BR1986FB;1155964 wrote:I'm just cracking up at ALL of the QQing on this thread. Before this draft Heckert was the "savior' (except for maybe Mulva who has been critical of this regime from the start) and had done "great' even though the 2010 draft, save Joe Haden, looks like it sucked and now he's a "bum" and everyone seems to think they can draft better than him. Quite comical. I'm enjoying it, tbh. Everyone who thought Heckert was awesome now seems to have turned on him.

Ive never said I was a fan of how he's drafted. Quite frankly, I think he's been terrible.

Trich was the correct choice. Ideally they should have got number two long ago. The league it pass happy, but it usually takes a very good qb to make it happen. If you don't have one, you better have a stud rb. The browns should have that now.

like_that;1155966 wrote:Yes, after the Weeden pick, I became less sure of his decision making. That's how you make your judgements on a GM. How else are we supposed to make a judgement? Base it on how fat he is become since he came to Cleveland lol?

I said it before, and I will say it again. If Weeden, and these other picks (i actually talked myself into schwartz) pan out, I will happily eat crow.

Told you before, gotta think like a GM. This regime has got to be in a "win now" mode because this is their last shot. Don't have the "luxury" of tanking the season with McCoy so they will be in a position to draft that puss Barkley. Might be YOUR mindset because we have "all day...no need to have a sense of urgency, I'm young!" but they don't have that luxury.

BR1986FB;1155973 wrote:Told you before, gotta think like a GM. This regime has got to be in a "win now" mode because this is their last shot. Don't have the "luxury" of tanking the season with McCoy so they will be in a position to draft that puss Barkley. Might be YOUR mindset because we have "all day...no need to have a sense of urgency, I'm young!" but they don't have that luxury.

And when you start to think like that, you start to make knee jerk picks. It's been showing this draft, but anyway I repeat, I will eat my crow if it works out.


So, who would you guys take with their first pick today? I really like getting an OLB at this point.

Yes, after the Weeden pick, I became less sure of his decision making.

From what has been reported the Weeden pick was an owner driven pick.

Apparently Randy is finally taking som interest in the team, and after the embarrassment of missing RGIII he has been leaning on Mike to fix the position and earn his paycheck.

Randy knows little about football, but even he realized that heading into year 3 of a rebuild you just can't head into the season with Colt McCoy as your QB. We would likely be in jeopardy of a blackout at some point over the season when we are scoring 10-14 a game again, and he just couldn't have that.

Hopefully an OLB and WR with the next 2 picks but who knows. With how it's went so far it's hard 2 be very excited about rounds 4-7.

I think either Chris Givens or Marvin Jones would be the wr they take but I'm not guessing anymore when they're taking one...but if there's a LB who could come in and start they could take him because we will need one bad because who are our OLBs right now? Gocong and Fujita(who will probably be suspended from his days in NO)? Would anyone take Marvin McNutt or BJ Cunningham in the later rounds? They are wrs who did pretty well against OSU who I think could be decent.

IggyPride00;1155978 wrote:From what has been reported the Weeden pick was an owner driven pick.

Apparently Randy is finally taking som interest in the team, and after the embarrassment of missing RGIII he has been leaning on Mike to fix the position and earn his paycheck.

Randy knows little about football, but even he realized that heading into year 3 of a rebuild you just can't head into the season with Colt McCoy as your QB. We would likely be in jeopardy of a blackout at some point over the season when we are scoring 10-14 a game again, and he just couldn't have that.

When your owner is getting involved like that too, it's bad news for the franchise.

From what has been reported the Weeden pick was an owner driven pick.

Randy knows little about football,

you said it all.
by the time Weeden gets his feet wet and becomes a productive NFL QB, he'll be over 30 and his physical skills will be on the decline.

Osweiler was not drafted until 57, and he was graded out about the same as Weeden. 6 years younger too.
Kirk Cousins is still on the board.
...just sayin'

HitsRus;1155983 wrote:you said it all.

At the same time though, what does it say about the credibility of this regime that an owner who knows nothing about football was smart enough to realize that you can't be heading into year 3 of a rebuild without having done anything to address the most important position in professional sports in a serious manner.

The 5 year plan is not to be 8-8 at the end of it. That is absurd. No team in league history has waited until year 4 to draft a QB (because they were all fired if they were bad enough in year 4 to still be needing one).

mucalum49;1155965 wrote:Anyone know if there is a reason Joe Adams is still around? Injuries? He seemed like a solid WR for Arkansas. Wouldn't mind seeing the Browns draft him.

I think his stock was 3-4. Probably mostly because of his size/ strength. He's a slot receiver and probably doesn't have the "upside" of the bigger guys who might turn into a #1. Also doesn't have the softest hands in the draft.

I agree with you though. I mentioned that I'd love to target him in round 4. I think he'd be a good #3 (instant upgrade over Norwood or Massaquoi) and a dynamic punt returner.

BR1986FB;1155949 wrote:Best available players left...

http://rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/40433/60/best-players-left-on-day-3

If the Steelers or Bengals get Polk I'm going to snap.

Detroit was 0-16 in 2008, and the worst team in the history of the world.

By year 3 they had their franchise QB, and were in the playoffs. By year 4 they are looking to be serious contenders to challenge in the NFC.

Do some of you realize that you are advocating that at the end of year 3 we are a top 3 team?

How is that a rebuild? What the Lions did is a rebuild, what we were on the path to doing was an aimless wandering trip with no destination.

I am sure Randy asked Mike why a team that was 0-16 3 years ago can be in a position to win now when we still looked hopeless before the draft. That explains the Weeden pick, as they were just out of time and out of excuses.

IggyPride00;1155992 wrote:Detroit was 0-16 in 2008, and the worst team in the history of the world.

By year 3 they had their franchise QB, and were in the playoffs. By year 4 they are looking to be serious contenders to challenge in the NFC.

Do some of you realize that you are advocating that at the end of year 3 we are a top 3 team?

How is that a rebuild? What the Lions did is a rebuild, what we were on the path to doing was an aimless wandering trip with no destination.

I am sure Randy asked Mike why a team that was 0-16 3 years ago can be in a position to win now when we still looked hopeless before the draft. That explains the Weeden pick, as they were just out of time and out of excuses.

The Lions actually drafted a legitimate QB prospect. Not a 28 year old reach. This thread is 316 pages deep, and this logic has been explained to you in at least 100 of these pages, yet you still can't comprehend it.

I'll admit I'm confused by the Hughes pick, but at the same time Taylor and Rubin can't play every down. Let's see what happens the rest of the way

We need a WR/OLBer combo in the 4th.

lhslep134;1155995 wrote:I'll admit I'm confused by the Hughes pick, but at the same time Taylor and Rubin can't play every down. Let's see what happens the rest of the way

Same, I don't recall the Bearcats having a dominant run defense last season. Puzzling to see both DTs gone.

Browns fans are the worst. Heckert has been praised by everyone for his drafting and decision making. You would think that the people on here would believe in what he is doing instead of making knee jerk "holy shit we are fucked!!" reactions to this draft. Going into the draft we needed an OT, QB, WR, OLB, RB, and some would argue we needed depth at key positions.

Our first pick, we aggressively trade up to get the best RB and non QB available in Richardson. To people saying RB's don't help, do you watch football? It's still a run first league for a lot of teams. the Steelers won their first Big Ben super bowl relying on their running game because he sucked ass in those playoffs. A RB helps tremendously especially when it comes to a rookie QB. Richardson can do everything back there and he can do it for 3 downs. Do you really want Hardesty and Brandon Jackson running the show? gtfooh if you think that. It was a huge pick up. I remember the consensus being "we need to get offensive playmakers!!!! our defense is on the field to long because our offense sucks!!!!" we do that, and you guys still bitch. It's unreal. Richardson is the BEST NON-QB in this draft, and we got him.

While I was one of the main people hating on Weeden, and wanting to give McCoy a shot next year with weapons around him, the front office(whom I trust) made the decision to get Weeden. I hated it when it first happened, but after thinking about it for a while, it makes sense. He has a huge arm, he's mature, he is a winner(beat Luck, RG3, and every other top QB last year) and he's going to be the starter. His age gives him a sense of calmness that McCoy didn't have. Once again, we draft offense and people bitch.

3rd pick, we get an OT to shore up the line and people complain that it was someone they didn't know. "oh no we didn't get decastro, let's eat heckert's heart!!" Heckert did the same thing with Taylor, and he did the same thing with Shear. Most people were like "omg why these guys??" well they both turned out to be great, and this line needed a RT. I'm not watching a line where Oniel cousins is the starter. Another great pick for the offense. The first 3 picks go towards building the offense. Bengals did a similar thing last year by taking a WR and a QB. Most people said they would suck and laughed at the dalton pick, and it turned out great. Solidfying the backfield, the line, and putting a QB with a big arm in there is huge.

Jamison Hensley thinks that Hughes was a decent pick that most people don't get. He's a huge, clogger of the front line and will help give rubin/taylor some rest while being able to stop the run up the middle. It may not be the pick everyone wanted, but at that point there was no WR that would bring the value. Getting Hughes gives some reassurance to the DL in case of injuries. It's not a great pick, but it's an important one.

I truly think this draft is one of the better ones since we've been back. People hate on it, that's fine. But I think logically, and if the front office thinks weeden is our QB, then I believe it too. There is a difference between a 3rd round project QB and a QB taken at 22nd overall and from everything he's shown, Weeden will be successful in cleveland.

Commander of Awesome;1155997 wrote:Same, I don't recall the Bearcats having a dominant run defense last season. Puzzling to see both DTs gone.

Think about it this way too. IF we were going to take Hughes at 67, at least now we took him at 87 and added an early 4th which adds a pretty decent prospect, so it's really not the end of the world.

HitsRus;1155983 wrote:you said it all.
by the time Weeden gets his feet wet and becomes a productive NFL QB, he'll be over 30 and his physical skills will be on the decline.

Osweiler was not drafted until 57, and he was graded out about the same as Weeden. 6 years younger too.
Kirk Cousins is still on the board.
...just sayin'

Hits...please don't compare Osweiler with Weedon. One had incredible numbers in college and the other had horrible numbers.

I get the age argument. But Osweiler...in a conference that played little pass defense, was pathetic.

Does no one else realize that this regime is essentially rebuilding the Holmgren-era Seahawks here? This is a system that got to a Super Bowl (that's the goal right?) and probably would've won had it not been for a few guys in striped shirts. Think about those teams. Built around a great RB in Alexander (which we now presumably have in TRich), a strong defense (which we have), a good but not necessarily elite QB who can make all the throws (which we hope Weeden is), a good offensive line (which is shaping up), and decent but not superstar receivers (which is the last piece of the puzzle here).

Can't understand the chicken little mentality. Is Brandon Weeden a better QB than Colt McCoy? I don't know. Is he better suited to get hit and able to make throws that Colt simply can't? Absolutely. Yes he's old but as has been mentioned before he hasn't been hit as much as other quarterbacks his age. Skills declining? What the hell are you smoking? He's not RGIII, he's never going to be a mobile quarterback. Quarterbacks don't lose their ability to throw with age. If this guy can give the Browns THREE good years it would be better than anyone they've had since '99.

Heckert has drafted well in his first two drafts, let's at least let these guys get on the field a bit before we judge too harshly.

lhslep134;1155999 wrote:Think about it this way too. IF we were going to take Hughes at 67, at least now we took him at 87 and added an early 4th which adds a pretty decent prospect, so it's really not the end of the world.

And you refuse to take down your false quote attributed to me. In real life, you would be punished. Yet, you hide behind the internet with blatant slander. What a pussy.

DeyDurkie5;1155998 wrote:Browns fans are the worst. Heckert has been praised by everyone for his drafting and decision making. You would think that the people on here would believe in what he is doing instead of making knee jerk "holy shit we are fucked!!" reactions to this draft. Going into the draft we needed an OT, QB, WR, OLB, RB, and some would argue we needed depth at key positions.

Our first pick, we aggressively trade up to get the best RB and non QB available in Richardson. To people saying RB's don't help, do you watch football? It's still a run first league for a lot of teams. the Steelers won their first Big Ben super bowl relying on their running game because he sucked ass in those playoffs. A RB helps tremendously especially when it comes to a rookie QB. Richardson can do everything back there and he can do it for 3 downs. Do you really want Hardesty and Brandon Jackson running the show? gtfooh if you think that. It was a huge pick up. I remember the consensus being "we need to get offensive playmakers!!!! our defense is on the field to long because our offense sucks!!!!" we do that, and you guys still bitch. It's unreal. Richardson is the BEST NON-QB in this draft, and we got him.

While I was one of the main people hating on Weeden, and wanting to give McCoy a shot next year with weapons around him, the front office(whom I trust) made the decision to get Weeden. I hated it when it first happened, but after thinking about it for a while, it makes sense. He has a huge arm, he's mature, he is a winner(beat Luck, RG3, and every other top QB last year) and he's going to be the starter. His age gives him a sense of calmness that McCoy didn't have. Once again, we draft offense and people bitch.

3rd pick, we get an OT to shore up the line and people complain that it was someone they didn't know. "oh no we didn't get decastro, let's eat heckert's heart!!" Heckert did the same thing with Taylor, and he did the same thing with Shear. Most people were like "omg why these guys??" well they both turned out to be great, and this line needed a RT. I'm not watching a line where Oniel cousins is the starter. Another great pick for the offense. The first 3 picks go towards building the offense. Bengals did a similar thing last year by taking a WR and a QB. Most people said they would suck and laughed at the dalton pick, and it turned out great. Solidfying the backfield, the line, and putting a QB with a big arm in there is huge.

Jamison Hensley thinks that Hughes was a decent pick that most people don't get. He's a huge, clogger of the front line and will help give rubin/taylor some rest while being able to stop the run up the middle. It may not be the pick everyone wanted, but at that point there was no WR that would bring the value. Getting Hughes gives some reassurance to the DL in case of injuries. It's not a great pick, but it's an important one.

I truly think this draft is one of the better ones since we've been back. People hate on it, that's fine. But I think logically, and if the front office thinks weeden is our QB, then I believe it too. There is a difference between a 3rd round project QB and a QB taken at 22nd overall and from everything he's shown, Weeden will be successful in cleveland.

While I can appreciate the point that you are trying to make...Ben stunk in that Super Bowl, but not that whole postseason. He played pretty well and had good stats against Cincy, Indy and Denver.

Footwedge;1156002 wrote:And you refuse to take down your false quote attributed to me. In real life, you would be punished. Yet, you hide behind the internet with blatant slander. What a ****.

I posted your direct quote. You said Pomeranz was top 6th percentile, then cited a list that had him 6th out of 25th. That's incorrect math. My sig is correct.

Footwedge;1144951 wrote:
For everybody else...Drew Pomeranz....top 6 percentile as a pitching prospect. White not listed...no longer viewed as a prospect...because he has already pitched...

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasybaseball/story/16531723/highlighting-top-pitcher-prospects-for-2012

.

Like I said on the other thread, I can't help the fact you're too stupid to recognize your own stupidity. But please, keep bringing up how dumb you are, I laugh everytime.

Y-Town Steelhound;1156001 wrote:Does no one else realize that this regime is essentially rebuilding the Holmgren-era Seahawks here? This is a system that got to a Super Bowl (that's the goal right?) and probably would've won had it not been for a few guys in striped shirts. Think about those teams. Built around a great RB in Alexander (which we now presumably have in TRich), a strong defense (which we have), a good but not necessarily elite QB who can make all the throws (which we hope Weeden is), a good offensive line (which is shaping up), and decent but not superstar receivers (which is the last piece of the puzzle here).

Can't understand the chicken little mentality. Is Brandon Weeden a better QB than Colt McCoy? I don't know. Is he better suited to get hit and able to make throws that Colt simply can't? Absolutely. Yes he's old but as has been mentioned before he hasn't been hit as much as other quarterbacks his age. Skills declining? What the hell are you smoking? He's not RGIII, he's never going to be a mobile quarterback. Quarterbacks don't lose their ability to throw with age. If this guy can give the Browns THREE good years it would be better than anyone they've had since '99.

Heckert has drafted well in his first two drafts, let's at least let these guys get on the field a bit before we judge too harshly.

I was following you...until you stated our receivers were "fairly decent...not superstar" line. Our receivers are garbage...gotta call it the way it is. Stats do not lie. The Browns led the league in dropped passes.

Bad receivers lead to dropped passes. Dropped passes lead to punts. Punts lead to points for the other team. If we don't improve this part of the equation, we will sell our hair to a wig shop.