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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 12:21pm
I'd rather start with D-Wade. Really not that laughable. You literally just said having an elite two guard is the biggest advantage you can have in the NBA.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Feb 22, 2013 12:21pm
You're not understanding what I'm saying. CP3 is still a far superior basketball player. The fact that dwade is in the top 3 SG in the league isn't a positive for him. He sucks and I hate the way he plays the game. Its more of an statement on the status of the position. CP3 at PG > Dwade at SG.trep14;1394224 wrote:Exactly. Good post. I just think it gets tossed around to much that CP3 is one of the top 3 players in the league for what he actually brings to a team if you want to win a championship. In terms of talent, he's really good. I wouldn't not want him on my team ( and yes I am using a double negative). It's just that for where he's valued at there are other guys who I think give you a better chance to win when the chips are down. That is all I am saying.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Feb 22, 2013 12:21pm
It's pretty laughable. CP3 is the top PG in the league, and a top 3 player overall. Dwade is #2-4 at his position and arguably a top 30 player.trep14;1394226 wrote:I'd rather start with D-Wade. Really not that laughable.
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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 12:24pm
I think Wade gives you a better chance to win when the chips are down. CP3 is not a top 3 player in the NBA simply for the fact that on good teams, point guards really do not matter.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Feb 22, 2013 12:24pm
EZ. Maybe a few years ago it could have been the opposite. Dwade has regressed a lot.Commander of Awesome;1394225 wrote:Yea that's laughable. CP3 > Dwade
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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 12:25pm
I mean look at the point guards on the championship teams in the past decade. Its a who's who list of irrelevance except for Parker in 2007 when he lit up a terrible Cavs backcourt in the Finals on a team that Tim Duncan was by far and away the best player on.
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Feb 22, 2013 12:25pm
sleeper;1394233 wrote:EZ. Maybe a few years ago it could have been the opposite. Dwade has regressed a lot.
I think a few years ago they were "equals"
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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 12:27pm
Chalmers, 85 year old Jason Kidd, Fisher x2, Rondo when he was young and mediocre, Parker, Jason Williams, Parker, Billups. Not one of them other than Parker and maybe Billups was even a top 10 point guard in the league at the time they won. And none of them were anywhere close to pure point guards like Paul is. He is overvalued in the NBA simply because you don't need a top tier point guard to win, it is a luxury.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Feb 22, 2013 12:29pm
You're right, when Billups at the PG position beat the Lakers with the best wing player in the game at that time really shows how great the wing position is and PGs don't matter. Same with The Cavs spurs finals. All about the best wing player in the game (LBJ) and Tony Parker lol lol lol.trep14;1394240 wrote:Chalmers, 85 year old Jason Kidd, Fisher x2, Rondo when he was young and mediocre, Parker, Jason Williams, Parker, Billups. Not one of them other than Parker and maybe Billups was even a top 10 point guard in the league at the time they won. And none of them were anywhere close to pure point guards like Paul is.
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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 12:35pm
Duncan was by far and away the best player on the Spurs team. Pistons were a collective team effort, if anything everyone on that team deserved finals MVP. Those are the only two teams with even decent point guards on their team that won a championship. The rest of the teams that have won the championship have point guards that ranged from the 3rd to 5th best player on the team, most of the time it being closer to 5th best. Please tell me again how that makes the point guard position very important?Commander of Awesome;1394243 wrote:You're right, when Billups at the PG position beat the Lakers with the best wing player in the game at that time really shows how great the wing position is and PGs don't matter. Same with The Cavs spurs finals. All about the best wing player in the game (LBJ) and Tony Parker lol lol lol.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Feb 22, 2013 12:39pm
First of all, every position on the court is important. Again, you said wing players, I pointed out the wing play of the last few championship teams. You ignored that, fine. We get it, you love Dwade. Cool.trep14;1394247 wrote:Duncan was by far and away the best player on the Spurs team. Pistons were a collective team effort, if anything everyone on that team deserved finals MVP. Those are the only two teams with even decent point guards on their team that won a championship. The rest of the teams that have won the championship have point guards that ranged from the 3rd to 5th best player on the team, most of the time it being closer to 5th best. Please tell me again how that makes the point guard position very important?
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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 12:43pm
There will always be exceptions to the rule. But you can make the argument that the best player at every other position has led a team to a championship in the past 10 years. Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, Pierce/Garnett. You can't make that argument for point guards. The best point guards haven't even made it far in the playoffs recently. It is what is.Commander of Awesome;1394250 wrote:First of all, every position on the court is important. Again, you said wing players, I pointed out the wing play of the last few championship teams. You ignored that, fine. We get it, you love Dwade. Cool.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Feb 22, 2013 12:48pm
Except CP3 has made the playoffs. He even took a Hornets team that had ZERO business making the playoffs to the playoffs.trep14;1394253 wrote:There will always be exceptions to the rule. But you can make the argument that the best player at every other position has led a team to a championship in the past 10 years. Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, Pierce/Garnett. You can't make that argument for point guards. The best point guards haven't even made it far in the playoffs recently. It is what is.
Rondo has made the playoffs (let me guess, doesn't count bc he has Pierce and Garnett?) Tony Parker, Steve Nash with the Suns, Rose with the Bulls, Grizzley with Conley, Nuggets with Lawson, Westbrook with OKC?
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Feb 22, 2013 12:51pm
trep14;1394253 wrote:There will always be exceptions to the rule. But you can make the argument that the best player at every other position has led a team to a championship in the past 10 years. Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, Pierce/Garnett. You can't make that argument for point guards. The best point guards haven't even made it far in the playoffs recently. It is what is.
2 years ago Rose was arguably the best point guard in the League. Bulls went to the conference finals.
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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 1:54pm
I didn't say they didn't make the playoffs. I said they haven't particularly made it far. And I said I would take Rose/Westbrook over Paul easily above. They are more gamebreakers than Paul is. And half of those guys are nowhere near great point guards. No one is confusing Conley/Lawson with top 5 point guards in the league.Commander of Awesome;1394261 wrote:Except CP3 has made the playoffs. He even took a Hornets team that had ZERO business making the playoffs to the playoffs.
Rondo has made the playoffs (let me guess, doesn't count bc he has Pierce and Garnett?) Tony Parker, Steve Nash with the Suns, Rose with the Bulls, Grizzley with Conley, Nuggets with Lawson, Westbrook with OKC?
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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 1:55pm
Said I would take Rose before Paul. Better player. More of a gamebreaker. The kind of guy who can lead you to a playoff series win.
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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 1:58pm
If Chris Paul leads a team to the finals he will change my mind. But I don't think he will because I don't think his game suits leading a team far in the playoffs because point guard play really isn't that important in the playoffs. The data supports it. You have to go all the way back to Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson to find a team where the point guard was definitively the best player on a championship team.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Feb 22, 2013 2:15pm
Billups arguably a top 10 pg when he won a title?! What?! Lol
karen lotz
Posts: 22,284
Feb 22, 2013 2:23pm
Chris Paul was thoroughly roasted by Frenchie last night. He is really good, but he isn't far and away the best PG in the league.
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trep14
Posts: 842
Feb 22, 2013 2:26pm
He was 5th in scoring on 39% shooting among point guards and 13th in assists among Point Guards that season. On a team that had above average starters at every position. Yeah I don't think anyone is going to say he was top 5. Arguably top 10 sounds about right. Certainly wasn't "one of the best point guards in the league". Those numbers are like what Brandon Jennings is doing this year. You don't see anyone saying "my top 5 point guards are chris paul, russell westbrook, rajon rondo, kyrie irving, and brandon jennings" do you?SportsAndLady;1394312 wrote:Billups arguably a top 10 pg when he won a title?! What?! Lol
Ironman92
Posts: 49,363
Feb 22, 2013 2:28pm
Commander of Awesome;1394229 wrote:It's pretty laughable. CP3 is the top PG in the league, and a top 3 player overall. Dwade is #2-4 at his position and arguably a top 30 player.
....in the playoffs he will get a shit ton of calls to get him to the line, to boost his worth some for sure
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Feb 22, 2013 2:29pm
You know lotz about sports.karen lotz;1394319 wrote:Chris Paul was thoroughly roasted by Frenchie last night. He is really good, but he isn't far and away the best PG in the league.
karen lotz
Posts: 22,284
Feb 22, 2013 2:46pm
you know more.Commander of Awesome;1394328 wrote:You know lotz about sports.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
Feb 22, 2013 2:50pm
So do a lot of people, including most on this site.karen lotz;1394344 wrote:you know more.
karen lotz
Posts: 22,284
Feb 22, 2013 3:01pm
Commander of Awesome;1394347 wrote:So do a lot of people, including most on this site.
you don't get how sarcasm works. You say I know lotz about sports, sarcastically implying I don't know anything about sports. I say you know more, sarcastically implying you know less than I do. So your last comment sarcastically implies most on this site know less than I do about sports. SELFPWNFAIL. Can't wait for your butthurt response.