Footwedge;1210050 wrote:Don't see it. He couldn't catch McCoy's splooge balls...how's he gonna handle the heat?

The kid that will start and surprise is the undrafted dude that played with Weedon. Chemistry. And the speed guy from Miami is gonna make some huge plays.

Didn't he lead the rookies in receptions?

hoops23;1210053 wrote:
I played WR in HS and will tell you as well as anybody who played(s) the position that catching rocket passes are easier than ducks/lobs.

Agree 100% with this, Much easier to catch bullets than wounded ducks

jesus christ you guys are acting like McCoy throws the ball at the level of a freshman QB in high school.

hoops23;1210053 wrote:61 receptions and over 700 yards. His stats are comparable to top tier rookie WR's who had the benefit of an overall better QB.

I played WR in HS and will tell you as well as anybody who played(s) the position that catching rocket passes are easier than ducks/lobs.

This is correct on both parts. It's a receivers job to catch the ball but ask any receiver what's easier to catch, wounded duck or tight spiral. I think you'll get the tight spiral answer in a majority of the cases.

Little was touted as having the "best hands" coming out of that 2011 NFL Draft by many. He didn't lose those skills overnight.

Pick6;1210139 wrote:jesus christ you guys are acting like McCoy throws the ball at the level of a freshman QB in high school.

Not at a HS level but you're going to see an significant improvement in the number of drops just due to the fact that they will be seeing a legit NFL ball thrown their way. This subject was brought up a few months ago and I was "reaching" and "hating" for making the comment.

http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x1967199974/Around-the-NFL-Weeden-takes-the-cake-in-QB-age-comparison

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/06/theres_no_reason_to_rush_colt.html

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2012/06/terry_plutos_talkin_about_the_53.html

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/22/team-by-team-cap-space-as-of-june-22/

BR1986FB;1210159 wrote:Not at a HS level but you're going to see an significant improvement in the number of drops just due to the fact that they will be seeing a legit NFL ball thrown their way. This subject was brought up a few months ago and I was "reaching" and "hating" for making the comment.

lol, we haven't even seen Weeden in the NFL, and you're already claiming he has a legit NFL throw?

How many times do I have to say it on here: just because you did it in college, doesn't mean you can do it in the NFL!

BR1986FB;1210159 wrote:Not at a HS level but you're going to see an significant improvement in the number of drops just due to the fact that they will be seeing a legit NFL ball thrown their way. This subject was brought up a few months ago and I was "reaching" and "hating" for making the comment.

You and Hoops are definitely reaching. Dropped passes are...drum roll...dropped passes. Last year the man pulled a Braylon Edwards all year. For as many balls thrown his way, 700 yards is nothing to brag about. At all. Something like 45 yards per game. I can't stand people who play like Braylon Edwards.

I agree that pro receivers should be able to handle tight spirals. The good ones do. My point is that if you can't handle touch passes, then you can't handle tight spirals either. I played my share of receiver too. I played my share of basketball as well...and bullet passes are not easier than touch passes to catch. To say that it is, is nonsense.

With all that said, yes Little has the other tools needed to be a good receiver. However, last year, he was was responsible for more 3 and outs than any receiver in pro football. That needs to change.

If that does change, I'll be the first one congratulate him.

Footwedge;1210268 wrote:You and Hoops are definitely reaching. Dropped passes are...drum roll...dropped passes. Last year the man pulled a Braylon Edwards all year. For as many balls thrown his way, 700 yards is nothing to brag about. At all. Something like 45 yards per game. I can't stand people who play like Braylon Edwards.

I agree that pro receivers should be able to handle tight spirals. The good ones do. My point is that if you can't handle touch passes, then you can't handle tight spirals either. I played my share of receiver too. I played my share of basketball as well...and bullet passes are not easier than touch passes to catch. To say that it is, is nonsense.

With all that said, yes Little has the other tools needed to be a good receiver. However, last year, he was was responsible for more 3 and outs than any receiver in pro football. That needs to change.

If that does change, I'll be the first one congratulate him.

You gotta remember He didn't play for a whole year due to NCAA infractions. I'm not concerned with the drops. And a tight spiral hard throw can definitely be easier to catch then a touch pass

SportsAndLady;1210231 wrote:lol, we haven't even seen Weeden in the NFL, and you're already claiming he has a legit NFL throw?

How many times do I have to say it on here: just because you did it in college, doesn't mean you can do it in the NFL!

Yeah, because I'll believe the loads of coaches, scouts & analysts saying that Weeden has a noodle arm. :rolleyes:

Crimson streak;1210311 wrote:You gotta remember He didn't play for a whole year due to NCAA infractions.

I don't see how that makes a difference. But I'll concede the point to you, Hoops and BR.

I'm not concerned with the drops.

I am...big time.

And a tight spiral hard throw can definitely be easier to catch then a touch pass

Nonsense. Pure physics dictates otherwise. Why do all running back coaches/quarteback coaches prefer a wobble or and end over end when the q'back pitches to a running back?

Like I said above, receivers with good hands will catch everything. Last year, Little was pathetic...as in aweful. that concerns me.

A pet peeve of mine has to do with dropped passes. I remember Northcutt's drop against Pittspuke in the playoffs like it was yesterday. Beating Pittspuke in the playoffs...in their back yard...would have been landmark. To me just as big as the 2 playoff losses to Elway in the 80's.

Northcutt dropped a sure game winning first down. Right in his hands. A high school kid catches that 24 out of 25 times (even Hoops]...and the Browns would have been in kneel down formation as 70,000 Steeler fans would have headed for the exits wiping away the tears with the urine colored terrible towels...or as they say in Pittspuke land... tolls...with a short a.

TO was always near the top of the league for drops and I would have taken his talents in a heart beat. It was his off the field antics that made him hated.

Footwedge;1210386 wrote: I am...big time. Nonsense. Pure physics dictates otherwise. Why do all running back coaches/quarteback coaches prefer a wobble or and end over end when the q'back pitches to a running back?

No...THIS is nonsense. Find me a WR who prefers catching passes that are wobbling, wounded ducks over a tight spiral and I'll show you a) a pussy of a receiver who's afraid they are going to get their hands hurt by the velocity of the throw (of a tight spiral) and b) most likely a pretty shitty receiver. NO receiver likes to have to wait for a flapping duck to arrive versus being hit, in stride, by a well thrown ball. A guy who would prefer that "wobble" is also more likely a "body catcher" than someone who snags the ball with his hands.

BR1986FB;1210452 wrote:No...THIS is nonsense. Find me a WR who prefers catching passes that are wobbling, wounded ducks over a tight spiral and I'll show you a) a pussy of a receiver who's afraid they are going to get their hands hurt by the velocity of the throw (of a tight spiral) and b) most likely a pretty shitty receiver. NO receiver likes to have to wait for a flapping duck to arrive versus being hit, in stride, by a well thrown ball. A guy who would prefer that "wobble" is also more likely a "body catcher" than someone who snags the ball with his hands.

Bingo.

The only time you want a lob is 5 yards or less or when you're running a deep route and the QB is able to loft it over the defender and hit you in stride...

Curls, slants, and anything else over the middle, hit me with a laser. Nobody likes to go over the middle to catch a lob knowing you're about to get lit up waiting for the ball.

hoops23;1210456 wrote:Bingo.

The only time you want a lob is 5 yards or less or when you're running a deep route and the QB is able to loft it over the defender and hit you in stride...

Curls, slants, and anything else over the middle, hit me with a laser. Nobody likes to go over the middle to catch a lob knowing you're about to get lit up waiting for the ball.

Exactly plus a wobbly ball is more volatile so there's more chance someone will try to catch it with their body to ensure they control it. Not the case with a spiral unless, again, they are are shitty receiver/body catcher.

Not to mention your comment about waiting for the ball on a short, over the middle pass where they can get lit up. Ask MoMass & Cribbs how that felt against Pittsburgh.

BR1986FB;1210452 wrote:No...THIS is nonsense. Find me a WR who prefers catching passes that are wobbling, wounded ducks over a tight spiral and I'll show you a) a **** of a receiver who's afraid they are going to get their hands hurt by the velocity of the throw (of a tight spiral) and b) most likely a pretty ****ty receiver. NO receiver likes to have to wait for a flapping duck to arrive versus being hit, in stride, by a well thrown ball. A guy who would prefer that "wobble" is also more likely a "body catcher" than someone who snags the ball with his hands.

I played receiver in college and I can tell you catching it with your body leads to drops. If your qb those a wobbly ball your receivers are going to have drops. I know when I was hit on stride I wanted a tight hard thrown ball not some wobbly puss ball

Footwedge;1210386 wrote:I don't see how that makes a difference. But I'll concede the point to you, Hoops and BR.
I am...big time. Nonsense. Pure physics dictates otherwise. Why do all running back coaches/quarteback coaches prefer a wobble or and end over end when the q'back pitches to a running back?

Like I said above, receivers with good hands will catch everything. Last year, Little was pathetic...as in aweful. that concerns me.

A pet peeve of mine has to do with dropped passes. I remember Northcutt's drop against Pittspuke in the playoffs like it was yesterday. Beating Pittspuke in the playoffs...in their back yard...would have been landmark. To me just as big as the 2 playoff losses to Elway in the 80's.

Northcutt dropped a sure game winning first down. Right in his hands. A high school kid catches that 24 out of 25 times (even Hoops]...and the Browns would have been in kneel down formation as 70,000 Steeler fans would have headed for the exits wiping away the tears with the urine colored terrible towels...or as they say in Pittspuke land... tolls...with a short a.

This dude was obviously never on the receiving end of thrown passes. You're talking about pure physics? Would you rather hit a fastball or a knuckleball, because wobbling passes tend to knuckle quite a bit. Any skilled wide receiver would tell you that they want a crisp, tight-spiralled, hard thrown ball. This shouldn't even be a conversation.

BR1986FB;1210345 wrote:Yeah, because I'll believe the loads of coaches, scouts & analysts saying that Weeden has a noodle arm. :rolleyes:

Let me clarify...I don't think Weeden will have a "noodle arm"

Just moreso, you can't say he has a strong arm...quite yet.

I think that is fair..

SportsAndLady;1210497 wrote:Let me clarify...I don't think Weeden will have a "noodle arm"

Just moreso, you can't say he has a strong arm...quite yet.

I think that is fair..

I've been on your side with the QB argument the whole time, but I have to disagree here. You either have a strong arm or you don't. It's pretty easy to determine that after one practice.

like_that;1210502 wrote:I've been on your side with the QB argument the whole time, but I have to disagree here. You either have a strong arm or you don't. It's pretty easy to determine that after one practice.

He definitely has a strong arm. J Russell had a strong arm.

Just saying there's a difference between having a strong NCAA arm, and a strong NFL arm.

SportsAndLady;1210504 wrote:He definitely has a strong arm. J Russell had a strong arm.

Just saying there's a difference between having a strong NCAA arm, and a strong NFL arm.

I know what you are saying. The difference is how utilizing that strength with the other skill sets needed to be a good QB. Weeden has the strong arm, but only time will tell if he can use it properly in the NFL. As you have pointed out with Russell, there have been plenty of QBs in the NFL with strong arms.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1210488 wrote:This dude was obviously never on the receiving end of thrown passes. You're talking about pure physics? Would you rather hit a fastball or a knuckleball, because wobbling passes tend to knuckle quite a bit. Any skilled wide receiver would tell you that they want a crisp, tight-spiralled, hard thrown ball. This shouldn't even be a conversation.

Comparing a knuckleball to a fastball? Are you for real? We are talking about catching a football here. Not hitting a frieking baseball. My physics analysis is dead on. And for the record, I caught thousands of passes as a wide receiver. Thousands. Our generation played street football just about every day during the season. Your generation is really good at X-Box...I know.

Footwedge;1210616 wrote:Comparing a knuckleball to a fastball? Are you for real? We are talking about catching a football here. Not hitting a frieking baseball. My physics analysis is dead on. And for the record, I caught thousands of passes as a wide receiver. Thousands. Our generation played street football just about every day during the season. Your generation is really good at X-Box...I know.

LMAO

BR1986FB;1210452 wrote:No...THIS is nonsense. Find me a WR who prefers catching passes that are wobbling, wounded ducks over a tight spiral and I'll show you a) a pussy of a receiver who's afraid they are going to get their hands hurt by the velocity of the throw (of a tight spiral) and b) most likely a pretty shitty receiver. NO receiver likes to have to wait for a flapping duck to arrive versus being hit, in stride, by a well thrown ball. A guy who would prefer that "wobble" is also more likely a "body catcher" than someone who snags the ball with his hands.

So...all of McCoy's passes were wobblers? Wounded ducks? Really? No shit receivers want the ball thrown in there. And yes, they want to catch it with their hands. Duh.

If you are suggesting that Weedon will throw more perfect passes...as in right on the money than McCoy...then OK. In real life...not even Peyton or Brady do that on a consistant basis.

Look...the dude dropped a lot of passes. I hope he improves. If it does improve, it will have nothing to do with the zip..or lack thereof of McCoy. You act as if all of his drops were due to wounded ducks. Well, they weren't.

The first time Weedon hits him in the hands...and then the ball deflects into the waiting arms of a dee back, I'm going to remember this thread and do a bumperoo.

Every WR drops passes. Little will still have drops. The key is to improve.