Maverick15;1395209 wrote: It seemed that a ref, one I thought was a good one, had a vendetta against us. Refing five of our matches in a row and making plenty of bad calls. Three of the matches in a row were our kid against a kid from a certain school. Which is where the ref is from. He screwed up bad enough that people with no affiliation to the match started booing him.

I wonder which one.....NOT!

cruiser_96;1395187 wrote:Just a question; no hostility involved...

How does having coaches attend ref classes improve Central Ohio officiating?

To insure that each coach knows the rules and their current interpretations. It is also a great venue to open up dialogue between the coaches and officials. IMO, there currently is a HUGE disconnect between the two groups. Each shares equal blame in the current situation.

OHSAA should make two official meetings mandatory for coaches. The current status of a quick online video presentation of the new rule changes is not getting it done. There are far too many coaches out there that simply do not know the entire rule book. How many coaches do you know that actually OWN their own current rule book and case manual?

OHSAA should also require each district's coaches association to hold a mandatory technique clinic so officials can be updated on the latest techniques being taught to the kids. It would be more than fair to say that there are a lot of officials out there that simply are "behind the times" and have absolutely no idea on the current techniques kids are attempting. If you see an official out of position to make a call the chances are that he did not anticipate what the kid was attempting to do. When is the last time an official visited a technique camp or practice room to see what new techniques the kids will be using?

OK I'll leave myself open here. Having been in the chair and refing on the mat for a number of years I can hope to look at this objectively. First why are their no more good officials as one comment was made. Well it is because when a new young ref comes out, and many of them have wrestled before, they are raked over the coals by coaches who sometimes don't know the rules themselves. Have you ever officiated a junior high match (not easy). Many of these guys last one year and done. You need to be put into tough situations to learn. As you go up the ladder the wrestlers get better. More counters to counters and also better at stalling. Is a guy in a front head holding the arm in place so the top man can't move or is the guy on top holding him down to let clock run. Officials top job is protecting a wrestler. I have seen moves stopped due to potentially dangerous and the crowd goes crazy because the move wasn't allowed to go on. On another comment it is the job of the head official to talk to and help some of the newer guys. You don't get better sitting in the stands you have to take the heat. I have seen guys crumble under the stress but go on to become good officials. As to refs having favorite schools, in the State tournament refs are not allowed to ref matches involving wrestlers from their district. I think if an official is working in the room with a school they should not do any of their matches. I would not work any matches of the school I used to coach. The officiating was OK Sat. some bad calls and some good. I think at all levels the assistants don't always pay attention to what is going on. The lead official always has the final say so on a call. They can consult but they have to make the call. My best memory was working a district match with Tony Campolo. I was the lead and Tony was the assistant. A certain coach who was notorious for riding refs was doing his best to get on me and I ignored him and went on but Tony got so mad he threw him out of the chair(not physically) and I never stopped the match. This thread happens every year and probably always will. I only ask that refs know the rules and be consistent. If slow to call pin, quick on a stall call, lets you play the edge we can plan around this. OK said my piece and will go on to the State where the Northeast officials never call stalling and certain schools always get the breaks and a guy in the top row can clearly see the pin better than the ref who has his nose 5 inches from the mat

If we are going to discuss how bad the refs were at Darby, then it is only fair to point out which ones they are, to be fair to the other quality refs that were there.

For starters, some of the refs were just plain BAD. When coaches and fans recognize certains refs getting "worked over " and intimidated by a certain Coach and Assistant coaches,it is embarrassing to the sport.

First, the older ref was an embarrassment to the craft. He literally robbed several kids a shot of moving on. What happened on Mat 3 in the go to match was inexcusable . Period. He was consistantly out of position and missed several calls. Not one, but two defensive pins he was completely clueless on until the assistant ref intervened. Bad all around.

The second ref that was obvioulsy way off was the Asian dissent ref. The matches were way over his level and he was very inconsistent . Make calls and then waffle after the call. No level of confidence in his ability. Seemed
lost on the mat and unable to keep up with the speed of the matches.

Lastly, the African American ref was a complete joke. In a go to match he was the assistant ref. and during the match several of us in the stands noticed he was watching a match on a mat BEHIND him. He wasnt even
looking at his own match. And unfortunately as the time expired, and the tap guy was late and tapped after the clock expired, the ref awarded an escape and the kid loses the match. He was solely responsible for the blown call, and would not reverse the call for one reason, HE WASN'T WATCHING THE CLOCK,BUT THE OTHER MATCH. That is a disgrace for the sport and his profession.

Hopefully the issues will be addressed , but I won't hold my breath on it.

And congrats and thanks to those refs that DO take pride in their trade and represent the sport in a great way.

And the identification of the refs by reference to their age and ethniticy is not intended to be bias, just how I
was able to identify them.

numbers on their striped shirts would help fans and coaches identify who the problem refs are.
perhaps then there wouldn't be entire threads implying that every ref at a tournament was a problem, when it is really..well... less than half.

Just so no-one else has to refer to someone by race, the ref described by oldtimer above as of "Asian dissent" name is Jeff Woo. I have never been to a tournament that Mr. Woo has worked where there haven't been a great deal of complaints about his work.

on a positive note, I thought the two younger brothers at Darby, who's names I don't know, did nice work.

Coach Geisz;1395080 wrote:If you have an issue with the officiating then please sign up for one of the spring classes and become an official! Take your dog and get him trained!

My dog is wrestling in college and I'm working 60 hours a week to help pay for it. But this kind of comment really adds nothing to the discussion. I started this thread to open a dialogue about how to improve the officiating. I guess I could have done a better job of not lumping them all together. Just like wrestlers there are all levels of officials. The weaker wrestlers don't usually make it to districts and neither should the weaker refs.

Some questions;
1. How are the officials rated throughout the season?l
2. How are they selected for the post season?
3. During a particular tournament how is the official rotation determined?
(Yesterday at Darby it seemed the weaker officials were teamed up a lot)

I ask these questions to hopefully continue the discussion in a positive direction. I did not start this thread as an attempt to just bash officiating. As I said in my first post these guys are trying their hardest. I don't believe they are out intentionally making mistakes. I would just like to see the best officiating when it matters most. Just like I always wanted to see my son wrestle his best when it mattered most.

[h=2]Central District Officiating ...is just bad.[/h]

I tell you I have come to expect that this is very subjective some call's will go your way and some won't I usually give the refs the benefit of the doubt. I had the pleasure of watching the 160 pound semi btween Wooden & Boyd, what a war and hats off to both kids for their efforts. After Boyd fault back back to take a 3-2 lead he had a perfect wrist & half and was getting ready to turn Wooden at that point the ref stopped the match for potentially dangerous, really bad call he had a perfect wrist & half. Unfortunately I have seen this guy involved in alot of questionable call's through the years. There was nothing dangerous about it,IMO this was blatant and no reason for the call

I am a former official and current asst coach....the officiating at Heath was the worst I have ever seen in 30+ years of being involved in wrestling. Stalling calls, the fiasco with Tate, dq's, fleeing the mat calls....it truly was horrible. I didn't see any "biased" calls but I sure did see alot of BAD officiating!!!!

oldtimer1979;1395235 wrote:For starters, some of the refs were just plain BAD. When coaches and fans recognize certains refs getting "worked over " and intimidated by a certain Coach and Assistant coaches,it is embarrassing to the sport.

Is one of the Assistant Coaches in question a tall guy who looks like this >>>

Dust_E_Roads;1395305 wrote:Is one of the Assistant Coaches in question a tall guy who looks like this >>>

I sure hope not!!!! What bad luck! :-/

this is probably the worst year of officiating

yankees suk;1395445 wrote:this is probably the worst year of officiating

Not even close. Darby 2010. So bad that it is still memorable.

The way I see it, we're either teaching it or letting it happen.

this year has been the worst year of officiating i have ever seen

Dust_E_Roads;1395305 wrote:Is one of the Assistant Coaches in question a tall guy who looks like this >>>

REALLY LOOK WHOSE TRYING TO BULLY NOW.Pretty pathetic you hide behind a screen name to talk shit about a very GOOD ASSISTANT COACH

As an observer at the district meet that had to witness another year of horrific officiating, I feel bad for the athletes that have to endure the pain and suffering of incompetent adults. It's to the point that the officials are so defensive because coaches are on them all the time. Well, there's a reason for that. You are bad at your job! Noah Holter did not deserve the treatment he got. His consolation semifinal official should never be allowed on a mat again. RETIRE!!!

What officials from central will be at the state tournament

lhuwrestler;1395497 wrote:As an observer at the district meet that had to witness another year of horrific officiating, I feel bad for the athletes that have to endure the pain and suffering of incompetent adults. It's to the point that the officials are so defensive because coaches are on them all the time. Well, there's a reason for that. You are bad at your job! Noah Holter did not deserve the treatment he got. His consolation semifinal official should never be allowed on a mat again. RETIRE!!!

:thumbup: Couldnt have said it better myself.

double arm bars;1395510 wrote:What officials from central will be at the state tournament

Most, if not all, will be there! They have these sharp looking red vests they wear. Some work as tappers, others bout sheet runners, others still, operate clocks.

Or did you mean... Oh. I bet you meant... Gotcha. I get it. M'bad. M'bad.

cruiser_96;1395523 wrote:Most, if not all, will be there! They have these sharp looking red vests they wear. Some work as tappers, others bout sheet runners, others still, operate clocks.

Or did you mean... Oh. I bet you meant... Gotcha. I get it. M'bad. M'bad.

Your knife is sharp. :rolleyes:

Slice like a ninja, cuts like razor blade.

cruiser_96;1395531 wrote:Slice like a ninja, cuts like razor blade.

The officials in the northeast are much more advanced....

Gardens35;1395532 wrote:The officials in the northeast are much more advanced....

We know, we know....Just like the tournaments, the venues, the parking, the coaches room and the wrestlers. :huh:

MPhillips;1395536 wrote:We know, we know....Just like the tournaments, the venues, the parking, the coaches room and the wrestlers. :huh:

All true...Maybe not the parking.