Oh and Self was the coach at OSU, he wouldn't have a team of 1 "me first" star, and a bunch of nobodies. He'd actually develop the talent.

SportsAndLady;1350087 wrote:Oh and Self was the coach at OSU, he wouldn't have a team of 1 "me first" star, and a bunch of nobodies. He'd actually develop the talent.

Lol if you think Thomas
Played like a "me" only player yesterday. You're trying way too hard to I guess make the win look better then it was.

I don't think its wrong at all to say Self > Matta. I love Matta and think as long as he's at Ohio State they'll be good and I think he'll win a title before its all said and done, but by all measures Self is better than Matta. He's better than almost all coaches so no shame in that.

If this team doesn't start shooting the ball well soon they wont go anywhere. Its going to sound ridiculous, but what about the Italian freshman getting a little PT? He's supposed to be a shooter, so why not have him play maybe 5-8 minutes a game to see if he can pop some 3 balls. Can't be any damn worse than yesterday.

Midstate01;1349420 wrote:This team isn't FULL of 3/4 year guys.

They start 4 of them. Not sure what your talking about here???

se-alum;1349471 wrote:LOL...OSU hast lost to Duke at Cameron, and at home by 6 points to Kansas while shooting 30% from the field. This is still a talented team, but yes, they have some work to do. They aren't a great shooting team, but they're also not a 30% team either. I think it's time to put Williams in the starting lineup and let him develop. Scott has improved leaps and bounds from last year. This team will lose some games this year, but I see them being much better by seasons end. Calm down my Chicken Little's.

They havent played bad all year, really. But there is a reason they get open looks versus Duke and Kansas, who have comparable coaching to OSU (aka, not a mid major guy). They are bad shooters. They brick open looks. The only player who I would be confident in shooting is Thomas. Smith Jr is streaky, and I would bet quite a bit that he and Scott will have those percentages drop below 40% once B1G teams start defending them.

OSU will be fine, because they play tough defense and have athletes. But if they get into a half-court game or start to shoot the ball too much, they are in trouble.

Midstate01;1350092 wrote:Lol if you think Thomas
Played like a "me" only player yesterday. You're trying way too hard to I guess make the win look better then it was.

I've always thought Thomas plays like a "me" player. The most successful coaches don't build an offense around their star player. They have their players play to their offense. What is Matta's offense?

Laley23;1350100 wrote:They start 4 of them. Not sure what your talking about here???



They havent played bad all year, really. But there is a reason they get open looks versus Duke and Kansas, who have comparable coaching to OSU (aka, not a mid major guy). They are bad shooters. They brick open looks. The only player who I would be confident in shooting is Thomas. Smith Jr is streaky, and I would bet quite a bit that he and Scott will have those percentages drop below 40% once B1G teams start defending them.

OSU will be fine, because they play tough defense and have athletes. But if they get into a half-court game or start to shoot the ball too much, they are in trouble.

Yup, exactly. You really think Self, who coaches some of the best defense in college basketball, was just stumped by OSU's "offense" and they were just getting wide open shots from it? He knows what he's doing. He knows their shooters aren't going to beat KU, so let them shoot. He made adjustments in-game when OSU would put a few shots together.

You know it is possible to coach a less talented team to victory, don't you?

Sure it is. I remember a 14th seeded Bucknell team beating a #1 seeded Bill Self coached Kansas team. I also remember a #1 seeded Bill Self coached KU team losing to a 9th seeded Northern Iowa team.I also remember a #1 seeded Bill Self coached team losing to an 11th seeded VCU team. These examples prove that lesser talented can defeat teams with more talent.

BTW,The use of the word RETARD is terribly offensive and a reflection of your lack of compassion for those who have a little more to deal with than most people.

The most successful coaches don't build an offense around their star player.

Really???? It seems to me that Coach K built an offense around J.J. Redick. It seems to me that Jim Boeheim built an offense around Carmelo Anthony. I seem to remember Bob Knight building an offense around Steve Alford. John Wooden built an offense around Lew Alcindor( Kareem Abdul Jabbar). These guys could and do coach a little.

Dont remember Bucknell, but I remember the VCU and the N. Iowa game. I would definitely say Bill Self was outcoached in those games. So not sure that helps your point or not. Smart outcoached everyone but Brad Stevens in that run. He made some amazing adjustments game to game and in each game as well. Use of timeouts and getting a solid possession after each was great.

Kansas was 2/21(9.5%) behind the arc in the loss to VCU. That alone proves Self was outcoached.

Prescott;1350154 wrote:Kansas was 2/21(9.5%) behind the arc in the loss to VCU. That alone proves Self was outcoached.

VCU's coach that day brilliantly knew that Kansas was going to brick em all day.

* S&L/

Prescott;1350148 wrote:You know it is possible to coach a less talented team to victory, don't you?

Sure it is. I remember a 14th seeded Bucknell team beating a #1 seeded Bill Self coached Kansas team. I also remember a #1 seeded Bill Self coached KU team losing to a 9th seeded Northern Iowa team.I also remember a #1 seeded Bill Self coached team losing to an 11th seeded VCU team. These examples prove that lesser talented can defeat teams with more talent.

BTW,The use of the word RETARD is terribly offensive and a reflection of your lack of compassion for those who have a little more to deal with than most people.

Uhhh, exactly..Bill Self was outcoached in those games. But he still had more talent. You literally proved my point by trying to bring up first round losses by my team 5 years ago lol

You shouldn't be on the internet if the word retard offends you.

Prescott;1350148 wrote:The most successful coaches don't build an offense around their star player.

Really???? It seems to me that Coach K built an offense around J.J. Redick. It seems to me that Jim Boeheim built an offense around Carmelo Anthony. I seem to remember Bob Knight building an offense around Steve Alford. John Wooden built an offense around Lew Alcindor( Kareem Abdul Jabbar). These guys could and do coach a little.

Coach K did not go "Hmm J.J. Redick is very good..I'm going to give the ball to him and let him do his thing." I'm sure Rec can back me up on that. Coach K has his offense, and he inserts very good players into it. Sure, the offense might focus on his star players, but it's still part of his offense. Matta, at least on Saturday, didn't seem like he had an offense. It was just 1 v 1 basketball all over the place. Meanwhile, Self had designed plays (remember the 7 points KU got off inbound play dunks?) and easy buckets. You never saw McLemore just stand at the top of the circle and go 1 v 1. He'd be benched, and he has before.

Prescott;1350154 wrote:Kansas was 2/21(9.5%) behind the arc in the loss to VCU. That alone proves Self was outcoached.

KU wasn't wide open in those shots. On Saturday, OSU was laughingly wide open. And they were missing. KU was chucking up 3 point shots becuase they couldn't get inside, which was what their offense was built around. Look at KU's front court players in that game, they were loaded. And they couldn't do anything because of VCU's ability to shut down the entrance passes. So what else are they going to do? Shoot 3's. And they missed them.

You couldn't be any more wrong, or blatantly stupid.

KU wasn't wide open in those shots.

A missed shot is a missed shot and many of KU's misses were wide open.VCU wasn't playing defense 15 feet from the basket because KU was shooting so poorly. If you want to rationalize 2/21, go ahead...VCU's free throw defense was awesome. The Rams forced KU into a 15/28(53.6%) day at the chrity stripe. Great job!!!!


Coach K did not go "Hmm J.J. Re**** is very good..I'm going to give the ball to him and let him do his thing."

Actually, he did. Redick took about 40% of duke's shots his senior season. The entire offense was designed to get him open looks.The same is true of the other players mentioned.

You literally proved my point by trying to bring up first round losses by my team 5 years ago

I guess the sarcasm escaped you. You made an obvious statement that I supported with obvious evidence.

Meanwhile, Self had designed plays (remember the 7 points KU got off inbound play dunks?

Those out-of-bounds plays were so state of the art that every team in America runs them. Sam Thompson has scored half of his points off of out of bounds plays. Even Matta has that play in his playbook. There was no genius at work. There was very poor defensive execution in play.

You shouldn't be on the internet if the word retard offends you.

I am not going to debate you over the use of the word RETARD. The word is offensive and should not be part of anybody's vocabulary(In the context in which it was used). Empathy for others is a character trait that you don't share with most human beings and that is a YOU problem.Good luck with that.

Self is a better coach than Matta at this point in time. But, to claim that OSU lost that game because Self out coached Matta is ridiculous.Self had better players.Self had bigger players. Self had more experienced players.