rydawg5;1693502 wrote:I don't like biggio making it. He was above average for a dozen years but never great. I think greatness should make HOF. I think a GREAT player for 5 years > Good player for 20.

Different sport, but I use this same argument for people who try to say Hines Ward is a hofer. I don't think there was a time in his career where he was considered one of the best 5 WRs in a given season. As for Biggio I disagree with you. He has multiple golden gloves and silver slugger awards, which would indicate he was the best at his position offensively and defensively multiple times in his career. Top that off with 3k hits, and he is a hofer.

HitsRus;1693508 wrote:My favorite Randy Johnson moment

[video][/video]

God I loved him.

Biggio is, IMO, the best 2B of the 90s. Not a top 10 player in the sport ever, but top at his position for sure.

I put Alomar above him...decent bit

I'm bummed that Mattingly missed again, and for the last time. I hate the Yankees, but he is one of my favorite baseball players of all time.

like_that;1693513 wrote:Different sport, but I use this same argument for people who try to say Hines Ward is a hofer. I don't think there was a time in his career where he was considered one of the best 5 WRs in a given season. As for Biggio I disagree with you. He has multiple golden gloves and silver slugger awards, which would indicate he was the best at his position offensively and defensively multiple times in his career. Top that off with 3k hits, and he is a hofer.

In fairness....he was a Super Bowl MVP which counts like a WS MVP.

As a biased Steelers fan....I've always thought Ward was borderline but I think the 2 SB and 1 MVP eventually gets him in.....but if he doesn't get in quickly his numbers won't be as impressive as WR numbers are going crazy and will for the foreseeable future.....kind of like PED and other factors led to huge offensive numbers messing up the "history" of it

I'll be shocked if a 3,000 hit player (assumed clean) doesn't make it

Ironman92;1693544 wrote:I put Alomar above him...decent bit

Lol, yeah. NL 2B. Should've clarified.

Laley23;1693552 wrote:Lol, yeah. NL 2B. Should've clarified.

See....it sounds good "best NL 2nd baseman of a decade"....but there wasn't much there.

I get way more out of 3,000 hits and 1850 runs scored.

Ironman92;1693560 wrote:See....it sounds good "best NL 2nd baseman of a decade"....but there wasn't much there.

I get way more out of 3,000 hits and 1850 runs scored.

I don't think Biggio was anywhere close to Sandberg, but I also don't think Biggio is significantly better than Whitaker.

Sonofanump;1693581 wrote:I don't think Biggio was anywhere close to Sandberg, but I also don't think Biggio is significantly better than Whitaker.

Sandberg was better in the 80's

Ironman92;1693587 wrote:Sandberg was better in the 80's

Once you start thinking about it, if Whitaker is not a HOF, then neither should Biggio.

Sonofanump;1693591 wrote:Once you start thinking about it, if Whitaker is not a HOF, then neither should Biggio.

Nope, not for me....Trammel above Sweet Lou

Ironman92;1693596 wrote:Trammel above Sweet Lou

I agree.

Whitaker's last few years had some of his top OPS+...in partial seasons but still.

Only once top 12 MVP....only once top 20

Great player, loved him and Trammell with Parrish, Gibson etc

Not a big fan of Smoltz getting in.

Maybe if Trammel had done some back flips......

Ironman92;1693550 wrote:In fairness....he was a Super Bowl MVP which counts like a WS MVP.

As a biased Steelers fan....I've always thought Ward was borderline but I think the 2 SB and 1 MVP eventually gets him in.....but if he doesn't get in quickly his numbers won't be as impressive as WR numbers are going crazy and will for the foreseeable future.....kind of like PED and other factors led to huge offensive numbers messing up the "history" of it

I'll be shocked if a 3,000 hit player (assumed clean) doesn't make it

Agreed about Ward. I wonder myself but then I look at the numbers....top ten in receptions, 1000 to be exact, so he caught the ball and also was not afraid to block. He is 15th in receiving TD's.
SB MVP in itself isnt a reason someone should be in the HoF, but when you also put it with his other stats it does help.

It took Cris Carter a very long time to get in and he was much, much better than Ward.

HW was only a few yards away from Rushing, receiving and passing for 1000 yards in each category while in college. He slipped in the draft when teams found out he had no ACL in one of his knees.


I could look but how many guys with 3k+ hits are not in and dont have a scandal attached to them?
I look at it this way.....200 hits in a season is great. 3k hits in s like 15 seasons with that many....amazing.

thavoice;1694046 wrote:Agreed about Ward. I wonder myself but then I look at the numbers....top ten in receptions, 1000 to be exact, so he caught the ball and also was not afraid to block. He is 15th in receiving TD's.
SB MVP in itself isnt a reason someone should be in the HoF, but when you also put it with his other stats it does help.

It took Cris Carter a very long time to get in and he was much, much better than Ward.

HW was only a few yards away from Rushing, receiving and passing for 1000 yards in each category while in college. He slipped in the draft when teams found out he had no ACL in one of his knees.


I could look but how many guys with 3k+ hits are not in and dont have a scandal attached to them?
I look at it this way.....200 hits in a season is great. 3k hits in s like 15 seasons with that many....amazing.

Before the huge offensive push due to teh cheetz no one over 2775 hits was out of the HOF

IMO Harold Baines with around 2850 hits should be the highest clean total not in the HOF

Good read....and the comparison to Ortiz is good

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=jayson-stark&id=1051&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FZ16lQ9R9Rz%22%7D

^^^That is a good read...thanks for posting.

I've always thought that.....Delgado had ridiculous seasons and several very good ones right smack in the middle of the steroid era. I believe he is in the same steroid boat as Ortiz.....Ortiz has the postseason heroics and Delgado actually wore a glove.

Randy Johnson going in as a D'Back. He won a WS and 4 CYA with them, so it is no surprise...but, to me, he is always going to be a Mariner. Dont know why, he was with Arizona as long. Just always picture him as a Mariner.

Laley23;1696988 wrote:Randy Johnson going in as a D'Back. He won a WS and 4 CYA with them, so it is no surprise...but, to me, he is always going to be a Mariner. Dont know why, he was with Arizona as long. Just always picture him as a Mariner.

Because we (Cleveland) faced him when he was a Mariner. Didn't really face him when he was a D-Back.

My Zona friends are happy he'll be wearing their hat.

lhslep134;1696996 wrote:Because we (Cleveland) faced him when he was a Mariner. Didn't really face him when he was a D-Back.

My Zona friends are happy he'll be wearing their hat.

I watched him a TON more with Arizona though. As far as TV goes.

I think it is more because he made his name with Seattle. Unless you spend a ton more time with another team, I usually picture a player with their first team. First impression kind of thing.

Not HoF related, but I saw the White Sox are retiring Konerko's number.
Think of the sluggers out there the reds had....Dunn, Konerko, EE, Hamilton, all playing the same time!