fan_from_texas;1063919 wrote:Right, but there's a difference between winning a battle and winning a war, inasmuch as the latter requires you to have some sort of goal that you accomplish. We won every battle in Vietnam--do you think we won the war there by accomplishing our aims? We've won every "battle" in Iraq/Afghanistan, yet a decade later we're still paying untold billions. If that counts as winning, are we sure we want to win?

The problem isn't winning the conflict on the ground. The problem, as Powell pointed out (and was ignored at the time), is figuring out what to do next (remember, you break it, you own it?). If we go in and destroy the Iranian military and infrastructure, but refuse to rebuild or do anything else afterward, what do you think the odds are that a friendly, democratic government is installed that keeps national terrorists in check?

fan_from_texas;1063919 wrote:Right, but there's a difference between winning a battle and winning a war, inasmuch as the latter requires you to have some sort of goal that you accomplish. We won every battle in Vietnam--do you think we won the war there by accomplishing our aims? We've won every "battle" in Iraq/Afghanistan, yet a decade later we're still paying untold billions. If that counts as winning, are we sure we want to win?

The problem isn't winning the conflict on the ground. The problem, as Powell pointed out (and was ignored at the time), is figuring out what to do next (remember, you break it, you own it?). If we go in and destroy the Iranian military and infrastructure, but refuse to rebuild or do anything else afterward, what do you think the odds are that a friendly, democratic government is installed that keeps national terrorists in check?

sjmvsfscs08;1063903 wrote:Can I get some sources that show Romney said he "will go to war with Iran." Romney has never been a warmonger, he took a hardline stance to win over SC primaries voters. It failed miserably.

The only ignorance I see is the fact that you can't comprehend what I'm saying. I never said I supported the idea of waging war with Iran. I explicitly said the opposite. I also never said that we would occupy the country, or that it would even be smart.

There's nothing to be wrong about since I haven't taken a stance that is for the war. And how can I be wrong when I agree with you about blowback and the idiocy of trying to occupy Iran?

The facts are that the US military would wipe the floor with the Iranian army/navy/air force. No one has ever seen the full might of the US military on display, or even half of the might for that matter. We have been busy being bogged down in urban warfare against a largely invisible enemy who put civilians in harm's way and make us follow stricter rules of war. I am simply talking about what would happen in a war with Iran. IRAN WOULD NOT STAND A CHANCE AGAINST US ON A BATTLEFIELD. You're oblivious to the point of my post and it's laughable, your ignorance is legendary. The US hasn't lost a notable battle against a conventional military (i.e. uniformed combatants) in how many years? I honestly can't think of the last time a foreign military was dumb enough to stand up against the US and walk away from it still alive.

Iran couldn't invade our bases in Afghanistan/Middle East, and any marked military personnel/vehicles would be obliterated by our ridiculous technological advantage. I could give a **** if Iran has 3x the military as Iraq, that would be 3x the casualties for them, they are inferior across the board and the real generals know.

Iran could cause widespread panic with insurgents across the region and temporarily disrupt the world's oil supply (well, really China's since 85% of it goes there. That's about it.

I also wouldn't need anyone to give me a job, ever, and be completely safe financially. That's for the kind words though, leading off a rebuttal with an ad hominem attack normally looks like you know what you're talking about...

sjmvsfscs08;1063925 wrote:I have no disagreements with this.

I think Vietnam was ultimately lost because we gave the citizens of Vietnam the choice between a dictator or the fantasyland that is Communism. Just another example of why propping up puppet dictators is a bad, bad idea.

Iraq was a stupid move because the British back in the day combined three different people together (Kurds, Shiites, Sunnis). They don't mix. In democracies you need to mix amicably. It was stupid to invade them and attempt to rebuild them.

Trying to rebuilt Iran would be impossible, in my opinion. Simply impossible.

Is that all fair to say?

sleeper;1063933 wrote:#1. Pretty sad you support a candidate who lies to get votes. How can you trust anything else he says? He panders to whomever he is in front of, and he sure as shit is going to hoodwink you too.

sleeper;1063933 wrote:#2. 36,395: That is the number of US deaths/permanently wounded from the Iraq war. Is this what you call "whiping the floor"? I know a vet or two, one who will never be able to walk again, would you like to tell him that we wiped the floor with Iraq?

sleeper;1063933 wrote:#3. Welcome to 21st century warfare. This isn't the revolutionary war where the Iranians are just going to line up against us to fight. They will do the exact same guerrilla warfare tactics that Iraq used to fight us. The difference is, the Iranian army is vastly superior to anything Iraq ever has or ever will have on steroids x3.

sleeper;1063933 wrote:#4. I didn't ask for another ignorant rhetoric filled post from you. I asked, "How does it feel to be wrong?". How does it feel? Does your brain hurt, your teeth clenched, can you FEEL the stress of trying to wrap your mind around a faulty position?

fan_from_texas;1063951 wrote:Yes, I think that's all fair to say. The difficulty is figuring out the right steps to take to deal with Iran's posturing. I tend toward the side that says let Israel handle it, and do what we can to get out of the Middle East and focus on East Asia, which I suspect will be the hotbed going forward.

I Wear Pants;1063088 wrote:Of course he would try to use it to his advantage. Just like Republicans would, quit acting like they're ****ing different.

We go to war with Iran and I put any money I have that Obama doesn't win reelection. Maybe that's why the Pubs all seen so keen on wasting billions more and getting more soldiers killed. Anything to get rid of Obama right?

Just kidding there, I don't actually wear a foil hat so that's a bit of a stretch.

But it's unbelievable that people who claim to want to get us back on budget want to start yet another war. And hilarious that people think the GOP likes the military more. There is no reason that we haven't created for going to war with Iran. "But they have Nukes/other WMDs!!!!". How the **** did it work out last time we heard that?

"But they're going to close the strait!!!" - That one is pretty much directly our fault. By putting sanctions against payments to their central bank who processes all their oil money and encouraging as many nations to do so as possible we're ****ing up 50% of their GDP. What reason do they have then to not say "**** you all then" and close the strait? But of course we'll use it as an excuse to militarily keep the strait open and then when they launch a missile or something use it as an excuse to blow the **** out of them. Because this is America, we'll bomb the **** out of you if you inconvenience us.

isadore;1064896 wrote:it is always nice to get a defense for the actions of the criminal regime in Iran, another of those not bad guys that kill Americans.

FatHobbit;1064899 wrote:Lol, when did someone from Iran kill Americans?

I Wear Pants;1063661 wrote:The last time Iran had a populist leader we put him out of power for a dictator.

isadore;1064921 wrote:these not bad guys are doing their best to kill Americans
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/02/iran-funnels-new-weapons-to-iraq-and-afghanistan/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/5477283/Iranian-weapons-getting-through-to-Taliban.html



http://www.registan.net/index.php/2011/03/10/iranian-weapons-in-afghanistanagain/

FatHobbit;1064953 wrote:Lol, when did someone from Iran kill Americans?

isadore;1064988 wrote:when Americans die in rocket attacks, thats when. of course you find their deaths of American service people hilarious. Angwin SEAL Virginia Beach, VA 8-06-2011 US Robinson, Heath M. Special Warfare Operator Chief Petty Officer 34 Hostile - hostile fire - helicopter crash (CH-47 Chinook) Wardak Sayd Abad district U. S. Navy Michigan Petoskey SEAL Virginia Beach, VA 8-06-2011 US Pittman, Jesse Special Warfare Operator Petty Officer 1st Class 0 Hostile - hostile fire - helicopter crash (CH-47 Chinook) Wardak Sayd Abad district U. S. Navy California Ukiah SEAL West Coast-based Naval Special Warfare 8-06-2011 US Day, Jared Williams Information Systems Technician Petty Officer 1st C 28 Hostile - hostile fire - helicopter crash (CH-47 Chinook) Wardak Sayd Abad district U. S. Navy Utah Taylorsville SEAL Virginia Beach, VA 8-06-2011 US Vickers, Kraig M. Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician Senior Chie 36 Hostile - hostile fire - helicopter crash (CH-47 Chinook) Wardak Sayd Abad district U. S. Navy Hawaii Kokomo SEAL Not reported yet 8-06-2011 US Hamburger, Patrick D. Sergeant 30 Hostile - hostile fire - helicopter crash (CH-47 Chinook)

FatHobbit;1065012 wrote:OMG, RONALD REAGON killed american soldiers!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_combatants_in_the_Iran–Iraq_War

and Isadore thinks it's funny. I can't believe he's such a terrorist. :rolleyes:

isadore;1065059 wrote:I am not the one laughing at Ron Reagan putting American troops in Beruit helpless to kill terrorists or his trading with terrorist Iran, nor as compared to you laughing at the deaths of those Americans killed by Iranian supplied weapons.

FatHobbit;1065095 wrote:Barack Obama gave them a drone and I bet you laughed then.

sjmvsfscs08;1063903 wrote:The facts are that the US military would wipe the floor with the Iranian army/navy/air force. No one has ever seen the full might of the US military on display, or even half of the might for that matter.

isadore;1064935 wrote:Repeatedly people claim North Korea would enter a war on the side of Iran. Based on what. Their deep long term friendship between the atheistic Stalinist regime and the Theocrats of Iran. How about the North Korea history of militarily intervening outside their little penninsula, none.
And then of course any actions they would prepare to take would be rejected by their only real benefactor and protector China, who definitely does not want a world war.

dwccrew wrote:Your heart bleeds for North Korea and their not so bad leader. The fact that you defend their not so bad leader only proves that you wish the US to go to war with Iran and N. Korea so you can watch more American soldiers die. I don't know why you want American soldiers to die. I prefer to have our soldiers in the US guarding our borders and keeping us safe HERE. You prefer to send them off to die.

dwccrew;1065817 wrote:Japan saw the full might of the US military

isadore;1065849 wrote:<DIR>This is all part of your and others efforts on here to protect the Theocratic Islamic Iran by falsely claiming they have an alliance with nuclear weaponed North Korea. Anything to save this regime that continues to supply weaponry to kill Americans.
</DIR>

dwccrew;1068643 wrote:Why do you like watching American soldiers die?