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2012 Cleveland Browns thread: AKA Pat Shurmur Memorial thread

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ 2012 Cleveland Browns thread: AKA Pat Shurmur Memorial thread
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Apr 1, 2012 1:01 PM
DeyDurkie5;1133810 wrote:That's what I'm saying. You put Dalton on the browns, and BR and alll these guys will be hating him cause he will look ****ty. It's unfair to compare the two at this moment, because hte offenses are light years different.
I think Dalton is still an unknown. He had a good rookie season, but he is still unproven. One of the differences between Dalton and McCoy is that Dalton has NFL arm strength. Even if McCoy improves, it is highly unlikely that he will develop the needed arm strength to be elite.
Apr 1, 2012 1:01pm
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
Apr 1, 2012 1:06 PM
Skyhook79;1133821 wrote:Dalton was a rookie and so was his "Elite" receiver. Maybe AJ became Elite in part because of Dalton. The off cord was brand new and the other 2 receivers were not starters last year. They completely revamped their offense and a rookie QB came in and took them to the Playoffs. Face it McCoy stinks and is by far the worst QB in the Division and the Browns are going nowhere with him.
maybe they revamped their offense with a reciever and he came in and lead them to victories!!

/skyhookd

smh. I know you missed the point on that one skyhook, so I'm not going to bother. you are such a bitch, it's not even funny. I'm not saying Mccoy is Drew Brees, I'm saying it's not fair to base him on that year last year because of the awfulness of the offense, the playmakers, the OC, etc. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING YOU JACKASS
Apr 1, 2012 1:06pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 1, 2012 1:08 PM
Al Bundy;1133831 wrote:I think Dalton is still an unknown. He had a good rookie season, but he is still unproven. One of the differences between Dalton and McCoy is that Dalton has NFL arm strength. Even if McCoy improves, it is highly unlikely that he will develop the needed arm strength to be elite.
Agreed
Apr 1, 2012 1:08pm
Dr. KnOiTaLL's avatar

Dr. KnOiTaLL

Trust me, I'm a doctor!

2,682 posts
Apr 1, 2012 1:43 PM
McCoy will NEVER be an elite quarterback. Ever. Never. However, he HAS NOT had ANY serviceable weapons around him other than Hillis, and Hillis clearly bailed on the team last season. I'm not claiming that I think McCoy is our franchise quarterback, but I really would like to see what he could do, if he could be serviceable, with some talented weapons around him. I agree that it doesn't make sense to take Weeden at 37. While I like what he has to offer, I would rather fill a void where we have NOTHING, such as RB, WR, or RT. If Weeden falls to the 3rd, then I may consider the pick, but our first three picks need to be guys that are on the field from day 1. Just my opinion...
Apr 1, 2012 1:43pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 1, 2012 2:15 PM
We had one of the worst offensive lines in the entire league last year in terms of QB pressures and hits, had no running back, 1 receiver who showed promise but couldn't hold on to the ball, and yet it's all Colt McCoy's fault?

Some of you guys are stupid. I try and hold back the condescending comments, but literally the content of some of the posts on here is just mind-boggling dumb.



BR, how the f*ck do you go from "backing" McCoy saying he needs to be surrounded with weapons and given a chance, then give up on him after last season in which he had zero weapons and a bad O-line? That makes ZERO sense.
Apr 1, 2012 2:15pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 1, 2012 2:20 PM
Dr. KnOiTaLL;1133878 wrote:McCoy will NEVER be an elite quarterback. Ever. Never. However, he HAS NOT had ANY serviceable weapons around him other than Hillis, and Hillis clearly bailed on the team last season. I'm not claiming that I think McCoy is our franchise quarterback, but I really would like to see what he could do, if he could be serviceable, with some talented weapons around him. I agree that it doesn't make sense to take Weeden at 37. While I like what he has to offer, I would rather fill a void where we have NOTHING, such as RB, WR, or RT. If Weeden falls to the 3rd, then I may consider the pick, but our first three picks need to be guys that are on the field from day 1. Just my opinion...
That's exactly how I feel, nice post
Apr 1, 2012 2:20pm
Y-Town Steelhound's avatar

Y-Town Steelhound

Underrated

1,388 posts
Apr 1, 2012 2:20 PM
I agree that Colt isn't a franchise quarterback that wins Super Bowls and playing in the AFC North does not help his abilities (weak arm in bad weather). However I do believe that in this offense with a decent line and decent weapons around him that he can do ok.

Let's face it, the Browns are not finding a franchise QB in this draft. Luck and RGIII are the only ones and taking a guy like Tannehill or even Weeden wouldn't really help things much. Grab a receiver, RB, and RT and then take a flyer on some QB in the 5th or 6th (might get lucky, it's happened before). Don't take a QB just to take a QB, we saw how that worked out with Brady Quinn.
Apr 1, 2012 2:20pm
Dr. KnOiTaLL's avatar

Dr. KnOiTaLL

Trust me, I'm a doctor!

2,682 posts
Apr 1, 2012 2:30 PM
I say build up your offense by grabbing 2WRs, RB and RT in the first three rounds, and then do whatever it takes to get Barkley next year. Even if the Browns miss on Barkley but have a top 4 pick, I think the high level talent is MUCH stronger at the QB position next year than it is this year. I know it's hard to wait because it feels like we're always waiting, but maybe if we do things the right way FOR ONCE and stick to the plan, just maybe something good will result from it.
Apr 1, 2012 2:30pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Apr 1, 2012 2:31 PM
Al Bundy;1133831 wrote:I think Dalton is still an unknown. He had a good rookie season, but he is still unproven. One of the differences between Dalton and McCoy is that Dalton has NFL arm strength. Even if McCoy improves, it is highly unlikely that he will develop the needed arm strength to be elite.
I guess we don't remember Joe "candy arm" Montana....not to mention Frantic Fran Tarkenton....who many said threw like a girl. And YA Tittle. Most of what makes a great quarterback is between the ears....not necessarily attached to a shoulder socket.

As for Dalton....his claim to fame last year was heaving jump balls to AJ Green. Put Green on the Browns last year and Dalton and McCoy's reputation and stats would have flip flopped.
Apr 1, 2012 2:31pm
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Apr 1, 2012 2:40 PM
Footwedge;1133906 wrote:I guess we don't remember Joe "candy arm" Montana....not to mention Frantic Fran Tarkenton....who many said threw like a girl. And YA Tittle. Most of what makes a great quarterback is between the ears....not necessarily attached to a shoulder socket.

As for Dalton....his claim to fame last year was heaving jump balls to AJ Green. Put Green on the Browns last year and Dalton and McCoy's reputation and stats would have flip flopped.
Those guys all had much better arm strength than McCoy.
Apr 1, 2012 2:40pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Apr 1, 2012 3:19 PM
Al Bundy;1133913 wrote:Those guys all had much better arm strength than McCoy.
Don't think so.
Apr 1, 2012 3:19pm
B

buckeyes_woowee

Senior Member

512 posts
Apr 1, 2012 3:32 PM
I love how people always blame the offensive line but cry about the thought of drafting one early. I think we do need to address the right side of the line but a bad QB makes the line look worse. If McCoy could read a defense and get rid of the ball the line would of looked fine.
Apr 1, 2012 3:32pm
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Apr 1, 2012 3:34 PM
Footwedge;1133939 wrote:Don't think so.
It must be April Fools Day if we are comparing Colt McCoy to Joe Montana.

Montana's bread and butter was the intermediate passing game, but it worked because he did have the arm to stretch the defense. McCoy doensn't have the ability to stretch a defense. Look how close the safties from ever defense play against the Browns because they know that they Browns don't have a QB that can throw the ball down field.
Apr 1, 2012 3:34pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 1, 2012 3:36 PM
lhslep134;1133894 wrote: BR, how the f*ck do you go from "backing" McCoy saying he needs to be surrounded with weapons and given a chance, then give up on him after last season in which he had zero weapons and a bad O-line? That makes ZERO sense.
Because unlike many, I have no emotional tie to him. Prior to the 2011 season I thought he might be worth building around but after seeing him leave SO many plays on the field, panic unnecessarily in many cases only to check down, repeatedly missing throws/poor accuracy (behind the receiver/not hitting him is stride in the "window"), neutering the offense with his limited arm strength (8 in the box), etc I knew he wasn't what I thought he could be. His "accuracy" was supposed to be his "selling point" (and I'm not talking about his completion %, I'm talking about where he places his throws) and even THAT doesn't exist.

There's NO question his receivers dropped balls and his O-Line wasn't the best (early in the year...McCoy had NO excuse for "poor O-Line" later in the season) and it wasn't "ALL on McCoy" but if you think this guy is going to take this team to a Super Bowl you're a FUCKING DELUSIONAL FOOL.

I've no issue with riding him out this year because they are going to end up with a shitty record and be in a position to FINALLY get their franchise guy. There's NO QB worth taking a flier on in the 1st round but I'd have no issue with Weeden at 37. Build up the rest of the roster with athletes, SUFFER with McCoy another year and get the QB in 2013. Unfortunately for Holmgren, if he's still around, and Heckert, they may not HAVE a "next year" and may take a QB early in a "panic move" this year knowing their asses may be on the line.
Apr 1, 2012 3:36pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
Apr 1, 2012 3:38 PM
DeyDurkie5;1133067 wrote:LOL yeah, a rookie coming in from the weakest pass defense in the "top" leagues is goin to start. Get out of here. use that pick on a starter for either the offense or defense.
Was this post sarcastic?

I don't want Weeden either, but you know Colt McCoy played in the same conference and started 8 games as a rookie, right?
Apr 1, 2012 3:38pm
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
Apr 1, 2012 3:39 PM
Mulva;1133956 wrote:Was this post sarcastic?

I don't want Weeden either, but you know Colt McCoy played in the same conference and started 8 games as a rookie, right?
McCoy has NFL experience under his belt, Weeden doesn't.
Apr 1, 2012 3:39pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 1, 2012 3:44 PM
DeyDurkie5;1133959 wrote:McCoy has NFL experience under his belt, Weeden doesn't.
Too bad for most of it he has performed terribly. In case you didn't know everyone who comes out of College into the Pro's doesn't have NFL experience.
Apr 1, 2012 3:44pm
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
Apr 1, 2012 3:49 PM
Skyhook79;1133962 wrote:Too bad for most of it he has performed terribly. In case you didn't know everyone who comes out of College into the Pro's doesn't have NFL experience.
you are truly a dumbass skyhook. Definitely done responding to you.
Apr 1, 2012 3:49pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 1, 2012 4:26 PM
BR1986FB;1133953 wrote:Because unlike many, I have no emotional tie to him.
So that's your justification for being a hypocrite? Cool, good to know.
Apr 1, 2012 4:26pm
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Apr 1, 2012 4:32 PM
lhslep134;1133980 wrote:So that's your justification for being a hypocrite? Cool, good to know.
changing an evaluation after actually seeing a person play makes one a hypocrite?
Apr 1, 2012 4:32pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

Senior Member

5,739 posts
Apr 1, 2012 4:41 PM
Al Bundy;1133984 wrote:changing an evaluation after actually seeing a person play makes one a hypocrite?
/ihslep134'd
Apr 1, 2012 4:41pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Apr 1, 2012 4:42 PM
Al Bundy;1133984 wrote:changing an evaluation after actually seeing a person play makes one a hypocrite?
Your question is wrong for multiple reasons.

1. BR had already seen McCoy play
2. His hypocrisy is not based on McCoy's evaluation, but rather the situation.

He said "If the Browns put game breaking receivers, a strong O-Line and a competent running game around McCoy and THEN he fails, that's when you look elsewhere. "

And now, he's saying we need to look elsewhere despite us not surrounding McCoy with game breaking receivers, a strong O line, and competent running game, things we can do in the upcoming draft.


It is a definitive example of hypocrisy. I'm sorry that it flew over your head, and not surprised that it flew well above skyhook's limited thinking capacity.
Apr 1, 2012 4:42pm
Dr. KnOiTaLL's avatar

Dr. KnOiTaLL

Trust me, I'm a doctor!

2,682 posts
Apr 1, 2012 4:55 PM
Can't we all just get along!? :p
Apr 1, 2012 4:55pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
Apr 1, 2012 4:56 PM
lhslep134;1133989 wrote:Your question is wrong for multiple reasons.

1. BR had already seen McCoy play
2. His hypocrisy is not based on McCoy's evaluation, but rather the situation.

He said "If the Browns put game breaking receivers, a strong O-Line and a competent running game around McCoy and THEN he fails, that's when you look elsewhere. "

And now, he's saying we need to look elsewhere despite us not surrounding McCoy with game breaking receivers, a strong O line, and competent running game, things we can do in the upcoming draft.


It is a definitive example of hypocrisy. I'm sorry that it flew over your head, and not surprised that it flew well above skyhook's limited thinking capacity.
Good post.
Apr 1, 2012 4:56pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Apr 1, 2012 5:16 PM
lhslep134;1133989 wrote:Your question is wrong for multiple reasons.

1. BR had already seen McCoy play
2. His hypocrisy is not based on McCoy's evaluation, but rather the situation.

He said "If the Browns put game breaking receivers, a strong O-Line and a competent running game around McCoy and THEN he fails, that's when you look elsewhere. "

And now, he's saying we need to look elsewhere despite us not surrounding McCoy with game breaking receivers, a strong O line, and competent running game, things we can do in the upcoming draft.


It is a definitive example of hypocrisy. I'm sorry that it flew over your head, and not surprised that it flew well above skyhook's limited thinking capacity.
Not exactly. My post #5151 said it all. Regardless of having weapons around him, or not, after seeing him in 2011 and all of his shortcomings, changed my opinion of him. It happens.

Putting good weapons around him won't change the checkdowns, accuracy issues, panicking, etc. I was "all in" on McCoy going into 2011. Watching him regress week after week was all I needed to know that he doesn't have "it."
Apr 1, 2012 5:16pm