If the state would move soccer to a spring sport would we see an increase in numbers for football programs across the state? I think at small schools that are already pinched for numbers simply because of class size, it would help.
Small schools that have soccer, cross country, golf, band, and football in the fall...that stretches the numbers pretty thin. Especially in small schools where there may only be 125 boys in the entire school.

Thoughts?

There are other sports than football. I know it's crazy to think about that. High school football is fine, but they aren't just going to move a sport because you need numbers lol

Old Rider;1654776 wrote:If the state would move soccer to a spring sport would we see an increase in numbers for football programs across the state? I think at small schools that are already pinched for numbers simply because of class size, it would help.
Small schools that have soccer, cross country, golf, band, and football in the fall...that stretches the numbers pretty thin. Especially in small schools where there may only be 125 boys in the entire school.

Thoughts?

No. Football numbers are down because kids don't want to work for anything anymore. Moving soccer to spring would mean less numbers for track and baseball.

Old Rider;1654776 wrote:If the state would move soccer to a spring sport would we see an increase in numbers for football programs across the state? I think at small schools that are already pinched for numbers simply because of class size, it would help.
Small schools that have soccer, cross country, golf, band, and football in the fall...that stretches the numbers pretty thin. Especially in small schools where there may only be 125 boys in the entire school.

Thoughts?

Do small schools like that even have a soccer and football team? In our league there is just one boys soccer team and that is at the smallest school and they never have had football. We are one of the bigger schools and have 50 boys/grade, give or take, each year.
From what I know, some of those smaller schools have soccer because they are just too small for football

ernest_t_bass;1654794 wrote:No. Football numbers are down because kids don't want to work for anything anymore. Moving soccer to spring would mean less numbers for track and baseball.

But football is more important to schools because of gate money. So if you are going to pick which sport to shortfall, football is not a wise choice. At our small school, football is the only sport that actually comes out in the black. I think the exception was 1 year when girl's basketball made it to the state final four.

If gate money is no object, then that argument is moot. But I don't know of money schools that have so much money in the athletic funds that it doesn't matter.

thavoice;1654806 wrote:Do small schools like that even have a soccer and football team?

Yes they do.

Old Rider....

Without naming names.... Do we currently have kids on soccer teams that would be a contributing factor on Friday nights? Honestly asking.

IMHO, there are a number of variables that are influencing the numbers (especially in our town). Soccer is probably one of them, a lack of strong influences at home, huge shift in employment opportunities within the town, pee wee and the general beating our kids are taking now in middle school.......

I was also thinking the other day about how "everyone went out for football when I we were younger"? ya know what, that just isn't the case anymore for ALL KINDS of reasons. I was talking to a coach at Maurice Clarrett's football camp a month or so ago and he shared some interesting info. He said they have a "few" coaches who are tasked with building a data base of names, e-mails and home addresses of the parents and kids that come up through their flag and pee wee leagues. They actually go out to games and look for these kids and their parents from time to time and year to year.... If they don't see a kid or parent that they saw in a previous year they call them, stop by the house, e-mail... Whatever to see why "Johnny" isn't playing or what they can do to help? Our assumption that kids "are just going to go out" is no longer the case. Schools may want to consider being a little more active in the process of attracting kids to the high school program? Now the above idea may be overkill but the school is not "much" larger than our old high school and they have 50 to 75 kids EVERY YEAR!!! Some of us may need to change our approach? And not just talk about it but put a system in place to help? Can't manage what you can't measure.... Just a convo that really got me thinking????

Every kid wants to be a part of something special? Teach them that it is and that the men involved in the football program think they are worth a home visit or a call???

sanitizer;1654839 wrote:Old Rider....

Without naming names.... Do we currently have kids on soccer teams that would be a contributing factor on Friday nights? Honestly asking.

IMHO, there are a number of variables that are influencing the numbers (especially in our town). Soccer is probably one of them, a lack of strong influences at home, huge shift in employment opportunities within the town, pee wee and the general beating our kids are taking now in middle school.......

I was also thinking the other day about how "everyone went out for football when I we were younger"? ya know what, that just isn't the case anymore for ALL KINDS of reasons. I was talking to a coach at Maurice Clarrett's football camp a month or so ago and he shared some interesting info. He said they have a "few" coaches who are tasked with building a data base of names, e-mails and home addresses of the parents and kids that come up through their flag and pee wee leagues. They actually go out to games and look for these kids and their parents from time to time and year to year.... If they don't see a kid or parent that they saw in a previous year they call them, stop by the house, e-mail... Whatever to see why "Johnny" isn't playing or what they can do to help? Our assumption that kids "are just going to go out" is no longer the case. Schools may want to consider being a little more active in the process of attracting kids to the high school program? Now the above idea may be overkill but the school is not "much" larger than our old high school and they have 50 to 75 kids EVERY YEAR!!! Some of us may need to change our approach? And not just talk about it but put a system in place to help? Can't manage what you can't measure.... Just a convo that really got me thinking????

Every kid wants to be a part of something special? Teach them that it is and that the men involved in the football program think they are worth a home visit or a call???

I've been saying that to people as well. Football has been the one sport that usually hasn't had to work to get numbers. Times have changed. Head football coaches need to work to sell their sport like any other coaches now. If organized and operated properly, there is no reason to think that a school like Orrville can't have 50-60 kids out for football in the near future. Ditto for other schools of similar size.

WebFire;1654828 wrote:Yes they do.

Any idea how many DV-DVII football teams that also have boys soccer in HS?

WebFire;1654827 wrote:But football is more important to schools because of gate money. So if you are going to pick which sport to shortfall, football is not a wise choice. At our small school, football is the only sport that actually comes out in the black. I think the exception was 1 year when girl's basketball made it to the state final four.

If gate money is no object, then that argument is moot. But I don't know of money schools that have so much money in the athletic funds that it doesn't matter.

To be clear you should look at your school's gate money from varsity football minus the costs to have the football program vs the varsity soccer gate money minus the costs for soccer and see what the difference is.

An-Old-Fan;1654867 wrote:To be clear you should look at your school's gate money from varsity football minus the costs to have the football program vs the varsity soccer gate money minus the costs for soccer and see what the difference is.

Good point.
Some places dont draw much at all and cannot do all the great with their football revenue. We usually have very good attendance at our games which in turns makes the school money, the band boosters money (concessions) and the booster club for the 50/50 that is always over $1,000 and gets as high as 3-4K in the right matchups.
but I recall the days when the team was terrible and they had to lose $$$ on the program one would think.

Old Rider;1654776 wrote:If the state would move soccer to a spring sport would we see an increase in numbers for football programs across the state? I think at small schools that are already pinched for numbers simply because of class size, it would help.
Small schools that have soccer, cross country, golf, band, and football in the fall...that stretches the numbers pretty thin. Especially in small schools where there may only be 125 boys in the entire school.

Thoughts?

Many schools with less than 125 boys do not have both sports. Even a smaller school like Orrville has almost 250 boys in high school.

thavoice;1654858 wrote:Any idea how many DV-DVII football teams that also have boys soccer in HS?

Not sure, but just in our league alone we have 2 that I know of. Riverdale and Cory-Rawson, both D7.

WebFire;1654893 wrote:Not sure, but just in our league alone we have 2 that I know of. Riverdale and Cory-Rawson, both D7.

I am thinking it cant be many.
CR has really fallen on some bad, bad times. There was a time where I thought they could turn the corner.

Has to be few and far between of schools that small having both sports.

WebFire;1654893 wrote:Not sure, but just in our league alone we have 2 that I know of. Riverdale and Cory-Rawson, both D7.

I thought Riverdale was D6

I posed this question simply based on total number of boys needed to field varsity teams in the Fall compared to the Spring and I was just using averages from our area.
Fall
Football - 40-50 (would allow enough for a JV team) - Would be more if there is enough for a Frosh team
Soccer - 30 (would allow enough for a JV team)
CC - 8-10 (all run varsity usually)
Golf - 8
Band - ? (usually these kids can participate in a sport as well)
TOTAL - 85-100

Spring
Baseball-30 (would allow for a JV team) - more if there is a Frosh team
Track - 35-40 (do not need this many, but its about where Orrville is yearly.
Tennis - 12-15 (guess)
TOTAL - 75-85

Less boys needed in the spring to field the teams and therefore some more wiggle room for adding a sport? It would all depend on how many soccer kids play baseball, tennis, or run track. Probably some conflicts there, but I bet it wouldn't be as many as we might think?

An-Old-Fan;1654918 wrote:I thought Riverdale was D6

Could be. Before D7 they were D6 most of the time, but right on the line, and would occasionally go to D5.

Yes, they are D6, just looked it up. Doesn't change the answer to the question however.

Move football to the spring. RTR

Old Rider;1654921 wrote:I posed this question simply based on total number of boys needed to field varsity teams in the Fall compared to the Spring and I was just using averages from our area.
Fall
Football - 40-50 (would allow enough for a JV team) - Would be more if there is enough for a Frosh team
Soccer - 30 (would allow enough for a JV team)
CC - 8-10 (all run varsity usually)
Golf - 8
Band - ? (usually these kids can participate in a sport as well)
TOTAL - 85-100

Spring
Baseball-30 (would allow for a JV team) - more if there is a Frosh team
Track - 35-40 (do not need this many, but its about where Orrville is yearly.
Tennis - 12-15 (guess)
TOTAL - 75-85

Less boys needed in the spring to field the teams and therefore some more wiggle room for adding a sport? It would all depend on how many soccer kids play baseball, tennis, or run track. Probably some conflicts there, but I bet it wouldn't be as many as we might think?

Using your numbers with your max estimation but removing Soccer from the fall since that is your interest switch, it looks like the fall is the better place for the sport.
Fall
Football - 50 (would allow enough for a JV team) - Would be more if there is enough for a Frosh team
CC - 10 (all run varsity usually)
Golf - 8
TOTAL - 68

Spring
Baseball-30 (would allow for a JV team) - more if there is a Frosh team
Track - 40 (do not need this many, but its about where Orrville is yearly.
Tennis - 15 (guess)
TOTAL - 85

However, my point is to bring that football number UP...therefore 50 wouldn't include a Frosh team. Most coaches in D5,6,7 would LOVE to have 50-60 on the varsity roster and another 20 playing Frosh ball.

I know the head coach at Fredricktown well and he said this summer that he had 70+ kids out for football...that is an ideal number (included Frosh)

1_beast;1654945 wrote:Move football to the spring. RTR

And get rid of the sport that requires boys to wear tights and rub on each other! Da Bears!

ccrunner609;1655101 wrote:This thread cracks me up. Soccer doesnt take the "football" type kids. If you move soccer to the spring, 75% of them would be running CC. In an average size school with 40 football players and 20 soccer players.....the football team might pick up 2-5 of those players.

As for the comment about making revenue......I run a CC and track program that makes some serious jack.

In a small school, 2-5 athletes can make a huge difference. And you are straight up lying about CC and track making "serious jack".

Lol cross country making money....WOW...and to say soccer doesn't take football types....Coldwater one of the best programs in the state...no soccer program...if they did one of the best in state Brody Hoying would be a soccer star

Well it is not good for me to be in this discussion because I would rather shut my fingers in a car door than watch a soccer game so...

I think Soccer should be cancelled because the teach the kids to hit the ball off their head with no helmet and I am sure this will cause brain damage in the future. Therefore soccer should be cancelled starting today!