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Video of US Marines urinating on corpses of dead Taliban

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G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Jan 13, 2012 5:49 PM
They deserve to be reprimanded, as they should for violating orders or code. Is it even on the level of abusing a (living) prisoner? No, but the conduct/representation introduced with taping it warrants much more than a slap on the wrist.

Had it been kept private, whatever reprimand their CO deems appropriate is cool with me. But when you make it a PR incident as they have done taping it, all bets are off and shitty as it might be their careers are justifiably at risk. Whatever the reason for stupidity, it doesn't always and completely save you from the consequences - in any job, much less the military.

Not to take the thread this direction, but are we really going to cry about and defend some idiots who taped themselves pissing on a dead body while far better soldiers lost their career for no other reason than their sexual orientation?
Jan 13, 2012 5:49pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Jan 13, 2012 6:32 PM
Hey, who knows what the homo soldiers did to dead bodies!! :eek:
Jan 13, 2012 6:32pm
T

Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Jan 13, 2012 7:35 PM
1.My view is first of all . They should not have video taped this stuff.

2.I dont want to hear some politician talking about how deplorable this crap was . We are talking about 20 something year old kids under grave danger and stress and they are out there killing these Taliban soldiers .

3. I dont want to see these Marines being made an example of , I dont think what they did in a war zone was so "deplorable" The act of video taping them peeing on the dead Talibans did more harm to the politics of the war and to our troops in the future . That is what really bothers me .

They effed up and I hope they realize that they may cause some American to be beheaded on TV or tortured by those Islamic Animals . and they are nothing but animals . It just bugs me that all these people on TV hang these Marines out to dry . Who knows what they have been through . Maybe seeing a buddy get blown up and killed .. Its EFFING WAR and War is deplorable anyway you look at it . Lets not act like there is some kind of moral code in all of this . Isnt that what the British thought back in the revolutionary war? To march into battle in a hail of bullets ? Not shoot the officers etc. Hypocracy and War have been age old . Its effing war people.
I do believe those Marines need article 15 and maybe lose a stripe even . They dont need thrown in the brig or to be made out to be some kind of pariah's.
This is a time when I dont want the media to over talk this issue . This is something that should not have been put out because of national security reasons.
Jan 13, 2012 7:35pm
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majorspark

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5,122 posts
Jan 13, 2012 8:54 PM
Thinthickbigred I could not agree more. Excellent post.
Jan 13, 2012 8:54pm
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2kool4skool

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1,804 posts
Jan 14, 2012 12:00 AM
If "stress" excuses our soldiers' behavior, does it also excuse the behavior of the enemy?
Jan 14, 2012 12:00am
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majorspark

Senior Member

5,122 posts
Jan 14, 2012 2:15 AM
2kool4skool;1051778 wrote:If "stress" excuses our soldiers' behavior, does it also excuse the behavior of the enemy?
Depends what the behavior is. Only idiots are excusing this case. These guys should and will be punished. Do they deserve hard time in Levenworth? No.

You will find that old adversaries on the battlefield years later meet up. They actually seek each other out. A way of healing old wounds perhaps. There is a level of respect for the difficult position they both found themselves in as young men. There is forgiveness between old warriors.

The environment of death is a difficult place for anyone to find themselves in. Technology has brought the realities of war home. Much more so today. Who is to say an American revolutionary did not whip it out and piss on a British redcoat? Scalps were cut as trophies in prior wars of the time, far worse IMO. If we could witness all the surrendering soldiers shot point blank in the heat of battle our skin would crawl. Video is new to war. The uncontrolled kind very new. The average boot having the ability to record live action is new only to todays wars. I will bet you that every war man has known this kind of shit took place and far worse. Just no technoligical devices were available to record it.
Jan 14, 2012 2:15am
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Jan 14, 2012 2:26 AM
I don't think these soldiers deserve prison but they certainly shouldn't be allowed to be soldiers anymore. They disrespect everyone that does things the right way in the military (read: almost all of those guys) by pulling shit like this.

majorspark, does that mean we should be okay with it? (I'm asking not putting words in your mouth, I want to know if that's what you meant before I comment).

War is certainly difficult and I know nothing about being in a combat situation. But I know about being a decent human being and these men did not display the qualities of that.

Thinthick's opinion seems to be that this is an acceptable action as long as it isn't filmed. I think that's poppycock. We have to be better than them, perfect even. If we aren't we absolutely cannot be doing the type of operations we are doing because it hinges on us being morally superior.
Jan 14, 2012 2:26am
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Jan 14, 2012 2:33 AM
bases_loaded;1051100 wrote:Would much rather have seen a bunch of videos of them pissing on or stacking naked bodies of our soldiers than them beheading and dragging bodies behind cars in the street.

Something happened here, this incident didn't happen unprovoked. These guys have obviously seen or been apart of something so fucked up this was a way to quell the pain.

My uncle is a Marine Corps pilot, his last tour he had to spend 6 months on the ground at Camp Leatherneck as part of a billet. Every Marine that dies passes through there, every day he witnessed a new ceremony. He isn't the same guy he was before he left and this is after 19 years prior service.

So I say if that piss helps them cope then so be it, they aren't there killing by choice
We are there by choice though.
Jan 14, 2012 2:33am
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majorspark

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5,122 posts
Jan 14, 2012 3:39 AM
I Wear Pants;1051863 wrote:majorspark, does that mean we should be okay with it? (I'm asking not putting words in your mouth, I want to know if that's what you meant before I comment).
Of course not. That is why I said they should be punished.
I Wear Pants;1051863 wrote:Thinthick's opinion seems to be that this is an acceptable action as long as it isn't filmed. I think that's poppycock. We have to be better than them, perfect even. If we aren't we absolutely cannot be doing the type of operations we are doing because it hinges on us being morally superior.
He is not saying it is acceptable. Just that video taping that shit will cause harm to the war effort. Its made to order propoganda material for the enemy. That is number one dumb.
Jan 14, 2012 3:39am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Jan 14, 2012 8:22 AM
I Wear Pants;1051863 wrote:I don't think these soldiers deserve prison but they certainly shouldn't be allowed to be soldiers anymore. They disrespect everyone that does things the right way in the military (read: almost all of those guys) by pulling **** like this.

majorspark, does that mean we should be okay with it? (I'm asking not putting words in your mouth, I want to know if that's what you meant before I comment).

War is certainly difficult and I know nothing about being in a combat situation. But I know about being a decent human being and these men did not display the qualities of that.

Thinthick's opinion seems to be that this is an acceptable action as long as it isn't filmed. I think that's poppycock. We have to be better than them, perfect even. If we aren't we absolutely cannot be doing the type of operations we are doing because it hinges on us being morally superior.
hypocrisy from someone who sees these Taliban scum as people who use whose use of vicious tactics as justified and these terrrorists as not being such bad guys, who sees our fighting troops as unexceptional at best and doing actions that anyone could do and our mission in Afghanistan as American imperialism.
Jan 14, 2012 8:22am
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Rotinaj

Senior Member

7,699 posts
Jan 14, 2012 8:27 AM
I Wear Pants;1051863 wrote:I don't think these soldiers deserve prison but they certainly shouldn't be allowed to be soldiers anymore. They disrespect everyone that does things the right way in the military (read: almost all of those guys) by pulling shit like this.We have to be better than them, perfect even. If we aren't we absolutely cannot be doing the type of operations we are doing because it hinges on us being morally superior.
You truly think they should be discharged over this? I mean what they did was wrong but thats going a little overboard IMO. You having the opinion in bold(better than them yes, no1 is perfect) isnt even rational. How can you expect everyone that wears the uniform to be perfect? Im not saying what they did was right in my eyes but i damn sure am not going to condemn a soldier for pissing on the body of a dead taliban member. Especially when i dont even know the backround of the soldiers in question. Maybe they have lost many good friends in this war. Would you understand(not condone, just understand) what they did if that was the case?
Jan 14, 2012 8:27am
V

vball10set

paying it forward

24,795 posts
Jan 14, 2012 9:16 AM
as far as the Taliban? fuck 'em and feed 'em cheese--piss on the whole fuckin' bunch
Jan 14, 2012 9:16am
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Jan 14, 2012 9:30 AM
Rotinaj;1051900 wrote:You truly think they should be discharged over this? I mean what they did was wrong but thats going a little overboard IMO. You having the opinion in bold(better than them yes, no1 is perfect) isnt even rational. How can you expect everyone that wears the uniform to be perfect? Im not saying what they did was right in my eyes but i damn sure am not going to condemn a soldier for pissing on the body of a dead taliban member. Especially when i dont even know the backround of the soldiers in question. Maybe they have lost many good friends in this war. Would you understand(not condone, just understand) what they did if that was the case?
I can understand why a soldier may be very upset and have a lot of stress, they go through some unbelievable shit and see things no one ever should. I completely understand the rationale behind some of the soldiers feeling really ill towards these people.

But at the same time if you're going to rationalize what these guys did you have to maybe rationalize the dead people. What if they were in their late teens and a US bomb accidentally blew apart their neighborhood and killed a lot of their friends and family? Are they not entitled to the same disdain that we are?

I'm all for killing the actual terrorists but we've been there so long that the people we're currently fighting likely had nothing at all to do with 9/11 and wouldn't otherwise be fighting us if we weren't there.
Jan 14, 2012 9:30am
T

Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Jan 14, 2012 11:49 AM
2kool4skool;1051778 wrote:If "stress" excuses our soldiers' behavior, does it also excuse the behavior of the enemy?
Has our enemy at any point critized one of there own ? they fly planes into buildings,they brainwash young poeople innto strapping bombs to there bodies to kill many inocents even of there own faith ,they behead tied up prisoners with dull knives before cameras,They treat woman worse than dogs, etc etc etc . It is embarrasing as an American to me that our leaders are throwing these Marines under the bus . I dont like what they did but Im not going to listen to Karzi the presedent of that corrupt government try to tell us how to punish those men #### that and I dont need Hillary or any other government official talking too much rhetoric. They made a mistake and they should be punished at the company level . They caused a problem with security issues becuse they video taped this stupid crap . That is what Im more concerned with . All im saying is because this was video taped and our enemies are going to use this as fuel and a recruiting tool that is where the major offense was .. Lets not kid ourselves and try and be politically correct here and make it a moral issue . These guys are out there killing each other and getting booby trapped every day . Id be willing to bet that those Marines are feeling pretty bad right now ,but I dont want to see them get put in jail or thrown out of the military . They should lose a stripe and pay grade and be on company duty for awhile . I also dont think they should be paraded on TV for our propoganda purposes. I dont give a damn about what Karzi or any other thinks . I say we get these mens back and thats it . I think any of us who knows guys that served in combat knows this is minor as to what really goes on . Lets move on
Jan 14, 2012 11:49am
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ManO'War

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1,420 posts
Jan 14, 2012 12:03 PM
Here! Here!

Couldn't agree more.
Jan 14, 2012 12:03pm
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2kool4skool

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1,804 posts
Jan 14, 2012 12:11 PM
Thinthickbigred;1051976 wrote:they behead tied up prisoners with dull knives before cameras,
Perhaps a U.S. bomb accidentally hit and killed their friends and family? Maybe they were under a lot of stress from watching their fellow soldiers get killed? War makes people do inhuman things right? Who are we to judge?

Back to reality, these guys are soldiers. A job that tax payers are paying them to do. A big part of this war is not just "winning" by killing whoever we have deemed our enemies to be, but also winning over the citizens of the nation.

Because these soldiers decided to act like idiots and piss on dead bodies, and then even more idiotically, allow it to be recorded and put on youtube, they have done a large amount of harm to that mission. As someone that in part pays their salary, I don't want to employ people who are setting back our efforts because they don't have two brain cells to rub together.

They don't need jail time, but dishonorable discharge and loss of any benefits would do the trick and send a message to any other moron wanting to disgrace out military like this.
Jan 14, 2012 12:11pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Jan 14, 2012 12:19 PM
I Wear Pants;1051909 wrote:I can understand why a soldier may be very upset and have a lot of stress, they go through some unbelievable **** and see things no one ever should. I completely understand the rationale behind some of the soldiers feeling really ill towards these people.

But at the same time if you're going to rationalize what these guys did you have to maybe rationalize the dead people. What if they were in their late teens and a US bomb accidentally blew apart their neighborhood and killed a lot of their friends and family? Are they not entitled to the same disdain that we are?

I'm all for killing the actual terrorists but we've been there so long that the people we're currently fighting likely had nothing at all to do with 9/11 and wouldn't otherwise be fighting us if we weren't there.
Part of the continuing effort to rational and excuse the killers of Americans.
Here is who American troops are fighting against NOW, people who purposely shot up a school bus killing 4 children and a teacher then brag about it. Hardcore terrorists, still operating and definitely deserving of death and whatever else.
"[h=1]Gunmen kill five on Pakistan school bus[/h]


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/us-pakistan-shooting-children-idUSTRE78C1IS20110913
Jan 14, 2012 12:19pm
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ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Jan 14, 2012 12:19 PM
You should go right to the recruiting office and sign up!
Jan 14, 2012 12:19pm
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DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
Jan 14, 2012 12:22 PM
2kool4skool;1051998 wrote:Perhaps a U.S. bomb accidentally hit and killed their friends and family? Maybe they were under a lot of stress from watching their fellow soldiers get killed? War makes people do inhuman things right? Who are we to judge?

Back to reality, these guys are soldiers. A job that tax payers are paying them to do. A big part of this war is not just "winning" by killing whoever we have deemed our enemies to be, but also winning over the citizens of the nation.

Because these soldiers decided to act like idiots and piss on dead bodies, and then even more idiotically, allow it to be recorded and put on youtube, they have done a large amount of harm to that mission. As someone that in part pays their salary, I don't want to employ people who are setting back our efforts because they don't have two brain cells to rub together.

They don't need jail time, but dishonorable discharge and loss of any benefits would do the trick and send a message to any other moron wanting to disgrace out military like this.
booom
Jan 14, 2012 12:22pm
T

Thinthickbigred

Senior Member

4,148 posts
Jan 14, 2012 12:32 PM
2kool4skool;1051998 wrote:Perhaps a U.S. bomb accidentally hit and killed their friends and family? Maybe they were under a lot of stress from watching their fellow soldiers get killed? War makes people do inhuman things right? Who are we to judge?

Back to reality, these guys are soldiers. A job that tax payers are paying them to do. A big part of this war is not just "winning" by killing whoever we have deemed our enemies to be, but also winning over the citizens of the nation.

Because these soldiers decided to act like idiots and piss on dead bodies, and then even more idiotically, allow it to be recorded and put on youtube, they have done a large amount of harm to that mission. As someone that in part pays their salary, I don't want to employ people who are setting back our efforts because they don't have two brain cells to rub together.

They don't need jail time, but dishonorable discharge and loss of any benefits would do the trick and send a message to any other moron wanting to disgrace out military like this.
I dont think a dishonorable discharge applies at all here . I know they messed up and they do have a job to do . i dont want to see 20 something year old who wants to stay in the Core be kicked out . We dont have the files on these men in front of us . I say if there is a long history of bad behavior then possibly a harsher punishment may apply . My concern is that we Americans dont try and make some kind of example out of these young men just to appease Karzi and whomever else who took offense to this stupid act . Im just saying lets scale it back . Lets not talk too much bull especially those Harvard ,and Yale people who would in there heyday rather, march and protest the war in Vietnam rather than serve our country.
.
Let the punishment fit the crime loss of pay grade and some company punishment . Nothing more Oh and did I say #### Karzi I dont give a DAMN!!! what that piece of #### thinks .
Jan 14, 2012 12:32pm
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Dr Winston O'Boogie

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1,799 posts
Jan 14, 2012 1:45 PM
I don't think the actions of Taliban fighters have anything to do with it. US military is and should be held to a higher standard. As has been said on here, these dumbasses hurt all of their fellow service members who do it right. Dumbasses do shit like this. There are good people in the service for sure. But this culture we're in now where you are unpatriotic for not coonsidering everyone in uniform a "hero" is challenged by the actions of morons.
Jan 14, 2012 1:45pm
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dwccrew

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7,817 posts
Jan 14, 2012 1:49 PM
isadore;1049993 wrote: Gosh those not so bad guys who supplied the protection al queda so they could kill 3000 Americans. They slaughter minorities and oppress women. They are the scum of the earth.
After Mussolini was executed, his body was dumped in piazza in Milan. People kicked and spat on the corpse, women urinated on him. Then he was hung up by his heels. Its too bad some Afghan women did not get a shot at them.
I noticed you said people and not US soldiers.
Jan 14, 2012 1:49pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Jan 14, 2012 2:33 PM
dwccrew;1052087 wrote:I noticed you said people and not US soldiers.
Those women had suffered for over 20 years under Il Duce's dictatorship. Those marines are people who have served their nation in the most difficult of circumstances against an enemy of unlimited viciousness and evil. The deaths of Mussolini and those terrorists have made the world a better place.
Jan 14, 2012 2:33pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Jan 14, 2012 4:58 PM
isadore;1052003 wrote:Part of the continuing effort to rational and excuse the killers of Americans.
Here is who American troops are fighting against NOW, people who purposely shot up a school bus killing 4 children and a teacher then brag about it. Hardcore terrorists, still operating and definitely deserving of death and whatever else.
"Gunmen kill five on Pakistan school bus




http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/us-pakistan-shooting-children-idUSTRE78C1IS20110913
Why are we responsible for law enforcement in Pakistan?
Jan 14, 2012 4:58pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Jan 14, 2012 5:09 PM
I Wear Pants;1052243 wrote:Why are we responsible for law enforcement in Pakistan?
The incident gives a good idea of the type of people you continously make excuses for. They slaughter children and brag about it. They are scum.
Jan 14, 2012 5:09pm