I was thinking recently, after watching RG3 look like a complete stud in his first pro season, which Heisman Trophy winners have been the best NFL players? I have been watching football since I was 7, so using that as my baseline, I can only give a 30-year opinion (I am 37). What say you?

1. Barry Sanders - no debate here, end of story
2. Tim Brown - stud, 1,094 receptions, 14,934 receiving yards, 105 TDs ... wow
3. Charles Woodson - I am no Michigan fan, but this guy is sick, 8-time Pro Bowler
4. Eddie George - 4-time Pro Bowler, 10,000+ rushing yards, never missed a start, scored 2 TDs in Super Bowl
5. RG3 - I know, he is a rookie, but I have watched him a lot this season -- he is THAT good right now

A few others to consider:

Herschel Walker - when you look at the numbers, only two seasons of 1,000+ yards rushing
Bo Jackson - LOVED Bo, but too short a career to have him higher, talent-wise probably #1 on this list
Ricky Williams - blessed with much talent and even more mental issues
Carson Palmer - very nice career

Thoughts? Did I miss any big ones?

Vinny Testaverde threw for over 46,000 yards in the NFL, he's gotta be in the top 5. Other than that, I agree with your top 4. Last year at this time I would've included Cam Newton.

I'd also consider Reggie Bush up there. While he hasn't been dominant, he's putting together some nice career numbers, albeit quietly.

No way is Reggie Bush in the top 5.

"have been" is the key word from your question. RGIII "has been" nothing because this is presently his first year. People using that standard of logic, probably had Cam Newton in the top 3 of all time LAST YEAR. (As many picked him in the 1st round of their fantasy drafts THIS YEAR).

I remember as far back as Andre Ware.

From 1 to 10 scale of goodness (without checking stats)

Andre Ware (1)
Ty Detmer (2)
Desmond Howard (2.5)
Gino Toretta (1)
Charlie Ward (1) - NBA
Rashaan Salaam (2) - But from his 1,000 yard rookie season, I then could have put HIM in the top 5 of ALL TIME Heismans (using your RGIII logic)
Eddie George (9)
Danny Wuerffel (1)
Charles Woodsen (9.5)
Ricky Williams (6.5)
Ron Dayne (2)
Chris Weinke (1)
Eric Crouch (1)
Carson Palmer (7)
Jason White (1)
Matt Leinert (2)
Reggie Bush (6.5)
Troy Smith (1.5)
Sam Bradford (5.5) - so far
Mark Ingram (1.5) - so far
Cam Newton - not enough time (future could be bright)
RGIII - not enough time (future bright)

Reggie is technically no longer eligible, as his Heisman has been revoked.

Trueblue23;1336564 wrote:No way is Reggie Bush in the top 5.

I wouldn't say he's top 5...but if you exclude Reggie, how can someone include RGIII?

I honestly think RG3 is playing at a higher level right now than any of my honorable mentions have at any peak point in their career ... he is on a different level right now. I get it, I want to see more, just saying that this guy is truly something special (and note, I am a Giants fan who hates the Redskins, so there is no bias here at all).

BigAppleBuckeye;1336572 wrote:I honestly think RG3 is playing at a higher level right now than any of my honorable mentions have at any peak point in their career ... he is on a different level right now. I get it, I want to see more, just saying that this guy is truly something special (and note, I am a Giants fan who hates the Redskins, so there is no bias here at all).

I agree. I may be scrutinizing it too hard. He seems really special.

This may miss it by a year or two but....

Marcus Allen is way up the list.

rydawg5;1336565 wrote:"have been" is the key word from your question. RGIII "has been" nothing because this is presently his first year. People using that standard of logic, probably had Cam Newton in the top 3 of all time LAST YEAR. (As many picked him in the 1st round of their fantasy drafts THIS YEAR).

I remember as far back as Andre Ware.

From 1 to 10 scale of goodness (without checking stats)

Andre Ware (1)
Ty Detmer (2)
Desmond Howard (2.5)
Gino Toretta (1)
Charlie Ward (1) - NBA
Rashaan Salaam (2) - But from his 1,000 yard rookie season, I then could have put HIM in the top 5 of ALL TIME Heismans (using your RGIII logic)
Eddie George (9)
Danny Wuerffel (1)
Charles Woodsen (9.5)
Ricky Williams (6.5)
Ron Dayne (2)
Chris Weinke (1)
Eric Crouch (1)
Carson Palmer (7)
Jason White (1)
Matt Leinert (2)
Reggie Bush (6.5)
Troy Smith (1.5)
Sam Bradford (5.5) - so far
Mark Ingram (1.5) - so far
Cam Newton - not enough time (future could be bright)
RGIII - not enough time (future bright)

No Barry Sanders?

Azubuike24;1336571 wrote:I wouldn't say he's top 5...but if you exclude Reggie, how can someone include RGIII?

I include RGIII and exclude Reggie because RGIII's rookie season has been better than Reggie's career.

Trueblue23;1337019 wrote:No Barry Sanders?

No I dont remember seeing him in college. As stated 'I remember as far back as Andre Ware'

Troy Smith. Undefeated as a starting QB.

There are only 2 to consider in the last 30 years:

Sanders and Woodson.

Sanders winning slightly, only because he left early (Could have had 6-7 more years of play). If Sanders would have played out his physical ability, I wouldn't have even mentioned Woodson.

It makes you wonder if the voters would like to reconsider passing Payton up two years.

Devils Advocate;1337453 wrote:It makes you wonder if the voters would like to reconsider passing Payton up two years.

probably not, sense voting for the heisman has absolutely nothing to do with your NFL Future.

ccrunner609;1337629 wrote:Heisman = death wish for a long NFL career

it has nothing to do with this.

shelf life of a heisman winner is > the non heisman player.

Archie Griffin played 7 yrs in the NFL which is 2.2x the Avg of any player that makes a final cut roster. And he accumulated over 5,200 multi purpose yds for a 5.6 yds / touch avg. Many people don't know Achie was 3 for 4 passing in the NFL . Suck on that Johnny Football.

Tiernan;1337698 wrote:Archie Griffin played 7 yrs in the NFL which is 2.2x the Avg of any player that makes a final cut roster. And he accumulated over 5,200 multi purpose yds for a 5.6 yds / touch avg. Many people don't know Achie was 3 for 4 passing in the NFL . Suck on that Johnny Football.

Johnny football cares not what archies passer rating was.

Trueblue23;1337020 wrote:I include RGIII and exclude Reggie because RGIII's rookie season has been better than Reggie's career.

Reggie Bush is a product of a TON of hype. Too much. With that said, he's 27 years old, has gained 4000 yards has 350+ receptions and has scored 41 TD's. He is just entering what is typically, the prime 2-4 seasons for an NFL running back.

To say he's terrible just isn't fair. He's just not Walter Payton or Gale Sayers...

hasbeen;1337704 wrote:Johnny football cares not what archies passer rating was.

His name is Johnny Manziel, so fuck that "football" bullshit. We'll see what he does next season when defenses scheme for him, and he's not the unknown entity he was this year. The hype being heaped on this kid is insane, and quite frankly, will make the expectations for him next year nearly impossible to attain.

I prefer Johnny "Man - zier" ...ala Kramer.