SportsAndLady;1641039 wrote:ESPN is the worst

I hate ESPN trying to stir up controversy. Leave the kid alone and quit making him feel like he should be angry that he's a key piece in rumored trades for Kevin Love. If I were a rookie being traded for Love, I would feel pretty honored, whether or not the deal actually happens. The fact that a team would be willing to give up a player of Love's caliber for the potential of a young guy like Wiggins should speak volumes about his ability and what teams think he can bring to the table.

If I were Wiggins and I was the centerpiece of a trade for Kevin Love I'd feel two things: 1) damn that's pretty awesome to be that highly coveted; and 2) f*ck I don't get to play with Lebron now.

lhslep134;1641031 wrote:I can't name 5 players all around better than him. I've tried. Emphasis on the all-around, because I showed on this thread pages ago Love isn't the "minus defender" he's perceived to be.

And even if he's not top 5, which is fine I'm not going to argue, he's unequivocally NOT "far from top 5" status. That is an opinion I will argue with you about lol.

To me, far from top 5 is the 15-20 range. The NBA is so closely grouped with stars from 5-15 you can make an argument most of them could be top 5 IMO.

I know a few pages back you posted the advanced def stats and I still haven't gone back and dug into them, so that's on me. However, when I watch him play, I think he's pretty damn bad on defense and the consensus around the league is he stinks on def.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/tyson-chandler-says-that-kevin-love-can-t-play-defense-in-halftime-interview--video-091025916.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2149199-how-cleveland-cavaliers-would-cover-for-kevin-loves-defensive-deficiencies
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-07-22/kevin-love-trade-rumors-nba-wolves-cavaliers-bulls-lebron-james-andrew-wiggins-klay-thompson

"Love is a phenomenal defensive rebounder but that's about the end of his highly visible defensive contributions. He's neither a physical enforcer nor an athletic shot-blocker, the typical boxes in which we categorize interior defenders."

Like I said, my perception of him is a bad defender, but I still need to dig into the advanced numbers.


Off the top of my head, players I think are better than Love:

1. LBJ
2. KD
3. Westbrook
4. Marc Gasol
5. CP3

Wasn't even tough.

Now we're splitting hairs, as Love is a great player and I'm not denying that, would love him on the Cavs. But not at the cost of Wiggins, who I think will be a top 5 player in the league in a few years and contribute more to the team THIS season with his defense, keeping LBJ fresh by taking top defender, and running ability than Love.

Commander of Awesome;1641047 wrote:I know a few pages back you posted the advanced def stats and I still haven't gone back and dug into them, so that's on me. However, when I watch him play, I think he's pretty damn bad on defense and the consensus around the league is he stinks on def.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/tyson-chandler-says-that-kevin-love-can-t-play-defense-in-halftime-interview--video-091025916.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2149199-how-cleveland-cavaliers-would-cover-for-kevin-loves-defensive-deficiencies
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-07-22/kevin-love-trade-rumors-nba-wolves-cavaliers-bulls-lebron-james-andrew-wiggins-klay-thompson

"Love is a phenomenal defensive rebounder but that's about the end of his highly visible defensive contributions. He's neither a physical enforcer nor an athletic shot-blocker, the typical boxes in which we categorize interior defenders."

Like I said, my perception of him is a bad defender, but I still need to dig into the advanced numbers.

I think the biggest struggle for him defensively has been when it comes to rotation. He's not a bad on-the-ball defender, but he does not rotate quickly which often results in easy baskets.

Commander of Awesome;1641047 wrote:
Like I said, my perception of him is a bad defender, but I still need to dig into the advanced numbers.
.

Here's a good read from a Warriors' perspective regarding Love's defense.

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2014/7/24/5931549/kevin-love-trade-rumors-golden-state-warriors-klay-thompson

Commander of Awesome;1641047 wrote:I know a few pages back you posted the advanced def stats and I still haven't gone back and dug into them, so that's on me. However, when I watch him play, I think he's pretty damn bad on defense and the consensus around the league is he stinks on def.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/tyson-chandler-says-that-kevin-love-can-t-play-defense-in-halftime-interview--video-091025916.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2149199-how-cleveland-cavaliers-would-cover-for-kevin-loves-defensive-deficiencies
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-07-22/kevin-love-trade-rumors-nba-wolves-cavaliers-bulls-lebron-james-andrew-wiggins-klay-thompson

"Love is a phenomenal defensive rebounder but that's about the end of his highly visible defensive contributions. He's neither a physical enforcer nor an athletic shot-blocker, the typical boxes in which we categorize interior defenders."

Like I said, my perception of him is a bad defender, but I still need to dig into the advanced numbers.


Off the top of my head, players I think are better than Love:

1. LBJ
2. KD
3. Westbrook
4. Marc Gasol
5. CP3

Wasn't even tough.

Now we're splitting hairs, as Love is a great player and I'm not denying that, would love him on the Cavs. But not at the cost of Wiggins, who I think will be a top 5 player in the league in a few years and contribute more to the team THIS season with his defense, keeping LBJ fresh by taking top defender, and running ability than Love.

Marc Gasol is great but he is not better than Kevin Love.

Commander of Awesome;1641047 wrote:
Off the top of my head, players I think are better than Love:

1. LBJ
2. KD
3. Westbrook
4. Marc Gasol
5. CP3

nice to see someone else see the light.

I have Gasol ahead of Love too. I have Love in there at 5 instead of Westbrook. Cp3 and 3 and Gasol at 4.

I think Westbrook is the third most talented player, but makes too many bad basketball plays for me. Got him at 6.

lhslep134;1641053 wrote:I have Gasol ahead of Love too. I have Love in there at 5 instead of Westbrook. Cp3 and 3 and Gasol at 4.

I think Westbrook is the third most talented player, but makes too many bad basketball plays for me. Got him at 6.

Gasol is better defensively but Love is so great on the boards and on offense that he has a much larger impact on the game imo. Would take either on my team obviously but Love's versatility and his monstrous consistent rebounding night in night out gives him the edge imo.

It seems to me like if the Cavs were in a "wait and see" mode with the development of Wiggins, Bennett and Waiters that they wouldn't reach out to Miller, Jones and Allen to come here for next season. It would make sense for LeBron to bring those three (Allen is still a possibility) with the pitch that more veterans are coming. Miller could have signed with another contender, Jones could be hoping one more title and Allen may wait until its closer to training camp.

I don't have the time to look it up right now but with the team already being one of the youngest in the league, I would like to see how current team would compare to past champions in terms of age and experience. I did look at salary's and 9 players out of 12 are still on their rookie deal. I am counting Kyrie's team option that was picked up as part of his rookie deal. I may be wrong though.

Marc Gasol is the closest to a Tim Duncan type in the league IMO. DPOY, elite basketball IQ, elite passing from a post player, legit 7' defender that can score. Take him over love every day of the week. Gasol has potential to be a HoFer, don't see that with Love.

Commander of Awesome;1641056 wrote:Marc Gasol is the closest to a Tim Duncan type in the league IMO. DPOY, elite basketball IQ, elite passing from a post player, legit 7' defender that can score. Take him over love every day of the week. Gasol has potential to be a HoFer, don't see that with Love.

I think Gasol could be a HOF'er with help of his international career. Not saying thats what it will take but it will be factored in along with his NBA career.

lhslep134;1641050 wrote:Here's a good read from a Warriors' perspective regarding Love's defense.

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2014/7/24/5931549/kevin-love-trade-rumors-golden-state-warriors-klay-thompson

Very interesting read. Seems fair, not an elite defender, but not a bum either.

Commander of Awesome;1641060 wrote:Very interesting read. Seems fair, not an elite defender, but not a bum either.

Right. More importantly, not someone that will play poorly enough to cause the defense to mess up rotations

When there's no incentive to play defense, then most don't play it. When there's something on the line, then people will slap the floor and play it. I look for Kyrie to play dee this year too.

Footwedge;1641070 wrote:When there's no incentive to play defense, then most don't play it. When there's something on the line, then people will slap the floor and play it. I look for Kyrie to play dee this year too.

Agreed. Winning environment changes everything.

Let's not forget the obvious flaw with Love. He is White and American. How good could he really be?

pmoney25;1641088 wrote:Let's not forget the obvious flaw with Love. He is White and American. How good could he really be?

lol, Good enough to dominate black, athletic players on a night in night out basis

Footwedge;1641070 wrote:When there's no incentive to play defense, then most don't play it. When there's something on the line, then people will slap the floor and play it. I look for Kyrie to play dee this year too.

I hate to agree...but I do.

Ironman92;1641094 wrote:I hate to agree...but I do.

Same.

When the Celtics formed their big 3, everyone talked about how they would be a defensive disaster. That obviously was not the case.

robj55;1641090 wrote:lol, Good enough to dominate black, athletic players on a night in night out basis

i think you missed the sarcasm there rob

Yea I guess I didn't lay it on thick enough.

Pick6;1641098 wrote:i think you missed the sarcasm there rob

No I got it that's why I put lol at the beginning of my remarks, just adding on to it a bit lol

Anyone know when the schedule is supposed to be released?

http://instagram.com/p/rQv86FCTFe/