IggyPride00;1339237 wrote: if beating bad teams at the end of the year brings Shurmur back like it did Mangini after he had a similar fools gold run to end the year.

Might happen if RG3 (injury) and Manning (clinched bye) sit out for those games.

Sonofanump;1339328 wrote:Might happen if RG3 (injury) and Manning (clinched bye) sit out for those games.

I posted that scenario a few weeks ago, except I figured the Steelers would have clinched by then as well.

I didn't see the RGIII injury and figured we'd lose that game, but Denver and Pittsburgh totally seemed like games that would be against teams with nothing to play for.

If RGIII is out next week, Shurmur will have had the luckiest run of bad/injured teams I have ever seen. He missed the rapist when we played the Steelers, might miss RGIII, and then at the very least Manning likely doesn't play the whole game if they are locked into a playoff position.

Even if they keep winning Banner better think long and hard before he just brings Shurmur back. If he does, and we don't take the next step next year into the playoffs, the fan base will explode if we get another "2nd first year" scenario where it appears Banner wasted a year of the new regime buying into late season fools gold as was the case with Holmgren/Mangini.

They never really recovered from that as people had no interest in what then becomes a 2nd wasted year as the new coach inevitably has to get his feet under him, and the regime's 3rd year becomes the year they try and contend. It just has disaster written all over it.

They should have fired Shurmur at the bye and been done with it to avoid this type of scenario which we are back to again where you back yourself in the corner and get stuck with a guy because of a late season run against teams that are bad/injury depleted.

I actually think next year contending for a wild card is not out of the question at all, but no matter how they finished I just don't think Shurmur is the kind of coach that can take this team from 7-9/8/8 to that next level of 10-11 wins. I would gladly eat crow next year if he is here and I am wrong, but I just think it is wasting a year of everyone's time as well as the new regime's credibility.

How awesome would it be week 17 vs the steelers winner goes to the playoffs.

Crimson streak;1339389 wrote:How awesome would it be week 17 vs the steelers winner goes to the playoffs.

Stop.

like_that;1339395 wrote:Stop.

Lol it really does suck derpmur blew a couple of those games early in the year. Otherwise we would be sitting nicely

Same with Haden.

Commander of Awesome;1339409 wrote:Same with Haden.

Yeah I'm still pissed at him for that. I just hope next year we can take that leap

Wisenhunt looks like he is going to be out in Arizona after today's fiasco.

When he had good QB play there he had that team winning and got to a Super Bowl.

Wonder if Haslam would be interested in going that route with a guy like him if the job opens. They have a Steelers connection I am sure as Wisenhunt was a long time assistant there.

Reminds me of John Fox quite frankly in that he just seems like he needs a change of scenery after things went bad in Arizona.

IggyPride00;1339431 wrote:Wisenhunt looks like he is going to be out in Arizona after today's fiasco.

When he had good QB play there he had that team winning and got to a Super Bowl.

Wonder if Haslam would be interested in going that route with a guy like him if the job opens. They have a Steelers connection I am sure as Wisenhunt was a long time assistant there.

Reminds me of John Fox quite frankly in that he just seems like he needs a change of scenery after things went bad in Arizona.

No thanks.

IggyPride00;1339431 wrote:Wisenhunt looks like he is going to be out in Arizona after today's fiasco.

When he had good QB play there he had that team winning and got to a Super Bowl.

Wonder if Haslam would be interested in going that route with a guy like him if the job opens. They have a Steelers connection I am sure as Wisenhunt was a long time assistant there.

Reminds me of John Fox quite frankly in that he just seems like he needs a change of scenery after things went bad in Arizona.

Shurmur is showing improvement winning 3 in a row and still an outside shot at the playoffs. I mean he even has a victory over the Steelers. I think Haslem considers keeping him. Cant a coach develop just as well as players, Iggy?

I dont want a guy who can only win with one of the best QBs in the league.

Cant a coach develop just as well as players, Iggy?

I just don't think he is improving much.

Our offense statistically is still terrible, and we are still awful in the red zone. He still has poor clock management, none of that has changed.

We are winning games right now, but it is by beating bad teams towards the end of the year (which we should be doing).

The defense is carrying this team right now, and that has nothing to do with Shurmur. That is Jauron's baby.

We were 29th in total offense last season, and 27th this season (and he was 29th and 27th in the 2 seasons before as OC for the Rams).

This is what Pat Shurmur is.

I think that Heckert has earned his spot, and Jauron probably deserves to stay as well (minus the Hadenless games that side of the ball has been really good).

To be a playoff team the offense needs to be top 15 next year, and I see nothing that tells me in his 5th year calling plays it is going to magically come alive for Shumur and he makes the huge leap. He is a bottom 15% guy, and that is not going to lead us to a Super Bowl ever.

Belichek took a while to grow into the job, but at least he had a track record of accomplishment (one of the best D-Coordinators in the NFL) that lead you to believe he was capable of putting it together at some point even when he was failing.

Shurmur has never been in charge of a good offense, ever. I just don't think his ceiling is high enough too justify moving forward with him if the goal is to ever actually win a Super Bowl.

We need a head coach that has at least some sort of track record of high level success from when he was in charge of something as a coordinator, or a head coach some where else.

That is my opinion, everyone is entitled to theirs, I just think it is unrealistic to think a guy who can't run a successful offense is going to all the sudden have the switch go off next year when we are primed to take the step under competent leadership.

Pick6;1339443 wrote:I mean he even has a victory over the Steelers.

Two words:

Charlie Batch.

Sonofanump;1339464 wrote:Two words:

Charlie Batch.

It's not like the Browns were getting their asses raped when rapistberger was playing against them. Charlie Batch still beat the Ravens. I am not going to give that built in excuse for the Steelers.

Just to clarify though, i am in no way defending little patty boy. I think he should still be gone. This roster has potential, but I just don't think patty boy can get it done with them. Let's be real here. He played this team out of the playoffs in the first 5 weeks. If we had a legit coach the Browns would have won AT LEAST 2 of those 5 games, and those 2 games right now would have been the difference. These guys are young, they want to win and they are learning to win, so I expect to see them coming out and playing hard every game. I just can't trust little patty boy when a meaningful game is on the line. He showed us how he handles that pressure within the first few weeks. Hell he showed us how he handled it with the Cowboys and Colts games. Those games were semi meaningful.

I was pretty harsh on Heckert's draft class this year, but this is turning out to be a pretty good draft class. Seven of those picks have seen siginifcant playing time, and they all have contributed imo.

Only 7? Seems like more than 7.

like_that;1339802 wrote:I was pretty harsh on Heckert's draft class this year, but this is turning out to be a pretty good draft class. Seven of those picks have seen siginifcant playing time, and they all have contributed imo.

Yep, wasn't thrilled with the Weeden pick, because of where they got him and wasn't a fan of drafting the director of the home alone movies. He just didn't pass the eye test...for a defensive tackle

wes_mantooth;1339841 wrote:Yep, wasn't thrilled with the Weeden pick, because of where they got him and wasn't a fan of drafting the director of the home alone movies. He just didn't pass the eye test.

John Huges only wrote Home Alone. The man that discovered America* (allegedly) directed it.

like_that;1339802 wrote:I was pretty harsh on Heckert's draft class this year, but this is turning out to be a pretty good draft class. Seven of those picks have seen siginifcant playing time, and they all have contributed imo.

The Josh Gordon pick might ultimately save his job if possible.

I was happy about it at the time, but he has far surpassed what I thought possible for him as a rookie.

I figured this would be a throw away year for him to learn having not played for a year.

All the sudden he looks like a future #1, with Little looking increasingly comfortable as a second option.

With a top of the line Tight end this team would be lethal potentially in the future offensively as we now have good receivers, a really good O-line and a strong running game.

With the right offensive mind I see no reason this team couldn't turn into an offensive juggernaut potentially in the very near future.

That is why I think it is so important to remove Shurmur. We have the personnel that a good coach could step in and win with immediately, and a defense that is showing itself to be one of the better ones in the league when healthy.

It might sound crazy, but Cleveland is starting to resemble the 49ers job before Harbaugh got there in that we have a roster that the right coach could probably win big with soon.

I keep forgetting about Gordon in that class, because of the supplemental. I meant to say 8 rookies have had significant playing time. Gordon has looked great. I will eat my crow for bitching about that pick.

I loved the Gordon pick.

As for saving his job, I think it helps heckert that Greg Little has really shown some signs of life too.

Heckert should keep his job, Shurmur not so much. You can't convince me that this team isn't a playoff team with a legit coach.

The more we win, the better value the Gordon pick is basically we got him for pick #40-something now.

Where do you think Gordon would have gone in the draft had he stayed in college and come out this year?

Commander of Awesome;1339856 wrote:Where do you think Gordon would have gone in the draft had he stayed in college and come out this year?

Def a first round pick. He would have finished ahead of Wright and Randle for sure.

like_that;1339851 wrote:Heckert should keep his job, Shurmur not so much. You can't convince me that this team isn't a playoff team with a legit coach.

That's why I was saying in some ways it feels a bit like that 49ers job where you saw alot of talent that was largely underachieving.

We are winning a few games late in the year, but the Browns won't be sneaking up on anyone next year.

I can't believe that with a gun to their head Banner/Haslam feel that Shurmur is capable of getting 10-11 wins when we the league will be ready and prepared for us (instead of looking at it being the lowly Browns coming to town).

Playing with nothing to lose when the season was essentially gone this year is a much different animal than starting the year expecting to win 10-11 games and make the playoffs.

Reminds me of 2008 when we were a young team coming off 10 wins and everyone figured we would take the next step, and then Romeo proved to be incapable of the next step when everyone was ready for us from day 1.

Start 0-2 and all the sudden the death watch kicks in because the late season success from the prior year looks like a mirage and everyone panics as the season spirals out of control. We have had that happen twice in the past 5 years and I am over it.