vball10set;1463242 wrote:Jim Tressel got caught in a lie and paid the ultimate price. Period. Chip Kelly is crooked as hell and jumped ship (ala Petey Carroll) prior to getting caught, and will pay no price. See how that works? :rolleyes:

But, but, but he got an 18 month show clause.

Lol

C4F, you didn't read the report did you?

Read the report, then we can continue this discussion.

lhslep134;1463265 wrote:C4F, you didn't read the report did you?

Read the report, then we can continue this discussion.

Like I said in my first post, no I did not ("I don't know the details" was my exact quote). I am speaking from a public perception problem as I stated in that first post as well. I'm not holding myself out as an expert on the ins and outs of the various cases. Rather I'm saying how this looks from a laymans point of view. I would venture to say the majority of college football fans haven't read the report(s). It's possible that the NCAA's only problem with punishments is their communication with the fan base regarding the punishments, but that's still a problem as in the commercial world we live in, perception is reality (often, not all cases).

Okay well I don't deal in perceptions, I deal in reality. Conversation over.

lhslep134;1463270 wrote:Okay well I don't deal in perceptions, I deal in reality. Conversation over.

You're being naive if you don't think pubic perception is important in our day and age. I'm not saying that this is the way the world should work ideally. But it is an important aspect of the way our society works and it would be foolish to dismiss that notion.

Fly4Fun;1463272 wrote:You're being naive if you don't think pubic perception is important in our day and age.

Or I work at a job where I'm dealing SOLELY in reality and not perception regarding the NCAA

I'm done with you on this topic.

wildcats20;1463251 wrote:But, but, but he got an 18 month show clause.

Lol

lol, indeed he did

I can't help you if you can't see the difference.

Right back at you. Tressel was 'speeding' and lied about it. Kelly was driving drunk. Who waives the ticket and pays his fine, and who gets goes to jail and loses his license? That may not be a perfect analogy, but the point is that none of the rules are codified. Hence, someone like you can look at a liar and a murderer and come to the conclusion that the liar deserves more punishment because he was dishonest.

HitsRus;1463302 wrote:Right back at you. Tressel was 'speeding' and lied about it. Kelly was driving drunk. Who waives the ticket and pays his fine, and who gets goes to jail and loses his license? That may not be a perfect analogy, but the point is that none of the rules are codified. Hence, someone like you can look at a liar and a murderer and come to the conclusion that the liar deserves more punishment because he was dishonest.

Right back at me?! Laughable, considering the ignorance in your post. Not only is that not a perfect analogy, it's not even close to reality. Get a clue about the facts about both cases.

Start here

http://www.goducks.com/pdf9/2348690.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=500

[URL="http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2011/ohio+state+coi+public+report"]http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2011/ohio+state+coi+public+report


[/URL]I've read both, and clearly you haven't.

lhslep134;1463094 wrote:I suggest you read the report before claiming that Oregon paid recruits.

From the precious little report that you keep spouting off about:
The recruiting service provider gave prospect A cash.


The "recruiting service provider" was working as an agent for Oregon. Him paying a recruit cash is essentially the same as Oregon paying the recruit.
It wasn't much cash, but it was cash all the same.

that_guy;1463334 wrote:
It wasn't much cash, but it was cash all the same.

Well except for the whole part that Oregon wasn't the only school that paid Lyles. So that money used to pay prospect A could have come from any of those schools, hence me saying you can't claim that Oregon paid recruits. What you can claim with certainty is that Oregon (and other schools) paid Lyles and Lyles' money ended up the hands of prospects.


I understand that you will respond that it's merely semantics, or what the perception is. But the NCAA deals with certainties, not semantics.

lhslep134;1463309 wrote:Right back at me?! Laughable, considering the ignorance in your post. Not only is that not a perfect analogy, it's not even close to reality. Get a clue about the facts about both cases.

Start here

http://www.goducks.com/pdf9/2348690.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=500

[URL="http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2011/ohio+state+coi+public+report"]http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2011/ohio+state+coi+public+report


[/URL]I've read both, and clearly you haven't.

Reading comprehension a problem? Clearly, you have one.

I read the Ducks report and reread OSU. Tressel committed an ethics violation over a relatively minor improper benefits violation by some student athletes....now what were you saying about reality? Multiple people involved/in charge of Oregon institutionally were involved with multiple recruiting violations?

HitsRus;1463469 wrote:Reading comprehension a problem? Clearly, you have one.

I read the Ducks report and reread OSU. Tressel committed an ethics violation over a relatively minor improper benefits violation by some student athletes....now what were you saying about reality? Multiple people involved/in charge of Oregon institutionally were involved with multiple recruiting violations?

Multiple people at both schools, and it's crystal clear from PRECEDENT that lying to the NCAA will invariably bring harsher punishments than working 10 fold with the NCAA after discovering the violations and completely re-hauling their compliance.

Do you know how big-time college athletic departments work?

lhslep134;1463274 wrote:Or I work at a job where I'm dealing SOLELY in reality and not perception regarding the NCAA

I'm done with you on this topic.

LOL...reality is Tressel didn't cheat, he lied. Oregon broke the golden rule of paying recruits to come to their team. Maybe you think they only paid the "recruiting service", but you're being naive if you don't think some of that money was passed on to recruits.

lhslep134;1463574 wrote:Multiple people at both schools, and it's crystal clear from PRECEDENT that lying to the NCAA will invariably bring harsher punishments than working 10 fold with the NCAA after discovering the violations and completely re-hauling their compliance.

Do you know how big-time college athletic departments work?

Also, you should give us your name, so we don't accidentally hire you for legal counsel if you are indeed a law student.

it's crystal clear from PRECEDENT that lying to the NCAA will invariably bring harsher punishments

...and hence the problem of operating with a ponderous ,non codified set of rules where specific penalties are not spelled out for specific 'crimes' The NCAA is free to and continually from one case to another....operate arbitrarily...slamming some schools, letting others slide with lesser penalties.


This doesn't even begin to address the abusive rules that restrict athlete's sources of income.

se-alum;1463586 wrote:Also, you should give us your name, so we don't accidentally hire you for legal counsel if you are indeed a law student.

I wouldn't be so harsh. I wouldn't judge someone on their legal future based upon what they think while just a law student. I can almost guarantee you he has either an internship or an externship with Arizona's athletic compliance office, which is why he is so adamant about this stuff.

But I agree with you, SE-alum on your previous post.

I do understand the rationale for why the NCAA does make lying such a taboo thing as the NCAA doesn't have much investigative power and relies on the truthfulness and cooperation of programs. And that's what they eventually got from OSU. But I don't think there should be such a huge disparity between the punishment for lying and the punishment for breaking a fundamental rule for NCAA compliance. Literally funneling money to recruits goes against everything that the recruiting rules are based upon.

se-alum;1463585 wrote:LOL...reality is Tressel didn't cheat, he lied. Oregon broke the golden rule of paying recruits to come to their team. Maybe you think they only paid the "recruiting service", but you're being naive if you don't think some of that money was passed on to recruits.

So knowingly covering up information that would make his players ineligible isn't cheating?

se-alum;1463586 wrote:Also, you should give us your name, so we don't accidentally hire you for legal counsel if you are indeed a law student.

LOL okay there Mr. Smartypants

Fly4Fun;1463267 wrote:I would venture to say the majority of college football fans haven't read the report(s).

Fly4Fun;1463639 wrote:

I do understand the rationale for why the NCAA does make lying such a taboo thing as the NCAA doesn't have much investigative power and relies on the truthfulness and cooperation of programs.

That's the problem. You can't quite understand the rationale until you read the actual reports, read the thought process of the NCAA, and read the fine details that actually make a difference. I can't stress enough how important the tiny details are that distinguish cases.

Bottom line: I'm done talking about all of this, the NCAA is still a joke, and it seems like some of you guys are clearly biased in your analysis.

lhslep134;1463687 wrote:That's the problem. You can't quite understand the rationale until you read the actual reports, read the thought process of the NCAA, and read the fine details that actually make a difference. I can't stress enough how important the tiny details are that distinguish cases.

Bottom line: I'm done talking about all of this, the NCAA is still a joke, and it seems like some of you guys are clearly biased in your analysis.

Which is exactly what my point about the NCAA having a huge public perception problem is about!!!!!

My point is that I understand their rationale about being really harsh on lying since they are dependent on cooperation to have any power what so ever. The problem is, that the public doesn't generally understand that and the difference in severity between punishment for lying and that of breaking the entire justification behind recruiting (not paying recruits) rules is so great it seems to be completely unfair.

lhslep134;1463687 wrote: Bottom line.....the NCAA is still a joke.....

/thread...please!!!

lhslep134;1463683 wrote:LOL okay there Mr. Smartypants

Actually, I do apologize for that remark. I was just a tad bit inebriated at the time of the post.

se-alum;1464241 wrote:Actually, I do apologize for that remark. I was just a tad bit inebriated at the time of the post.

Haha it's all good. Didn't get my feelz hurt. I was being douchier than necessary anyways.

Oregon receives too much hype. Stanford will probably shit on them again this upcoming season.