Rotinaj;1393527 wrote:Production is all that matters.

Kwame brown is going to be a beast.

^ Kwame Brown never had production anywhere near Dion's current line. He averaged 5 points and 4 rebounds as a rookie. Your post makes no sense.

lhslep134;1393522 wrote:Only in production, not long term.

Not even sure what this means. That's like saying "Well only in actual game play, not potential game play". :rolleyes:

When Dion was coming off the bench, he was puttting up better numbers in nearly every statistical category than any other 6th men out there.

GOONx19;1393541 wrote:^ Kwame Brown never had production anywhere near Dion's current line. He averaged 5 points and 4 rebounds as a rookie. Your post makes no sense.

Quoted the wrong person. Just a sarcastic response anyways

Pick6;1393555 wrote:When Dion was coming off the bench, he was puttting up better numbers in nearly every statistical category than any other 6th men out there.

Including JR Smith and Jamal Crawford.

hoops23;1393586 wrote:Including JR Smith and Jamal Crawford.

correct.

sleeper;1393550 wrote:Not even sure what this means. That's like saying "Well only in actual game play, not potential game play". :rolleyes:

Fine I'll be more explicit. In no f*cking fantasy world is Dion the 2nd best rookie in this class. Anthony Davis is.

There, does that clear it up?

lhslep134;1393612 wrote:Fine I'll be more explicit. In no f*cking fantasy world is Dion the 2nd best rookie in this class. Anthony Davis is.

There, does that clear it up?

Meh, its possible. Just because Lilliard is having a good rookie season, doesnt mean he can maintain it. And its really not that much better than Dion. He is shooting 41% compared to Dion's 40%, playing 38.5 minutes per game compared to Dion's 29.5 and is only averaging 4 more points per game.

Dion's PER 48 is actually better at 23.1 PPG compared to Lilliard's 22.9
I would say Dion's ceiling is higher than Lilliard's.

lhslep134;1393612 wrote:Fine I'll be more explicit. In no f*cking fantasy world is Dion the 2nd best rookie in this class. Anthony Davis is.

There, does that clear it up?

Have you watched Davis play? Dude is the next Hasheem Thabeet; wouldn't be surprised to see him in the D-league next year.

Pick6;1393623 wrote:Meh, its possible. Just because Lilliard is having a good rookie season, doesnt mean he can maintain it. And its really not that much better than Dion. He is shooting 41% compared to Dion's 40%, playing 38.5 minutes per game compared to Dion's 29.5 and is only averaging 4 more points per game.

Dion's PER 48 is actually better at 23.1 PPG compared to Lilliard's 22.9
I would say Dion's ceiling is higher than Lilliard's.

This is the exact reason advanced stats were created and why you can't just look at PPG.

Here are the categories Lillard is better at than Waiters statistically (and actually):

PER
True shooting percentage
Effective field goal percentage
[Their rebounding percentages are close enough to be negligible]
Assist percentage
Offensive rating (defensive rating is the same for both)
Win shares (3.5 to .6)

So really, it's not that close between the two

Dion is also option #2 or #3 at best on the Cavs. I think Lillard is better, but Dion isn't too far off.

lhslep134;1393645 wrote:This is the exact reason advanced stats were created and why you can't just look at PPG.

Here are the categories Lillard is better at than Waiters statistically (and actually):

PER
True shooting percentage
Effective field goal percentage
[Their rebounding percentages are close enough to be negligible]
Assist percentage
Offensive rating (defensive rating is the same for both)
Win shares (3.5 to .6)

So really, it's not that close between the two

The three bolded are kind of no brainers.

Of course Dion isn't going to have a higher assist%, he's not a PG. However, he can handle the rock and make plays by getting to the basket and either finishing, getting fouled, or dumping it off.

Dion's offensive game is inconsistent thus far, but you can see his offensive potential is through the roof. He doesn't have the talent around him that Lillard does either. Kyrie is the best player on either team, but Portland is a more complete team with better vets.

Win shares... Again, Portland is a better team.

As it is, you can definitely make the case the Waiters is one of the top 2 rookies in this class, and at WORST the 3rd. That's saying A LOT, especially since he was picked 4th, but projected in the 8-10 range. The Cavs scouting department really has done a great job with these guys.

Look at the improvement of Tristan in his first 15 months or so. Amazing progress. Dion has a good work ethic by all accounts and his game will continue to get better. He kept the Cavs afloat last night until Kyrie took the 4th quarter over.

Yeah TT has really blossomed nicely. He's a much better player than Davis will ever be and we got him at #4. Davis is so overrated; really a garbage player.

So how far away are the Cavs from being a bottom playoff team? A winning playoff team? A title contender?

One year from playoffs. One player and two years away from being a winning playoff team. Two players and four years from title contenders, excluding injuries and loss of free agents.

Ironman92;1393656 wrote:So how far away are the Cavs from being a bottom playoff team? A winning playoff team? A title contender?

I think they are going to hit both metrics next year besides title contender. I believe they will be a title contender in two years.

GOONx19;1393659 wrote:One year from playoffs. One player and two years away from being a winning playoff team. Two players and four years from title contenders, excluding injuries and loss of free agents.

And this is assuming they do not get Lebron.

sleeper;1393632 wrote:Have you watched Davis play? Dude is the next Hasheem Thabeet; wouldn't be surprised to see him in the D-league next year.

He did a pretty good job on TT last night.

GOONx19;1393672 wrote:And this is assuming they do not get Lebron.

What if they do?

Pick6;1393675 wrote:He did a pretty good job on TT last night.

Lol

Midstate01;1393683 wrote:Lol

2-8 shooting.

Pick6;1393675 wrote:He did a pretty good job on TT last night.

lol? No he didn't. TT > Davis and it's not even close.

Pick6;1393685 wrote:2-8 shooting.

Davis, 2-7 shooting, 4 rebounds 12 points.

TT, 2-8 shooting, 13 rebounds, 9 points.

I'll take TT any day of the week.

sleeper;1393687 wrote:Davis, 2-7 shooting, 4 rebounds 12 points.

TT, 2-8 shooting, 13 rebounds, 9 points.

I'll take TT any day of the week.

I never said he played better. I said he did a solid job on defense in holding TT to 25% shooting last night, and kept him below his average in scoring. No way in hell is Davis another Thabeet.