But they're similar players... have similar roles with Lebron.

And I take back my comment about Love being top 10, because he's not. I was just responding to your claim of top 10. He is probably top 20 though. And there's not really anyone else in the league, especially who's available, i'd switch with Love.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1778218 wrote:Great logic. So should we waive LeBron now? His clutch factor in meaningful shots in meaningful games is pretty horrible. Or should we not look at something as inane as clutch factor and look at what they actually bring to the table?

You really never cease to amaze me lol

Wait so Lebron isn't clutch now? LOL

He may not have great numbers in clutch time, but he's hit more game winning shots in big games than Kevin love could even dream about.

SportsAndLady;1778224 wrote:Wait so Lebron isn't clutch now? LOL

He may not have great numbers in clutch time, but he's hit more game winning shots in big games than Kevin love could even dream about.

Oh I think Lebron is very "clutch". He's just known to miss a lot of "meaningful shots in meaningful games".

or in other words.. its an extremely retarded way of judging someone.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1778225 wrote:Oh I think Lebron is very "clutch". He's just known to miss a lot of "meaningful shots in meaningful games".

or in other words.. its an extremely retarded way of judging someone.

But he also makes a ton. MJ missed a ton of game winners, is he also not clutch?

SportsAndLady;1778226 wrote:But he also makes a ton. MJ missed a ton of game winners, is he also not clutch?

of course he was "clutch".. you're missing the point that its an idiotic way of judging someone's talent by how often they're hitting big baskets.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1778227 wrote:of course he was "clutch".. you're missing the point that its an idiotic way of judging someone's talent by how often they're hitting big baskets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Catch_%28American_football%29


ppl have built careers on clutch catches/shots

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1778227 wrote:of course he was "clutch".. you're missing the point that its an idiotic way of judging someone's talent by how often they're hitting big baskets.

It's not the sole judgment of how good a player is zwick. It certainly goes into it though. One of the many variables.

You kept asking what I wanted him to do. I would like him to show up in the fourth quarter of a big game and hit some clutch shots.

Commander of Awesome;1778228 wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Catch_%28American_football%29


ppl have built careers on clutch catches/shots

Lol David Tyree is a terrible example of someone building a career off a clutch catch/shot his career basically was over a year after this game.

SportsAndLady;1778229 wrote:It's not the sole judgment of how good a player is zwick. It certainly goes into it though. One of the many variables.

You kept asking what I wanted him to do. I would like him to show up in the fourth quarter of a big game and hit some clutch shots.

ok.. so like I asked earlier.. who would you like to replace him?