Belly35;1198082 wrote:Someday many of you unbeliever will rethink your opinion

In His time, not ours.

Where did the bacteria come from?

DeyDurkie5;1197725 wrote:How do you feel about religion, as you don't follow sleeper around enough to make it clear.

LOL...okay? :rolleyes:

I Wear Pants;1197984 wrote:Did you skip all of your science classes?

So anyone who questions the current 'modus operandi' in the scientific community 'skipped all of their science classes'?

I'm sure you don't feel that way about Capernicus, Galileo, Einstein, and even Darwin are all scientists who went against the current scientific 'consensus' and developed science that the scientific community now view as fact.

Einstein was so bothered by the fact that his theory of relativity and quantum mechanics is all about probability (not exact locations/speeds like Newtonian Physics was) that he spent years trying to 'fix' his theory as he was once quoted as saying "God doesn't play dice with the Universe".

The current scientific consensus of Einstein's day was so entrenched in him that it took him a VERY long time to even believe his own conclusions.

So, by design, science is to gain knowledge and truth about how the universe works, there are times when you have to balk at the current dogma/beliefs. And yes, I do mean both scientific AND religious 'dogmas'.

O-Trap;1198041 wrote:Was gonna post something of substance, but ... eh ... what's the point?

Funny thing was I saw that you posted and clicked on the thread (wasn't going to seeing it was sleeper's) hoping to read your insight.

Then I realized you were right and it would just be pointless when it comes to some on this thread. You can't discuss intelligently on this topic with a few on the OC, they quickly go to ad hominem attacks and leave it at that.

Sonofanump;1198104 wrote:Where did the bacteria come from?

Honestly, I don't think our brains are capable of understanding this. Our brain thinks in terms of beginnings and ends. But who's to say that is even the case?

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? These questions will NEVER be answered.

Belly35;1198082 wrote:Someday many of you unbeliever will rethink your opinion

Con_Alma;1198083 wrote:In His time, not ours.

These posts are just as "arrogant" as sleeper's, IMO. I know sleeper has a much harsher way of stating his opinion but you're basically saying the same thing. I.E. I'm right, you're wrong.

I don't believe in god anymore and don't see myself going back anytime soon. That said, I have no idea. No one has any idea and probably never will. I think this can be a productive thread as long as everyone can keep their emotions out of it and respect everyone else's views. Also, if sleeper starts railing against people that believe in god any harder I can just thread ban him.

jmog;1198132 wrote:Funny thing was I saw that you posted and clicked on the thread (wasn't going to seeing it was sleeper's) hoping to read your insight.

Then I realized you were right and it would just be pointless when it comes to some on this thread. You can't discuss intelligently on this topic with a few on the OC, they quickly go to ad hominem attacks and leave it at that.

See my previous post. I'll give sleeper one shot at not attacking people and their views so harshly. We can make this an intelligent discussion if everyone agrees to keep it civil.

WebFire;1198136 wrote:Honestly, I don't think our brains are capable of understanding this. Our brain thinks in terms of beginnings and ends. But who's to say that is even the case?

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? These questions will NEVER be answered.

I agree 100%.

justincredible;1198141 wrote:See my previous post. I'll give sleeper one shot at not attacking people and their views so harshly. We can make this an intelligent discussion if everyone agrees to keep it civil.

Voted

WebFire;1198136 wrote:Honestly, I don't think our brains are capable of understanding this. Our brain thinks in terms of beginnings and ends. But who's to say that is even the case?

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? These questions will NEVER be answered.

The egg came first. It was simply an advantageous mutation of another species over millions of years that allowed the "chicken" to be created. This species had the correct adaptations to survive in its environment.

The only thing evolution has trouble with is explaining the first species and how life started. Then again, no one knows, and no scientist will claim that he does know. Billions of people know though, just ask a believer, they know without a doubt and live their entire lives based on that knowledge.

sleeper;1198210 wrote:The egg came first. It was simply an advantageous mutation of another species over millions of years that allowed the "chicken" to be created. This species had the correct adaptations to survive in its environment.

The only thing evolution has trouble with is explaining the first species and how life started. Then again, no one knows, and no scientist will claim that he does know. Billions of people know though, just ask a believer, they know without a doubt and live their entire lives based on that knowledge.

That was exactly my point. Nothing can explain the beginning. But there may be no such thing as a beginning. We just think there should be because that's how our brains work.

Bottom line is, no one knows. And no one will ever know, IMO.

Belly35;1198082 wrote:Someday many of you unbeliever will rethink your opinion

This will never happen. Although I've stated before there are only two ways to ever believe in God. The first and most common way is childhood indoctrination. You build into a child's mind a certain belief system and make sure to notify them that are religions are wrong and infidels; as well as all atheists being terrorists and the devil's people. That is the advantage of that method. The disadvantage of that method is that when/if the person finds out that the entire thing was absolute bullshit, you create a militant atheist help bent on destroying everything and anything about religion.

The second method involves a mid life crises. When you are unable to resist the emotional swings of life its comforting to "know" that someone is up there and has a plan for you and will take care of you for eternity. This comfort comes with a cost though, or at least it should. The first is monetary. You waste your money not only on the church but other religious marketed themes because remember you are a good person and you want to go to heaven. The second and more important is you break any form of credibility and intellect. No one takes people seriously who actually believe that a flood occurred 5000 years ago and that there was a talking snake and that a man(he was a man, since its never been proven that he was anything but a simple man) turned water into wine. There are numerous biblical stories that are a freaking joke, and there are numerous religions that have similar stories.

Anyways, until enough evidence correlates highly with the belief in a god, can one person start trying to prove that "their" god is the correct god. As of 2012, zero evidence exists for any belief system. Zero. Embarrassing.

WebFire;1198214 wrote:That was exactly my point. Nothing can explain the beginning. But there may be no such thing as a beginning. We just think there should be because that's how our brains work.

Bottom line is, no one knows. And no one will ever know, IMO.

I disagree. I think we will know eventually. But you are correct, we do NOT know.

WebFire;1198214 wrote:That was exactly my point. Nothing can explain the beginning. But there may be no such thing as a beginning. We just think there should be because that's how our brains work.

Bottom line is, no one knows. And no one will ever know, IMO.

I agree. I cannot fathom any scenario that didn't have a beginning. The bolded part is really fucking with my head right now. Thanks for that.

Unsubscribe to this. I've seen I'll I need to now.

Sonofanump;1198225 wrote:Unsubscribe to this. I've seen I'll I need to now.

Ignorance is bliss. Thanks for your contribution. :rolleyes:

I tend to think people embrace religion and reconnect with God during moments of strife. After 9/11 church attendance spiked and our country had a religious fervor I haven't seen in years.

We haven't been truly tested as a generation of persons at this point. There has been no sacrifice. We have no great depression, we have no world war II, we have no manifest destiny. Without true desperation man gets haughty and sees himself as the pinnacle of power. I heard several graduation speeches mention the notion that this generation is waiting for its chance to do something great. Great moments come from difficult circumstances. From those difficult circumstances we typically see that our power is as great as previously thought.

justincredible;1198222 wrote:I agree. I cannot fathom any scenario that didn't have a beginning. The bolded part is really fucking with my head right now. Thanks for that.

It does fuck with your mind. Some things are just behind our comprehension level. Such as space and the galaxies. Where does that begin and end? Or does it?

swamisez;1198250 wrote:I tend to think people embrace religion and reconnect with God during moments of strife. After 9/11 church attendance spiked and our country had a religious fervor I haven't seen in years.

We haven't been truly tested as a generation of persons at this point. There has been no sacrifice. We have no great depression, we have no world war II, we have no manifest destiny. Without true desperation man gets haughty and sees himself as the pinnacle of power. I heard several graduation speeches mention the notion that this generation is waiting for its chance to do something great. Great moments come from difficult circumstances. From those difficult circumstances we typically see that our power is as great as previously thought.

I cannot disagree with anything you said. But it does help make the point that religion is merely a mind game.

WebFire;1198252 wrote:It does fuck with your mind. Some things are just behind our comprehension level. Such as space and the galaxies. Where does that begin and end? Or does it?

sleeper;1198219 wrote: Anyways, until enough evidence correlates highly with the belief in a god, can one person start trying to prove that "their" god is the correct god. As of 2012, zero evidence exists for any belief system. Zero. Embarrassing.

Including Atheism correct?

jmog;1198271 wrote:Including Atheism correct?

Actually. Atheism is a non belief. So, no.

Devils Advocate;1198272 wrote:Actually. Atheism is a non belief. So, no.

Technically Agnosticism is 'non-belief' or really 'not knowing' atheism is 'knowing' there is no deity. So, by 'knowing' or 'believing' there is no deity and not being able to prove that, that is by definition a 'faith'.

That is all in simplest terms obviously.

I am 28 and believe in god. I believe someone had to start everything in the beginning. I am also strongly opposed to organized religion for myself. Organized religion serves it's purpose for charity and often helps people recover from problems in their life, or even provides friendship to some. I don't need these things in my life at this point. This said I think the bible Koran or any other religious beliefs are based on really good non fiction stories.