Zoltan;1684435 wrote:Lots of interesting points here by Whitlock. http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/11984741/whitlock-why-black-folks-breathe

I don't agree with all of it, but it will make you think for sure. There are real issues with race, and the way we address it just tends to dig each side deeper into it's own corner. We are trying to treat the symptoms, and not find a cure.

There is no cure. Racism will always exist especially because there are benefits to the narrative of racism for minorities. Even if you truly educated folks and eliminated 'real racism' perceived racism will always perpetuate itself forever and ever.

Basically, if you think racism is holding you back or there is systemic issues with race in this country; go fuck yourself.

rrfan;1684437 wrote:I was always told if you can talk you can breath. I have not seen the whole video but all the shirts that say " I can't breath" was that what the guy said? If so at that time he could breath. Either way I don't like what is going on here in our country. People of all races need to address the situation. Criminals need punished and cops have to be able to do the right thing and go home at the end of the day to their family.

Interesting point. The guy can't breathe yet is able to communicate that. What did the autopsy say? How did he die?

sleeper;1684455 wrote:Interesting point. The guy can't breathe yet is able to communicate that. What did the autopsy say? How did he die?

From an article I read on the facts of the case:

The autopsy from the medical examiner attributed his death to homicide – meaning death at the hands of another party, not murder, in medical parlance – and stated that he died thanks to “Compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police.” But the autopsy further noted that Garner died thanks to acute and chronic bronchial asthma, obesity, and heart disease.

Zoltan;1684435 wrote:Lots of interesting points here by Whitlock. http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/11984741/whitlock-why-black-folks-breathe

I don't agree with all of it, but it will make you think for sure. There are real issues with race, and the way we address it just tends to dig each side deeper into it's own corner. We are trying to treat the symptoms, and not find a cure.

From the article:

Born in a different circumstance and zip code, Anton, a natural bookworm, would've been an accountant, an engineer, a doctor, a scientist, a sports columnist. Instead, he dabbled in a neighborhood trade -- hustling -- he had no real qualifications for, showed up one too many times at the wrong place at the wrong time, and was left with little choice but to plead guilty to several serious felony charges related to guns and drugs. The rap sheet with no context made his unwarranted death easy to dismiss for those who learned his story in the local newspaper. The pain is in the details and the context.

Yeah just a poor innocent sweet boy. This is actually the problem with black people; how about instead of glorifying your LOSERS AND FUCK UPS you should condemn them. The MB case, THUG. The Trayvon case, THUG. The Garner case, maybe some validity there but not a systemic issue.

sherm03;1684458 wrote:From an article I read on the facts of the case:

So basically the fault of white people.

Pick6;1684341 wrote:I have not done a lot of reading on it (so correct me if I'm missing something), but the Eric Garner thing is actually one I have a little bit of sympathy for. Though it was more of a freak accident than anything, I still feel the officers should have been reprimanded in some way, but not charged with murder.

Ehh he wasn't a life long criminal and if he wasn't so fat and unhealthy AND not complying with officers, he would still be alive and the choke hold wouldn't have helped his death.If you watch the video, this wasn't the first time the one of the cops and him had met. I do feel bad he died from it, but the one in Cleveland is the only one that smells "bad" to me.

iclfan2;1684477 wrote:Ehh he wasn't a life long criminal and if he wasn't so fat and unhealthy AND not complying with officers, he would still be alive and the choke hold wouldn't have helped his death.If you watch the video, this wasn't the first time the one of the cops and him had met. I do feel bad he died from it, but the one in Cleveland is the only one that smells "bad" to me.

In every case presented, the person killed isn't a sweet baby angel. Even the Cleveland case, the kid removed the orange tip from his gun and was reaching for his waist when the cops arrived.

This is simple common sense to me. But maybe that's what 'white privilege' is; having common sense and respect for the law.

sherm03;1684458 wrote:From an article I read on the facts of the case:

This is what I had asked earlier in the thread. Homicide is not a medical cause of death. It was clear to me in the video he didn't actually get choked to death, so I wanted to know the medical reason. Interesting last sentence in that article.

sleeper;1684459 wrote:From the article:


Yeah just a poor innocent sweet boy. This is actually the problem with black people; how about instead of glorifying your LOSERS AND FUCK UPS you should condemn them. The MB case, THUG. The Trayvon case, THUG. The Garner case, maybe some validity there but not a systemic issue.

As a white person who grew up with two parents, that one is tough for me to relate to as well. He clearly had some family (like the author) who were educated and had common sense. Surly, he knew the possible consequences of his choices and continued to make them. I do however, understand how you can know someone on a personal basis and be biased (as he admits he is.) It's tough to reconcile seeing someone treat you with respect, be totally gentle in all your interactions with them, and then admit they weren't that person all the time.

His larger point though, that continuing the drug war, and mass incarceration is not working makes some sense.

Zoltan;1684486 wrote:As a white person who grew up with two parents, that one is tough for me to relate to as well. He clearly had some family (like the author) who were educated and had common sense. Surly, he knew the possible consequences of his choices and continued to make them. I do however, understand how you can know someone on a personal basis and be biased (as he admits he is.) It's tough to reconcile seeing someone treat you with respect, be totally gentle in all your interactions with them, and then admit they weren't that person all the time.

His larger point though, that continuing the drug war, and mass incarceration is not working makes some sense.

Irrelevant. I'm sure murderer and rapists are just sweet innocent boys WHO CAN BE A SCIENTIST!!!!! until they rape and murder. Pretty hilarious that this guy blames society on the fact that his nephew broke the law on multiple occasions and because society forced him to plead guilty to several SERIOUS drug crimes. I mean come on. Let's blame the kid for committing the crimes in the first place and his parents for not raising him appropriately.

sleeper;1684497 wrote:Irrelevant. I'm sure murderer and rapists are just sweet innocent boys WHO CAN BE A SCIENTIST!!!!! until they rape and murder. Pretty hilarious that this guy blames society on the fact that his nephew broke the law on multiple occasions and because society forced him to plead guilty to several SERIOUS drug crimes. I mean come on. Let's blame the kid for committing the crimes in the first place and his parents for not raising him appropriately.

I agree, that's why I explained I couldn't relate to his logic. I could understand (but not condone) his bias. My question is how do we break the cycle? Another generation is always coming up who weren't raised correctly, and therefore will not be raising their kids correctly. How does it stop?

Zoltan;1684545 wrote:I agree, that's why I explained I couldn't relate to his logic. I could understand (but not condone) his bias. My question is how do we break the cycle? Another generation is always coming up who weren't raised correctly, and therefore will not be raising their kids correctly. How does it stop?

It'll never stop. Any attempts to address these issues and provide solutions will be either a) seen as racism, b) seen as Uncle Tom, c) seen as radical.

My solution is quite simple and would probably fall under choice 'c'. Eliminate welfare for any time period over 1 year. If you have children and are unable to take care of them after this year period, this is considered child abuse and you would punished by the law accordingly. The children will then be placed in the care of the state until they find homes or until they turn 18. This gets rid of shitty parents in the short run and gives kids a chance at getting real parents so they can have a reasonable future. It will also discourage the scum of the Earth from having future children for a paycheck regardless of actually the ability(financial and mental) to take care of them.

At an attempt to not be insensitive at the loss of life, society is better off without Trayvon and MB. Does anyone really think these sweet baby innocent angels would grow up to be a net positive to society anyway? No. Again, I realize that is an insensitive comment but I don't think with emotions, I think with logic.

If the choke hold was the cause of death, then "asphyxiation" would have been listed as the cause. I've never seen this "compression of the neck" bullshit before.

http://youtu.be/v4ntAF9c_uI

Headlines: "white cop kills black man in synagogue for failing to listen."

Lebron will wear a shirt about the incident in tomorrow's game.

Wow.

fish82;1684585 wrote:If the choke hold was the cause of death, then "asphyxiation" would have been listed as the cause. I've never seen this "compression of the neck" bullshit before.

You see people in martial arts get choked completely unconscious all the time. They wake up in a few seconds and are totally OK. This was either a freak accident or he had some pre-existing conditions for sure. Pretty sure I heard a doctor say you have to hold the choke for like 90 seconds after the person is unconscious to inflict brain damage and/or death.

Zoltan;1684595 wrote:This was either a freak accident or he had some pre-existing conditions for sure.

He had a pre-existing condition. He was a fatass. He also had diabetes, asthma and heart disease.

Zoltan;1684595 wrote:You see people in martial arts get choked completely unconscious all the time. They wake up in a few seconds and are totally OK. This was either a freak accident or he had some pre-existing conditions for sure. Pretty sure I heard a doctor say you have to hold the choke for like 90 seconds after the person is unconscious to inflict brain damage and/or death.

Right. The cop let go and didn't even have him in the hold and he was conscious.

TedSheckler;1684597 wrote:He had a pre-existing condition. He was a fatass. He also had diabetes, asthma and heart disease.

He also had a listening problem.

QuakerOats;1684635 wrote:He also had a listening problem.

Good point,sir. Good point.

SportsAndLady;1684588 wrote:http://youtu.be/v4ntAF9c_uI

Headlines: "white cop kills black man in synagogue for failing to listen."

Lebron will wear a shirt about the incident in tomorrow's game.

How fucking dumb can you be? Just drop the fucking knife. That dude wanted to die.

But hey, we should have cameras and miss on every cop, so the videos can be posted on youtube and everyone can overact to them!!!

/iwp

saw the video of the guy with the knife......Its ridiculous how gun shy the cops are......lucky that one of the cops didn't get stabbed before they shot him. He got way to many chances to comply.

like_that;1684662 wrote:How fucking dumb can you be? Just drop the fucking knife. That dude wanted to die.

But hey, we should have cameras and miss on every cop, so the videos can be posted on youtube and everyone can overact to them!!!

/iwp

I was reading an article the other day where a small town police chief was complaining because there are so many public records request for the body cam videos. its taking so much time and money all so people can post stuff on their youtube channel.

Spock;1684707 wrote:saw the video of the guy with the knife......Its ridiculous how gun shy the cops are......lucky that one of the cops didn't get stabbed before they shot him. He got way to many chances to comply.

of course they are gun shy, they don't want to be the next Darren Wilson.

SportsAndLady;1684588 wrote:http://youtu.be/v4ntAF9c_uI

Headlines: "white cop kills black man in synagogue for failing to listen."

Lebron will wear a shirt about the incident in tomorrow's game.

but but but why didn't he listen to the Rabbi?