Getting Bored, where O where have Wcalfan and JMAR gone????

eyes r burning;1311896 wrote:Your kidding me right? If the whole district can see( thier are couple out there that can't)what the problem is and the people we have leading this district can"t??? I'm about people being held accountable, if we can't put this programs lapse on the coach then lets climb the chain, please you tell me!! who's next or wants or should be held accountable, if your in this district you should have an opinion, lets hear it!!

everyone has to be held accountable from top to bottom. i just get tired of everyone saying this and that. every coach has his own style of coaching. and just as coaches need to adjust there style for some teams, the players need to do there part too. and i know most people dont want to hear this but alot of it starts at home. if the kid hears how mr.zuercher is a worthless coach at home when zuercher tries to coach them up the kid isnt going to listen. ive seen it before and we will more then likely see it again.

eaglefutbol33;1311905 wrote:everyone has to be held accountable from top to bottom. i just get tired of everyone saying this and that. every coach has his own style of coaching. and just as coaches need to adjust there style for some teams, the players need to do there part too. and i know most people dont want to hear this but alot of it starts at home. if the kid hears how mr.zuercher is a worthless coach at home when zuercher tries to coach them up the kid isnt going to listen. ive seen it before and we will more then likely see it again.

So your telling me this coached, coached a team to to a 0-10 season, which must of been his syle and we should be okay with it? Cause this was no where near a 0-10 team. Your probably right, it's tha parents the only ones left in the stands!!! Soccer coach at Waynedale has to be the happy man on earth. We are THERE MAN, really if no changes are made I REALLY WANT WATCH THIS!!! it will be worse then the Chipps or Rittman!

Over 6 seasons Z is now 32-32 overall....but only 8-22 over the last 3 seasons...and 1-3 in playoff games.

And it sounds like the cupboard is bare.

If he is going to be the man long term at Waynedale, he needs to examine how he's done things up until now and realize he needs to make some changes in the way things are being done.

eyes r burning;1311907 wrote:So your telling me this coached, coached a team to to a 0-10 season, which must of been his syle and we should be okay with it? Cause this was no where near a 0-10 team. Your probably right, it's tha parents the only ones left in the stands!!! Soccer coach at Waynedale has to be the happy man on earth. We are THERE MAN, really if no changes are made I REALLY WANT WATCH THIS!!! it will be worse then the Chipps or Rittman!

i didnt say we should be okay with it. 0-10 is not acceptable. but as many people have already said he will be back.

eaglefutbol33;1311944 wrote:i didnt say we should be okay with it. 0-10 is not acceptable. but as many people have already said he will be back.

There's a reason he'll be back & the plan is for the next 3 seasons. After that look for a turnover in the programs, unless somehow he starts winning again. If you're involved in the the schools athletics at all: be it parent, alum, or current student, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

Just step back and look at the big picture and open your eyes.

MOUNTAINBEAR;1311863 wrote:jmar- help me understand here, why is this coach Z thing got you so defensive? Up in arms so to speak?

I'm defending a guy who is a good guy. Wants the best for the kids at Waynedale and his team. He has a .500 record. (I know it isn't a winning record but the biggest hit has been the last couple years... SORRY I BELIEVE THEY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH TALENT IN THOSE COUPLE YEARS!) Has made the playoffs. Won in the playoffs. Lost to a couple good teams. (sorry... Ursuline is not a fun team to play and I don't fault him or the boys playing that team) He makes the kids work hard in the weight room. Has a before school session and after school to accommodate for all the schedules. He expects a great amount out of the guys on and off the field.

It frustrates me to no end when some come on here and say he expects too much...sets the bar too high. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? I think this speaks volumes about the condition of our community. Those same people come on here and praise Louie Stanley to no end a few posts later. GUESS WHAT!!! HE EXPECTS THE SAME OUT OF HIS WRESTLERS!!! What is the difference? One thing stands out.... Winning. That's fine. I understand. What I think people are missing is that these two sports relate in the physical aspect but in reality they are two completely different sports. Just because you are good in one doesn't mean you are good in the other. (JON ZIMMERLY IS NOT A GOOD WRESTLER! ONE HECK OF FOOTBALL PLAYER!) I also understand that they are two different styles. Z is more hands on. Lou is laissez faire. I get it. Some works better for others and that is fine but as eaglefutbol said.... the kids need to be able to adjust to both not just the coach. It is a give and take relationship yet everything I read on here and hear from others in the school... its all take from one group... no give. (I hear from those in the schools its mainly the kids who want,want,want, but don't feel they need to give... On here it's Z is the wanter and is no giver) I know Louie doesn't do it a lot but he can be very hands on and demanding. I don't know if Z does that or not. I am not a coach for the football team at Waynedale despite what Eyes or you, Mr. Mountain, may think. Beast will back me up on that.

As for the football stuff... What I don't want to see is this program that I care deeply about go into the crapper because of a few loud and annoying people who can't separate themselves from the situation and their bias. They are upset after a couple bad seasons. If you are going to ask a guy not to come back, especially one as passionate about this community... it better be for the right reasons and not just because of the record the last couple years. I bet it was these same people (if they were around) in the early 2000's that wanted Seder out after 8-2,4-6,1-9, and 3-7. I don't want this program to do the Browns thing every couple years. I understand the passion we have for Waynedale football but you need to be able to separate yourself from that and I don't think many on here are doing that.

When I sit back and look at this team this year. I thought 5-5 maybe 6-4. I figured a loss to Ridgewood. Then Hillsdale/NWN/Nor then maybe the Triway game. Outside of Waynedale, I nailed the whole WCAL position wise. I even took it on the chin for saying Hillsdale and NWN were average at best. You put those two teams into the WCAL in the early 2000's. They would be mid pack or lower. (Smithville, Dalton would beat those guys by 30 and the 03' Waynedale team might hang 40 on them. The 01' 02' 03' Norwayne teams would split with those two teams from this year) I was fairly spot on with the OCC. I feel like I have a pretty good eye for these things and have been honest and up front in how I feel. I just don't think people are being honest about this team or this league this year. It's not very good. Not good at all outside of Norwayne. (Norwayne is the best team I've ever seen in the area and I've only seen them in person once since the dominance started) The expectations are always high at Waynedale (except if it is Z's expectations... those are too high...) It just isn't realistic with this years team in the wins/losses. Unfortunately I think we shouldn't expect a whole lot next year. Then we should see it go up some but I'm still not sure about the freshman class.... Where are the lineman? If some kids don't grow and put on mass and maybe sacrifice playing FB or TE or a skill position to get some horsepower upfront... they might only be a 6 or 7 win team... I dunno. That falls on them to work their butts off and buy into sacrificing and then on the staff to make those changes necessary.

On Z... I really think he is super smart when it comes to football.... maybe to a fault from the sounds of things. Maybe it came/comes so easy for him that he struggles with the kids where that doesn't happen. I'm not sure. I know that I loved football to the point where I was sponge and tried to understand everything about it. I was surrounded by 14 other guys who were very similiar and it just came easy to us. I have noticed in the last few years that this might not be the case anymore. It seems like kids have trouble understanding the game or don't care to understand it. Could be an issue and its up to him to solve that riddle.

I will admit that I wasn't really a fan of the platoon O/D at a small school. Then again... I can see where it would be thought that could be a good idea. Keep more kids intested and more kids getting experience... ect... Personally, I agree looking back that he made a boo boo. I think he would also change that decision if he could.

I don't think its his decision but when Kauffman left the jr high and Kirby Kiser/Denny Hendrix/Mr. Martell/and I'm sorry I forget the younger teams coach names were done with the youth program....I think the developement aspect of the program was lost. I haven't followed the jr. high really but I do know that they had like 6 undefeated or WCAL jr high champs... thats great but at that point in development and pee-wee's.... I would rather go 0-8 with ALL THE KIDS DEVELOPING over 8-0 and just a select 12 or 13 kids playing. If you can do both and get all kids involved, even better. What I do know is that when winning was going on... the 1's played the entire game... all together...for 3 quarters or more. If that is still happening... I think he needs to have a sit down with all the levels and get guys in the programs that will develop instead of win. I know he has little say in coaching at the jr high and really high school because of hiring practices and what not... It has been discussed that there was a period of time on here where the pee-wee's were lackluster at coaching because it was centered around certain kids... well... you can't have that and these last couple of classes were involved in that.

No one brings up burnout either. Those kids that "could come out now and really help"... are they burnt out? Is Z the excuse? One kid that has been brought up and is now just a wrestler... Maybe he is burnt out? He has wrestled and played football and baseball since he was 7. Now he just wrestles... hmmm?!?! If you ask me... I think he is burnt out on wrestling too... He does it because he is best at wrestling and has had more success in wrestling... but he almost never practices and is banged up all the time. Thank god he always shows up come meet time and somehow seems to have gas in the tank even though he has lost a couple matches because he lacked gas.... I think its more important that you participate in practices in football because of the execution aspect is much more important in football... this kid would never practice if he played football and therefore, not be much help at all... Maybe we should look at raising the pee-wee age to 4th grade and up for football and wrestling?!?! Just an idea. I would for sure consider raising it in football. Just an idea.

All in all I still see more positive than negative. EVEN WITH THE ERICH REBIE CONSPIRACY THEORY GOING ON. I don't think you make your change yet. If you bring in someone new right now... he won't succeed either. The problem is it will take time before we see results by anyone and possibly longer than Z has time left. It is what it is but I don't like the hasty decisions that people are wanting. Not yet. I firmly believe that Z or any coach could not and will not succeed at the level desired by the loudest ones on this forum and supposedly in our community for the next year or two. If it was up to me... I wouldn't make that change seeing what I see.

eyes r burning;1311891 wrote:No, JMAR is a ex teammate and he lives in the past, he was a great great football player (we get it, the boy was a football player). BUT HOW DOES THAT MAKE HIM A COACH???? Just my dumb$#$ thinking here, but the the problem is a little higher up the chain of the southeast local, please when do we vote on the next levy? And when is that borad meeting?

You really are annoying. Like 9 year old annoying. No... not a teammate of Z. No I didn't play for him when he became head coach. No I don't live in the past. In fact, I'd say I live more in the now and more looking forward than you give me credit for. Yes... you are not very smart. Why does the next levy matter? You're going to vote no on raising money for the school district to do what exactly?!?! If you think the problem is a little "higher up" at SE Local... you might be more concerned with the next school board voting term if you have a problem with the leadership at the school. I don't know if you know this... The board hires the superintendent. The super hires the principal and the board just says yes. (they just trust the super). Principal picks the staff. (once again... Board trusts the super... who trusts the principal). You can look on the SE Local website to find the date of the next BOARD meeting.

1_beast;1311395 wrote:Jmar is a tool

A hammer I hope....

Hunter86;1311959 wrote:There's a reason he'll be back & the plan is for the next 3 seasons. After that look for a turnover in the programs, unless somehow he starts winning again. If you're involved in the the schools athletics at all: be it parent, alum, or current student, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

Just step back and look at the big picture and open your eyes.

if you really think this is true you dont know him very well.

Rittman people would give tou Bill Dennis in exchange for a Troyers sandwich probably!

K-DOG86;1312207 wrote:Rittman people would give tou Bill Dennis in exchange for a Troyers sandwich probably!

I think the Troyer's sandwich would have more motivation than Dennis................

"Jmar Zuerchar".....Good guys don't always make good coaches.

jmar, I do see your point or points. To some extent. But in modern society its about winning....not who is a nice guy. I agree that a coach is gonna have to kick someone in the butt once in awhile, even yell, curse and push kids. Rather parents and kids like it or not. They want to be pansies, then go out for volleyball. I do not however agree that its a culture change or difference in society as portrayed to me earlier. Some of these things are the parents or the students, and I agree that somethings a headball coach cannot really do anything about. Country goes to crap, we blame President. School district goes to crap, they blame school board, a single school goes to crap, principle. A great football program takes a crap, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THE HEADBALL COACH. Does not mean he is an idiot, he may well be damn good football man. That jmar is society, here in small town american culture. So I am gonna be absent for a bit. But I'll be back.

eaglefutbol33;1312159 wrote:if you really think this is true you dont know him very well.

I think recently I found out more than I wanted to know, or even care to know at this point.

A few years from now it won't matter to either of us anyway.

It should be about what's best for the kids in the program, but it never is.

I wonder if this thread is about what’s better for the kids at Waynedale or the coach?

Furthermore, some posters on here keep blaming the parents for the failures on the football field. So that must mean that there are a lot of bad parents in Southeast Local, and for that matter, every other loosing school district. I guess Hillsdale and Norwayne got rid of their bad parents and replaced them with good ones. Just think about what you are suggesting for a minute, our soccer teams aren’t that great, golf team either now that Weaver is gone, how about baseball, or even basketball the last several years. Do all the kids that play those sports have bad parents too? Furthermore, are kids today doing different things than when most of us were kids? Sure, but I’m also certain that what we did when we were young was much different than what our parents did when they were kids. I got to watch TV, my parents didn’t have TV when they were kids. It’s a natural progression, like it or not. So do you think that all of the Waynedale kids sit around and play video games while the Bobcat kids are working out? They are all kids. There may be some physical size differences, but they are all into the same things. The Huskies weren’t huge, but they were competitive. I bet they play video games too.

For me anyway, it’s not nearly as much about wins and losses as it is about having the opportunity to win. It’s demoralizing as a player when you know you could be more competitive, but you’re not because the coach has something to prove. That’s where I believe Z has gone way wrong. Obvious coaching decisions were either made or not made that took away the opportunity to be competitive. It seems rather obvious to me that once he makes a decision on where to play a kid, especially in a “SKILL” position, he keeps them there even if they are not productive. I believe he does this because he is not the type of person who can admit he made a mistake. Again, have you ever heard Z say that he made coaching errors that cost the team a game? I haven’t. If you get the Daily Record you can go to their website, register, and then go read the last 3-5 years of game reports in the Saturday sports section.

Another thing that keeps coming up is the difference between Louie and Z. What would happen if in a couple of years, Louie had a bad run and the wrestling team was down for a few years, I mean really down. No WCAL wins, just a few kids go to districts, and none go to state. Would people want to get rid of him? No. Why? Because the kids and parents respect him. That is a winning combination. If Louie started to get stagnant as a coach and thought that the bad seasons were caused by him, would he step down or admit he made mistakes? You know he would. That’s why Z isn’t respected, he never sees himself as making a wrong decision. And that’s why Z will never reach the pinnacle like Louie has.

So keep protecting Z. At the end of the day you’re not hurting anybody except the kids that grew up wanting to play high school football for Waynedale. Most will still play, but some won’t. It’s already happening. Like I said at the beginning, do you want what’s best for the kids or the coach? Is Z a good person? Yes, but no more saintly than the rest of us. Has he been treated special? Absolutely. Is he deceitful? I think so. He tells the kids and parents one thing and then does something else. He has different rules for different kids, etc…… He has no intention of stepping down, even if it is in the best interest of the football program. His ego simply won’t let him do the right thing. I’m not even talking about resigning, just admitting he has made mistakes would be a step in the right direction, but I doubt that will happen. Like him or not, he’s not going anywhere. So start working on your parenting skills, take away the video games, tell the kids to suck it up, and wear blinders during the games. See if that helps.

Finally, will Waynedale win some games in the next few years? Yes they should win against the teams they’re supposed to beat. Will they be competitive against tougher teams? I doubt it.

Jmar25;1312024 wrote:I'm defending a guy who is a good guy. Wants the best for the kids at Waynedale and his team. He has a .500 record. (I know it isn't a winning record but the biggest hit has been the last couple years... SORRY I BELIEVE THEY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH TALENT IN THOSE COUPLE YEARS!) Has made the playoffs. Won in the playoffs. Lost to a couple good teams. (sorry... Ursuline is not a fun team to play and I don't fault him or the boys playing that team) He makes the kids work hard in the weight room. Has a before school session and after school to accommodate for all the schedules. He expects a great amount out of the guys on and off the field.

It frustrates me to no end when some come on here and say he expects too much...sets the bar too high. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? I think this speaks volumes about the condition of our community. Those same people come on here and praise Louie Stanley to no end a few posts later. GUESS WHAT!!! HE EXPECTS THE SAME OUT OF HIS WRESTLERS!!! What is the difference? One thing stands out.... Winning. That's fine. I understand. What I think people are missing is that these two sports relate in the physical aspect but in reality they are two completely different sports. Just because you are good in one doesn't mean you are good in the other. (JON ZIMMERLY IS NOT A GOOD WRESTLER! ONE HECK OF FOOTBALL PLAYER!) I also understand that they are two different styles. Z is more hands on. Lou is laissez faire. I get it. Some works better for others and that is fine but as eaglefutbol said.... the kids need to be able to adjust to both not just the coach. It is a give and take relationship yet everything I read on here and hear from others in the school... its all take from one group... no give. (I hear from those in the schools its mainly the kids who want,want,want, but don't feel they need to give... On here it's Z is the wanter and is no giver) I know Louie doesn't do it a lot but he can be very hands on and demanding. I don't know if Z does that or not. I am not a coach for the football team at Waynedale despite what Eyes or you, Mr. Mountain, may think. Beast will back me up on that.

As for the football stuff... What I don't want to see is this program that I care deeply about go into the crapper because of a few loud and annoying people who can't separate themselves from the situation and their bias. They are upset after a couple bad seasons. If you are going to ask a guy not to come back, especially one as passionate about this community... it better be for the right reasons and not just because of the record the last couple years. I bet it was these same people (if they were around) in the early 2000's that wanted Seder out after 8-2,4-6,1-9, and 3-7. I don't want this program to do the Browns thing every couple years. I understand the passion we have for Waynedale football but you need to be able to separate yourself from that and I don't think many on here are doing that.

When I sit back and look at this team this year. I thought 5-5 maybe 6-4. I figured a loss to Ridgewood. Then Hillsdale/NWN/Nor then maybe the Triway game. Outside of Waynedale, I nailed the whole WCAL position wise. I even took it on the chin for saying Hillsdale and NWN were average at best. You put those two teams into the WCAL in the early 2000's. They would be mid pack or lower. (Smithville, Dalton would beat those guys by 30 and the 03' Waynedale team might hang 40 on them. The 01' 02' 03' Norwayne teams would split with those two teams from this year) I was fairly spot on with the OCC. I feel like I have a pretty good eye for these things and have been honest and up front in how I feel. I just don't think people are being honest about this team or this league this year. It's not very good. Not good at all outside of Norwayne. (Norwayne is the best team I've ever seen in the area and I've only seen them in person once since the dominance started) The expectations are always high at Waynedale (except if it is Z's expectations... those are too high...) It just isn't realistic with this years team in the wins/losses. Unfortunately I think we shouldn't expect a whole lot next year. Then we should see it go up some but I'm still not sure about the freshman class.... Where are the lineman? If some kids don't grow and put on mass and maybe sacrifice playing FB or TE or a skill position to get some horsepower upfront... they might only be a 6 or 7 win team... I dunno. That falls on them to work their butts off and buy into sacrificing and then on the staff to make those changes necessary.

On Z... I really think he is super smart when it comes to football.... maybe to a fault from the sounds of things. Maybe it came/comes so easy for him that he struggles with the kids where that doesn't happen. I'm not sure. I know that I loved football to the point where I was sponge and tried to understand everything about it. I was surrounded by 14 other guys who were very similiar and it just came easy to us. I have noticed in the last few years that this might not be the case anymore. It seems like kids have trouble understanding the game or don't care to understand it. Could be an issue and its up to him to solve that riddle.

I will admit that I wasn't really a fan of the platoon O/D at a small school. Then again... I can see where it would be thought that could be a good idea. Keep more kids intested and more kids getting experience... ect... Personally, I agree looking back that he made a boo boo. I think he would also change that decision if he could.

I don't think its his decision but when Kauffman left the jr high and Kirby Kiser/Denny Hendrix/Mr. Martell/and I'm sorry I forget the younger teams coach names were done with the youth program....I think the developement aspect of the program was lost. I haven't followed the jr. high really but I do know that they had like 6 undefeated or WCAL jr high champs... thats great but at that point in development and pee-wee's.... I would rather go 0-8 with ALL THE KIDS DEVELOPING over 8-0 and just a select 12 or 13 kids playing. If you can do both and get all kids involved, even better. What I do know is that when winning was going on... the 1's played the entire game... all together...for 3 quarters or more. If that is still happening... I think he needs to have a sit down with all the levels and get guys in the programs that will develop instead of win. I know he has little say in coaching at the jr high and really high school because of hiring practices and what not... It has been discussed that there was a period of time on here where the pee-wee's were lackluster at coaching because it was centered around certain kids... well... you can't have that and these last couple of classes were involved in that.

No one brings up burnout either. Those kids that "could come out now and really help"... are they burnt out? Is Z the excuse? One kid that has been brought up and is now just a wrestler... Maybe he is burnt out? He has wrestled and played football and baseball since he was 7. Now he just wrestles... hmmm?!?! If you ask me... I think he is burnt out on wrestling too... He does it because he is best at wrestling and has had more success in wrestling... but he almost never practices and is banged up all the time. Thank god he always shows up come meet time and somehow seems to have gas in the tank even though he has lost a couple matches because he lacked gas.... I think its more important that you participate in practices in football because of the execution aspect is much more important in football... this kid would never practice if he played football and therefore, not be much help at all... Maybe we should look at raising the pee-wee age to 4th grade and up for football and wrestling?!?! Just an idea. I would for sure consider raising it in football. Just an idea.

All in all I still see more positive than negative. EVEN WITH THE ERICH REBIE CONSPIRACY THEORY GOING ON. I don't think you make your change yet. If you bring in someone new right now... he won't succeed either. The problem is it will take time before we see results by anyone and possibly longer than Z has time left. It is what it is but I don't like the hasty decisions that people are wanting. Not yet. I firmly believe that Z or any coach could not and will not succeed at the level desired by the loudest ones on this forum and supposedly in our community for the next year or two. If it was up to me... I wouldn't make that change seeing what I see.

OKAY already, I will back off. I just need to realize that the boys in the southeast local are different then every other district in the state. I get now and you won't hear another peep from me, going to start following the Cats.

MOUNTAINBEAR;1312464 wrote:jmar, I do see your point or points. To some extent. But in modern society its about winning....not who is a nice guy. I agree that a coach is gonna have to kick someone in the butt once in awhile, even yell, curse and push kids. Rather parents and kids like it or not. They want to be pansies, then go out for volleyball. I do not however agree that its a culture change or difference in society as portrayed to me earlier. Some of these things are the parents or the students, and I agree that somethings a headball coach cannot really do anything about. Country goes to crap, we blame President. School district goes to crap, they blame school board, a single school goes to crap, principle. A great football program takes a crap, IT WILL ALWAYS BE THE HEADBALL COACH. Does not mean he is an idiot, he may well be damn good football man. That jmar is society, here in small town american culture. So I am gonna be absent for a bit. But I'll be back.

No I completely understand that mentality. I think some need reminded too that this is just high school football. I just think that if the talent is not there in the next couple of years. (and its not/won't be ready), why bring in someone new and put them through this garbage that is going on. I think it would be very ignorant to think the new guy won't catch heck if they only win 3 or 4 games in his first two years.

Honestly... We won't compete until at least two years from now and if we go to another coach who changes everything around, we could ruin that opportunity and of course there is the chance we could not. I would like to play it safe and keep a coach who has proven he can win and cares about the kids/community than gamble with our next shot at competing for a WCAL/Playoff run.

If the job doesn't get done... then fine... do whatever needs to be done.

BAD_NEWS_BEAR;1312752 wrote:I wonder if this thread is about what’s better for the kids at Waynedale or the coach?

Furthermore, some posters on here keep blaming the parents for the failures on the football field. So that must mean that there are a lot of bad parents in Southeast Local, and for that matter, every other loosing school district. I guess Hillsdale and Norwayne got rid of their bad parents and replaced them with good ones. Just think about what you are suggesting for a minute, our soccer teams aren’t that great, golf team either now that Weaver is gone, how about baseball, or even basketball the last several years. Do all the kids that play those sports have bad parents too? Furthermore, are kids today doing different things than when most of us were kids? Sure, but I’m also certain that what we did when we were young was much different than what our parents did when they were kids. I got to watch TV, my parents didn’t have TV when they were kids. It’s a natural progression, like it or not. So do you think that all of the Waynedale kids sit around and play video games while the Bobcat kids are working out? They are all kids. There may be some physical size differences, but they are all into the same things. The Huskies weren’t huge, but they were competitive. I bet they play video games too.

For me anyway, it’s not nearly as much about wins and losses as it is about having the opportunity to win. It’s demoralizing as a player when you know you could be more competitive, but you’re not because the coach has something to prove. That’s where I believe Z has gone way wrong. Obvious coaching decisions were either made or not made that took away the opportunity to be competitive. It seems rather obvious to me that once he makes a decision on where to play a kid, especially in a “SKILL” position, he keeps them there even if they are not productive. I believe he does this because he is not the type of person who can admit he made a mistake. Again, have you ever heard Z say that he made coaching errors that cost the team a game? I haven’t. If you get the Daily Record you can go to their website, register, and then go read the last 3-5 years of game reports in the Saturday sports section.

Another thing that keeps coming up is the difference between Louie and Z. What would happen if in a couple of years, Louie had a bad run and the wrestling team was down for a few years, I mean really down. No WCAL wins, just a few kids go to districts, and none go to state. Would people want to get rid of him? No. Why? Because the kids and parents respect him. That is a winning combination. If Louie started to get stagnant as a coach and thought that the bad seasons were caused by him, would he step down or admit he made mistakes? You know he would. That’s why Z isn’t respected, he never sees himself as making a wrong decision. And that’s why Z will never reach the pinnacle like Louie has.

So keep protecting Z. At the end of the day you’re not hurting anybody except the kids that grew up wanting to play high school football for Waynedale. Most will still play, but some won’t. It’s already happening. Like I said at the beginning, do you want what’s best for the kids or the coach? Is Z a good person? Yes, but no more saintly than the rest of us. Has he been treated special? Absolutely. Is he deceitful? I think so. He tells the kids and parents one thing and then does something else. He has different rules for different kids, etc…… He has no intention of stepping down, even if it is in the best interest of the football program. His ego simply won’t let him do the right thing. I’m not even talking about resigning, just admitting he has made mistakes would be a step in the right direction, but I doubt that will happen. Like him or not, he’s not going anywhere. So start working on your parenting skills, take away the video games, tell the kids to suck it up, and wear blinders during the games. See if that helps.

Finally, will Waynedale win some games in the next few years? Yes they should win against the teams they’re supposed to beat. Will they be competitive against tougher teams? I doubt it.

The state of our schools (all of them) is different then they were 10 years ago and WAY DIFFERENT than 20+ years ago. Ours is in a rough spot right now and until a group or two comes along and changes that... we won't have as many bright spots athletically. I think you're wrong to assume their hasn't been a change in our kids coming in... I don't want to bring it up but Heck... One kid everyone was clamoring for to play the last year I guess just got in big trouble with the law.... Another one you might see here soon... There is some other stuff happening that makes me sick.

It doesn't all go back to parenting but when you the parent tell your kid the coach sucks and don't respect him and your kids overhear all the crap that is being said at the games and in their friends houses about how awful the coach is and then see the stuff on here saying he's a snake. What in the Heck do you expect the kids to do/think?!?!?

Jmar25;1312983 wrote:
It doesn't all go back to parenting but when you the parent tell your kid the coach sucks and don't respect him and your kids overhear all the crap that is being said at the games and in their friends houses about how awful the coach is and then see the stuff on here saying he's a snake. What in the Heck do you expect the kids to do/think?!?!?

It's the other way around, the kids are coming home with the word that the coach sucks & can't relate to them. Yeah they're hearing it from other kids that played for him; some that no longer play and some that still do.

I personally don't think he's a snake, but he has the personality that intimidates some & drives the rest away that don't want to hear it.

If he truly wants what's best for the kids & the school, then he needs to drop the alpha male bs and humble his ego a bit. That would go a long way toward his gaining respect from the kids and parents alike.

Hunter86;1313143 wrote:It's the other way around, the kids are coming home with the word that the coach sucks & can't relate to them. Yeah they're hearing it from other kids that played for him; some that no longer play and some that still do.

I personally don't think he's a snake, but he has the personality that intimidates some & drives the rest away that don't want to hear it.

If he truly wants what's best for the kids & the school, then he needs to drop the alpha male bs and humble his ego a bit. That would go a long way toward his gaining respect from the kids and parents alike.

Ok. I see the difference in opinions now. The kids don't like his personality, so they assume because of that, he sucks as a coach. All the problems on the kids side have little to do with him actually trying to teach kids about football. Correct?

So are you more inclined to ask him back if he does as you suggest and lets say... has a record of 3-7 next year?

Jmar25;1313177 wrote:
So are you more inclined to ask him back if he does as you suggest and lets say... has a record of 3-7 next year?

I thought this year we should have been 5 and 5.

No we aren't a powerhouse, but 5 games were still winnable.

3 and 7 while an improvement is still below what (even the current crop of video game playing, slacker parented group of kids you say we have now) is capable of.

I think with an attitude overhaul (both the coach and the players) that next season 5 and 5 is entirely possible.

0 and 10 next year ?

Then it's time the whole program from diapers to diplomas gets a major teardown & rebuild.

Hunter86;1313237 wrote:I thought this year we should have been 5 and 5.

No we aren't a powerhouse, but 5 games were still winnable.

3 and 7 while an improvement is still below what (even the current crop of video game playing, slacker parented group of kids you say we have now) is capable of.

I think with an attitude overhaul (both the coach and the players) that next season 5 and 5 is entirely possible.

0 and 10 next year ?

Then it's time the whole program from diapers to diplomas gets a major teardown & rebuild.

fair enough

Hunter86;1313237 wrote: I think with an attitude overhaul (both the coach and the players) that next season 5 and 5 is entirely possible.

correct.

the attitude overhaul needs to go through the whole school not just football. there used to be a time when people were proud to be from waynedale and i dont think that is the case anymore.

eaglefutbol33;1313519 wrote:correct.

the attitude overhaul needs to go through the whole school not just football. there used to be a time when people were proud to be from waynedale and i dont think that is the case anymore.

I think the pride is still showing somewhat;

Last year's wrestling team :thumbup:

This fall's girls varsity volleyball team :thumbup: (best school wins record & no senior players !)

The others will come.

There's still pride left, it just needs rearranged.