ZWICK 4 PREZ;1818512 wrote:Calm down QQ junior. Your precious little world isn't ending.
Health care was on an unsustainable path for consumers and the government. Inflation in healthcare was rising faster than anyone could affford and the government was spending more in default protections for insurance companies than it could afford. You had to do something about the uninsured. Free market, open lanes isn't going to address that. We can't afford free market healthcare. Better jump on board bc it's coming. It's not going back. It can't go back. We can't afford it.

BULLSHIT

QuakerOats;1818822 wrote:BULLSHIT

I realize that in whatever little world you live in, you can choose to just not believe stuff and that becomes your reality. But, with us, in the real word, that's not the case.

The democrats had to effectively bribe the last few votes they needed to pass this disastrous legislation. They said it would enhance choice and lower costs. They said you could keep your plan, and your doctor. They said over 30 million more people would get insurance coverage. Absolutely nothing they said is true, and in fact, the exact opposite has occurred. Choices are far, far fewer, costs are outrageously high and increasing by epic proportion, deductibles have increased by factors of 10, plans and insurers are vanishing, doctors are heading for the exits, and The People are left holding the bag. In just 7 years the democrats have all but ruined what was the best system in the world. Please, just own it. Admitting mistakes is the first step in the corrective process.

QuakerOats;1818827 wrote:The democrats had to effectively bribe the last few votes they needed to pass this disastrous legislation. They said it would enhance choice and lower costs. They said you could keep your plan, and your doctor. They said over 30 million more people would get insurance coverage. Absolutely nothing they said is true, and in fact, the exact opposite has occurred. Choices are far, far fewer, costs are outrageously high and increasing by epic proportion, deductibles have increased by factors of 10, plans and insurers are vanishing, doctors are heading for the exits, and The People are left holding the bag. In just 7 years the democrats have all but ruined what was the best system in the world. Please, just own it. Admitting mistakes is the first step in the corrective process.

Some peoples premiums have gone up.. that's what happens when you have people who don't use insurance opting out and people who need it opt in.

The number of uninsured has gone down which is what the government was trying to tackle, and what you as a tax payer should be worried about too, since your tax dollars go to subsidize insurance companies and hospitals and doctors office claims on bills that were never paid by the uninsured.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1818849 wrote:Some peoples premiums have gone up.. that's what happens when you have people who don't use insurance opting out and people who need it opt in.

The number of uninsured has gone down which is what the government was trying to tackle, and what you as a tax payer should be worried about too, since your tax dollars go to subsidize insurance companies and hospitals and doctors office claims on bills that were never paid by the uninsured.

So now it's the people's fault?

[emoji23]

like_that;1818648 wrote:I actually agree with him, maybe for different reasons, but I like the take. If he was referring to millennials, then I am not down for the millennial bashing.

I am all for progressive movements, but the so called progressives in this modern day and age aren't progressive anymore and that's why I call them regressives. They want to shove down their ideology down everyone's throats while also disrupting their livelihoods, even when they know they are most likely wrong. Case in point is how dems handle poor black communities. They don't do shit for them and haven't done shit for them for 50 years, yet they still find a way to perpetuate racial divide and get their votes.

It goes to what I said in the Social Justice thread. It starts with good intentions and then turns into a bunch of left-wing QQuaker impersonators living in their own little bubble and declaring they are right and anyone who disagrees is the enemy. Just replace the whiny usage of "socialist" and "marxist" with "racist" and "misogynist".

like_that;1818853 wrote:So now it's the people's fault?

[emoji23]

fault? no. They're doing what they're allowed to do.
But yes, it's certainly why the prices are up.

Heretic;1818855 wrote:It goes to what I said in the Social Justice thread. It starts with good intentions and then turns into a bunch of left-wing QQuaker impersonators living in their own little bubble and declaring they are right and anyone who disagrees is the enemy. Just replace the whiny usage of "socialist" and "marxist" with "racist" and "misogynist".

Pretty much this. I guess it depends on what side you tend to lean on, but I like Matt Stone's quote.

"I hate conservatives, but I really fucking hate liberals."

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1818856 wrote:fault? no. They're doing what they're allowed to do.
But yes, it's certainly why the prices are up.

At the very best it was a half assed plan that the Dems could always hang onto by reminding everyone they were the first to give it a try.

like_that;1818859 wrote:At the very best it was a half assed plan that the Dems could always hang onto by reminding everyone they were the first to give it a try.

eh.. it took some necessary steps with pre-existing condition coverage and getting people insured overall.

like I said.. single payer is coming. it's not going backwards.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1818860 wrote:eh.. it took some necessary steps with pre-existing condition coverage and getting people insured overall.

like I said.. single payer is coming. it's not going backwards.

I am sure that makes people in Ohio with 33k salaries feel better while they pay $200 a month with a 7k deductible.

like_that;1818858 wrote:Pretty much this. I guess it depends on what side you tend to lean on, but I like Matt Stone's quote.

"I hate conservatives, but I really fucking hate liberals."

^^^tbh I think that phrase sums up how a lot of gop voters in the south park generation feel (by default)

like_that;1818861 wrote:I am sure that makes people in Ohio with 33k salaries feel better while they pay $200 a month with a 7k deductible.

if they are then it means they never had any insurance before and should be happy 7k isn't 700k, right?

No words.

CenterBHSFan;1818866 wrote:No words.

life is sometimes hard, grow up

like_that;1818861 wrote:I am sure that makes people in Ohio with 33k salaries feel better while they pay $200 a month with a 7k deductible.

A $33,000 salary in OH for a single 30 yr old man cuts that premium in half to $100 after subsidies and can choose from 26 plans in 2017.

Moreover...if the deductible bothers you keep in mind that the closest thing to an answer the GOP has proposed is:

1. Ending premium subsidies
2. Catastrophic coverage + even higher deductibles and Health savings accounts.

So unquestionably the citizen in your example is worse off without obamacare...higher deductible, similar premium without the subsidy, no where near enough hsa per check to pay cash w/o co-pay system, no preventative care and can be dropped without mercy the next enrollment period after he gets cancer or some other catastrophe he was supposed to get covered.

like_that;1818859 wrote:At the very best it was a half assed plan that the Dems could always hang onto by reminding everyone they were the first to give it a try.

Need every state to expand medicaid...OHIo's costs up 2% with medicaid expansion.

One federal exchange probably would have been better than statebased exchanges but would have thrown state based insurance regulation into disarray IMHO.

BoatShoes;1818869 wrote:A $33,000 salary in OH for a single 30 yr old man cuts that premium in half to $100 after subsidies and can choose from 26 plans in 2017.

Moreover...if the deductible bothers you keep in mind that the closest thing to an answer the GOP has proposed is:

1. Ending premium subsidies
2. Catastrophic coverage + even higher deductibles and Health savings accounts.

So unquestionably the citizen in your example is worse off without obamacare...higher deductible, similar premium without the subsidy, no where near enough hsa per check to pay cash w/o co-pay system, no preventative care and can be dropped without mercy the next enrollment period after he gets cancer or some other catastrophe he was supposed to get covered.

Where do you see that? I am looking at healthcare.gov for plans for the citizen you just described.

I'm not defending the GOP and their plans to fix healthcare. My point is Obamacare was a half ass plan at that was shoved down our throats so they could tie healthcare reform to obamas and the Dems' legacy.

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1818863 wrote:if they are then it means they never had any insurance before and should be happy 7k isn't 700k, right?

Probably not considering they could choose to pay 0 dollars.

like_that;1818491 wrote:This is pretty much like saying "the Browns have been shitty at the QB position for the last 20+ years, but at least they drafted weeden/manziel." Like Obama or not, he doesn't get to escape criticism after all the bullshit he fed us for 8 years regarding Obamacare. What brings the must lulz is the people who went wacko over Obamacare and Obama's healthcare rhetoric are now trying to convince everyone that Obama's plan all along was for it to fail so eventually when he leaves we can move onto single payer... LOL

It wasn't bamas plan for it to fail. Any dem who says so is wrong.

Now he could have made it better if he hadn't been so obsessed with the deficit which the GOP doesnt really care about see: Donald Trump and his $4 trillion deficit proposals.

Every red district dem that he tried to protect like John Boccieri was always going to lose in 2010 no matter what he did.

like_that;1818504 wrote:Something needed to be done (QB situation/healthcare needs to be fixed), so a QB was was drafted (obamacare passed). Both have been massive failures and neither deserve praise for "trying."

You have a strange definition of massive failure. It has had hige net winners...20 million people with coverage, cancer survivors cannot be denied coverage, etc.

However the sick and poor people doing better has been accompanied by employers and and insurers shifting those costs onto average citizens of mediocre health, etc.

It is a mixed bag IMHO.

like_that;1818877 wrote:Probably not considering they could choose to pay 0 dollars.

And that was and still is a problem when they paid zero dollars but racked up an unforeseen bill for $30,000 due to a health issue, etc.

HitsRus;1818510 wrote:I'm on to the progressive bullshit of "moving the needle", and you should be too. They've done it with healthcare...they're trying it with the 2nd amendment. They don't care if it works as long as it advances the long term goal.


read Zwick:


No wonder Pelosi said it wasn't necessary to read Obamacare before passing it....it wasn't about it working, it was about getting the foot in the door to get to single payer.

Wise up, dumbasses, that's the Progressive's MO...

Progressives are the most dangerous people in this country...they are smug in their self righteousness and elitism, and they'll use any means to accomplish their ends....and that includes lying, cheating, name calling, and splitting up the country if it is to their political advantage. We've had 8 years of it, and we are about to elect 4 more.
SMH.

We care if it works and we don't want to repeal the 2nd amendment. We do think you can do something to stop cancer survivors from getting denied coverage and stop 2 yr olds from getting shot in cbus subdivisions without the world ending or freedom dying though. Enjoy voting for Gary Johnson.

HitsRus;1818510 wrote:I'm on to the progressive bullshit of "moving the needle", and you should be too. They've done it with healthcare...they're trying it with the 2nd amendment. They don't care if it works as long as it advances the long term goal.


read Zwick:


No wonder Pelosi said it wasn't necessary to read Obamacare before passing it....it wasn't about it working, it was about getting the foot in the door to get to single payer.

Wise up, dumbasses, that's the Progressive's MO...

Progressives are the most dangerous people in this country...they are smug in their self righteousness and elitism, and they'll use any means to accomplish their ends....and that includes lying, cheating, name calling, and splitting up the country if it is to their political advantage. We've had 8 years of it, and we are about to elect 4 more.
SMH.

Complains about dems dividing the country when our slogan is stronger together and his red as fuck county will vote in droves for Donald Fsrking Trump who has literally caused the re-emergence of white nationalism stomped out by neoconservatism 50 years ago.

I think you are projecting. #StrongerTogether #WhiteMenWithHer 😉😉😉

ZWICK 4 PREZ;1818860 wrote:eh.. it took some necessary steps with pre-existing condition coverage and getting people insured overall.

like I said.. single payer is coming. it's not going backwards.

Like I said, ObamaKare was a lie, and a baldfaced one at that. Congratulations on electing leaders that lie to your face and take you for the sucker you are.