And the other killed the hostage. Obviously it was at the least, 1 too many.Glory Days;1446367 wrote:7 of his 8 shots struck the target..
No. The door just locked behind him and the one of the hostages was yelling that the cops where there as a threat to the kidnapper.Glory Days;1446369 wrote:i would actually like to hear the whole story. from what i read, there was a male in the house who fell down the stairs and closed the door and started yelling "the cops are here", thus trapping the cop, the soon to be hostage and suspect in the front room of the house.
Officers who arrived first on the scene believed that they were confronting an armed robber but knew nothing about the hostages, the police said. That gap in knowledge was critical, experts said, possibly leading to missteps that inflamed an already dangerous situation and ultimately led to tragedy.
Most critical, experts said, was the decision by the officer who ultimately opened fire to enter the home in the first place.
That decision quite likely eliminated the opportunity to negotiate with the gunman, said Eugene O’Donnell, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a former New York City police officer. In any hostage crisis, he said, the first step for the police is to create a situation in which officers are in control.
“You arrive, secure the location and you really essentially buy time if you can; you call for negotiators,” Mr. O’Donnell said.
“The lack of time is an enemy, the lack of floor knowledge is an enemy and it greatly increases the chances of a bad outcome.”
LJ;1446408 wrote:yeah, they fucked up
No, I am pretty sure it is a professor in that article saying that they did it wrong.dlazz;1446411 wrote:Mmkay, detective.
That article is contradictory. It makes the police look bad for the actions they took in a hostage situation, but start the article stating police didn't know there was a hostage situation.LJ;1446408 wrote:yeah, they fucked up
In a sense yes, but from what I am to understand is that they are supposed to get any civilians out first and announce that the police are there. What the article is stating is that the officer entered without knowing anything about what was going on, how many people were supposed to be in there, etc.WebFire;1446426 wrote:That article is contradictory. It makes the police look bad for the actions they took in a hostage situation, but start the article stating police didn't know there was a hostage situation.
Where did you read that there was 2 out of 3 unaccounted for?LJ;1446431 wrote: is that the report of a gunman in the house and 2 out of 3 residents unaccounted for, that it would automatically be treated as a hostage situation. He shouldn't have gone into the house.
Did they have visual on them? Obviously not. Were they outside the residence? Nope. Did they know exactly where they were? Nope.WebFire;1446436 wrote:Where did you read that there was 2 out of 3 unaccounted for?
come on belly, you know that shit only happens in movies. i give you more credit than that.Belly35;1446398 wrote:Well places first and second round, potentally grab the hostage from harms way or move position so both hostage and shooter is off balance and continue to fire and or reaim for a better (mass) area target.
we where not there so .. woulda, coulda, shouilda does not apply.
How do you know 3 people lived in the house? That is the question. I may have missed it somewhere.LJ;1446437 wrote:Did they have visual on them? Obviously not. Were they outside the residence? Nope. Did they know exactly where they were? Nope.
They were unaccounted for.
Agree.Glory Days;1446466 wrote:come on belly, you know that shit only happens in movies. i give you more credit than that.
not sure if your ex OPOTA official is still in the business, but strategies have changed. no longer do cops sit back and wait in situations involving gunmen.LJ;1446431 wrote:In a sense yes, but from what I am to understand is that they are supposed to get any civilians out first and announce that the police are there. What the article is stating is that the officer entered without knowing anything about what was going on, how many people were supposed to be in there, etc.
From what I am told in just chatting about this with an ex OPOTA official, is that the report of a gunman in the house and 2 out of 3 residents unaccounted for, that it would automatically be treated as a hostage situation. He shouldn't have gone into the house.
did they have a visual on the suspect? nope. bet you would be ripping them apart if they were surrounding an empty house and the gunman was driving down the highway with the hostage.LJ;1446437 wrote:Did they have visual on them? Obviously not. Were they outside the residence? Nope. Did they know exactly where they were? Nope.
They were unaccounted for.
3 lived in the house and there was a boyfriend visiting.WebFire;1446467 wrote:How do you know 3 people lived in the house? That is the question. I may have missed it somewhere.
Glory Days;1446472 wrote:did they have a visual on the suspect? nope. bet you would be ripping them apart if they were surrounding an empty house and the gunman was driving down the highway with the hostage.
Ok, great that you know that post-incident. Did the police have this info available to them when responding?LJ;1446474 wrote:3 lived in the house and there was a boyfriend visiting.
"He was wearing a ski mask and carrying a pistol, the police said. He held the twin sisters and the young man hostage but let the other woman leave, apparently to go withdraw money from a nearby bank machine, the police said.
"
Yes he is. They sit back when it's not an active shooter. This was not an active shooter.Glory Days;1446470 wrote:not sure if your ex OPOTA official is still in the business, but strategies have changed. no longer do cops sit back and wait in situations involving gunmen.
You would think wouldn't you since the one that left is the one that called the cops. Even more shit on the PD if they didn't ask the simple question "who all is in the house?"WebFire;1446476 wrote:Ok, great that you know that post-incident. Did the police have this info available to them when responding?
I didn't say that the Hofstra situation was unknown. It should have been very known. I can tell you what they didn't do in Cleveland, the cops didn't blow the brains out of innocent civilians.Glory Days;1446479 wrote:Do you remember the shooting at the cracker barrel in cleveland?
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/04/shooting_at_cracker_barrel_res.html
cops received the call of a man with a gun threatened his ex wife. the first cops showed up and waited for backup....while the gunman inside started killing. unknown number of civilians inside just like you said in the hofstra situation. what should these cops in cleveland have done?
BTW, your link says the opposite of what you claimGlory Days;1446479 wrote:Do you remember the shooting at the cracker barrel in cleveland?
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/04/shooting_at_cracker_barrel_res.html
cops received the call of a man with a gun threatened his ex wife. the first cops showed up and waited for backup....while the gunman inside started killing. unknown number of civilians inside just like you said in the hofstra situation. what should these cops in cleveland have done?
Police arrived just as a man was exiting the restaurant with a "long gun," the chief said.
Why is it moronic that I think the cops were wrong to shoot the girl in the head? :laugh:dlazz;1446487 wrote:LJ isn't going to be swayed from his (moronic) opinion. Just lay it to rest
If that is the case, that is a dispatch problem, not a responding cop problem. They've already said the police were unaware of the hostage.LJ;1446478 wrote:You would think wouldn't you since the one that left is the one that called the cops. Even more shit on the PD if they didn't ask the simple question "who all is in the house?"