DeyDurkie5;1117698 wrote:It's amazing. The regime laid out their plans. Literally have stuck to them, and people are pissed that we aren't doing the opposite. It hasn't been 5 YEARS, QUIT FREAKING OUT.

+1

DeyDurkie5;1117698 wrote:It's amazing. The regime laid out their plans. Literally have stuck to them, and people are pissed that we aren't doing the opposite. It hasn't been 5 YEARS, QUIT FREAKING OUT.

You are right, this is year 13 of "building" and still nothing. also with playing our division plus the NFC East, im sure the Browns will be racking up the wins

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1117640 wrote:who do we take at 4, 22, 37?

I perfer #6, #22, #33, #37, & #39. Take who is left over from Blackmon, Claiborne, & Richardson @ #6.

DeyDurkie5;1117698 wrote:It's amazing. The regime laid out their plans. Literally have stuck to them, and people are pissed that we aren't doing the opposite. It hasn't been 5 YEARS, QUIT FREAKING OUT.

durk bro, we are going in year 3, we don't even have a franchise qb in place yet! look im all about this "build through the draft" but we need a vet to teach the young receivers. im willing to give this regime whatever time it takes. they are straight shooters and it seems like they have an idea what they are doing. look this team is soooo talent deprived its sick, thats to mangini and konkis. we still need a franchise qb, a true #1 wide out, RT, DE, 2 LBs, 1 CB, and 1 S. looking at who we play next year, i would be surprised if we won 4 games.

Tigerfan00;1117713 wrote:You are right, this is year 13 of "building" and still nothing. also with playing our division plus the NFC East, im sure the Browns will be racking up the wins

I said this regime, whom I personally trust. If you don't, that's fine and stupid.

shook_17;1117725 wrote:durk bro, we are going in year 3, we don't even have a franchise qb in place yet! look im all about this "build through the draft" but we need a vet to teach the young receivers. im willing to give this regime whatever time it takes. they are straight shooters and it seems like they have an idea what they are doing. look this team is soooo talent deprived its sick, thats to mangini and konkis. we still need a franchise qb, a true #1 wide out, RT, DE, 2 LBs, 1 CB, and 1 S. looking at who we play next year, i would be surprised if we won 4 games.

yet you want to mortgage the farm for RG3/Barkley. Draft picks get positions filled. It's year 3/5. Our defense, imo, is at that top 15-10 range. Our offense is next for this rebuilding process. Take a xanax and calm down. It takes time to build a winner but we finally have a front office in place that knows what they were doing.

DeyDurkie5;1117726 wrote:

yet you want to mortgage the farm for RG3/Barkley. Draft picks get positions filled. It's year 3/5. Our defense, imo, is at that top 15-10 range. Our offense is next for this rebuilding process. Take a xanax and calm down. It takes time to build a winner but we finally have a front office in place that knows what they were doing.

did i want RG3? yes, I think he has all pro written all over him. Did i want to give up 3 first rounders? fuck no. I was fine with 2 first and some later rounders. I am more pissed off at the redskins for doin that. Its going to be damn near impossible to trade into the top 5 ever again because of them. I don't not like barkley at all. He plays in the warm weather, not snow, wind or by lake erie in the middle of december. I am not as high on him as some of you are.

Also I was never a big supporter of taking trent richardson, but now that hillis is gone, I think he is thrown back in the circle. but i would be happy with trent/blackmon at 4 and at 22 either wilson (RB) / wright/ floyd/ sanu

I'm not for any QB who has played at USC

Tigerfan00;1117713 wrote:You are right, this is year 13 of "building" and still nothing. also with playing our division plus the NFC East, im sure the Browns will be racking up the wins

Wrong Tigerfan00. I look at the first two year as TEAR DOWN years before H + H could even think about rebuilding. They had to purge the organization of the garbage players (sucking up money) that Man-weenie brought in before they could even begin to try to successfully rebuild. During this tearing down period, they happened to make some excellent picks (Haden, Ward, Sheard, Taylor) that put us AHEAD of schedule for the rebuilding process, in my opinion. I know it's difficult to wait because we all feel like we've been promised over and over again and have continually waited. However, now that a regime ACTUALLY understands what they are doing and how to build a franchise, look at the moves they have made and trust that they know what they are doing. No, they aren't signing the sexy free agents, but they are being very smart and intentional in the way they move forward so as to not repeat the same mistakes that have been made in the past.

Oh yeah... remember the last two times the Browns took a QB in the 1st round? (Brady Quinn and TIM COUCH)

Though I may not agree with everything the Browns do all the time , I am going to suport them in whatever they do, whether it be McCoy, Tannehill ,Richardson or whoever....This is my team and I gotta have faith even to a fault....
.
The one thing that upsets me more than anything is keeping Mangini around for a year when you and He knew that he was going to be let go....we could be a year ahead in learning this system than what we are now

I am pretty certain Tim Couch has been the best franchise QB since they returned.

Well, ... we are 20 million under the cap and it's growing bigger by the day.....

HitsRus;1117776 wrote:Well, ... we are 20 million under the cap and it's growing bigger by the day.....

Did Lerner sell the team to the Dolans?

Sonofanump;1117772 wrote:I am pretty certain Tim Couch has been the best franchise QB since they returned.

Tim Couch was a lock for a franchise QB wasn't he? As the number 1 pick in the draft?

This is exactly why I don't want to trade the farm for ANYONE

DeyDurkie5;1117698 wrote:It's amazing. The regime laid out their plans. Literally have stuck to them, and people are pissed that we aren't doing the opposite. It hasn't been 5 YEARS, QUIT FREAKING OUT.

These 4 and 5 win seasons are a great plan why would they do the opposite.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1117760 wrote:They had to purge the organization of the garbage players (sucking up money) that Man-weenie brought in before they could even begin to try to successfully rebuild.

They replaced the "garbage players" with guys like Fujita, Jayme Mitchell, Tony Pashos, Jake Delhomme, Dimitri Patterson, and Usama Young. Nice.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1117760 wrote:During this tearing down period, they happened to make some excellent picks (Haden, Ward, Sheard, Taylor) that put us AHEAD of schedule for the rebuilding process, in my opinion.

I maintain my belief that they've drafted very well for the first 2-3 picks of each draft, and poorly at best after that. You've got Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard, and Little who have shown potential. Haden and Sheard already look legit. After that though?

Round 2: Hardesty
Round 3: McCoy, Lauvao
Round 4: Cameron, Marecic
Round 5: Asante, Skrine, Pinkston
Round 6: Mitchell, Geathers
Round 7: Hagg

I'm sorry, but if you want to build exclusively through the draft you have to do better than that. Heckert loves to point out how many rookies got playing time last year. But none of them were impact players at all. I don't give a shit if Eric Hagg rotated in at safety as your team lost 9 of its last 10 games. It isn't impressive that Jordan Cameron caught 6 passes on the season after Ben Watson was KO'd with concussions.

They've apparently given up on McCoy and Hardesty. Either Lauvao or Pinkson won't be starting next year because they suck (and possibly both if Stein re-signs), Marecic is a receiving fullback so basically the least important position imaginable and still hasn't shown shit, Cameron is still a project and backup, Mitchell can't see the field with the Browns fucking receiving corps, Asante and Geathers aren't even on the team anymore, and Hagg is borderline passable as a backup safety.

I'm being patient with them, but they've given me no reason to be optimistic. I'm not running them out of town, but "having a plan" doesn't excuse the poor job they've done to this point. In my opinion, this team is in just as bad of shape now as they were 3 years ago. The talent at the top is better, but the overall talent is just as bad and there are just as many missing pieces as there were before Holmgren and Heckert came in.

Depth players are depth players for a reason. You can't build a competitive team out of them. You have to add impact pieces at some point, and they just haven't. My patience might expire after the draft next month. We'll see if they can get it done.

Mulva;1117826 wrote:They replaced the "garbage players" with guys like Fujita, Jayme Mitchell, Tony Pashos, Jake Delhomme, Dimitri Patterson, and Usama Young. Nice.

I maintain my belief that they've drafted very well for the first 2-3 picks of each draft, and poorly at best after that. You've got Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard, and Little who have shown potential. Haden and Sheard already look legit. After that though?

Round 2: Hardesty
Round 3: McCoy, Lauvao
Round 4: Cameron, Marecic
Round 5: Asante, Skrine, Pinkston
Round 6: Mitchell, Geathers
Round 7: Hagg

I'm sorry, but if you want to build exclusively through the draft you have to do better than that. Heckert loves to point out how many rookies got playing time last year.

Depth players are depth players for a reason. You can't build a competitive team out of them. You have to add impact pieces at some point, and they just haven't. My patience might expire after the draft next month. We'll see if they can get it done.

The thing to keep in mind that many of the players you mentioned ARE NOT CORE PLAYERS. They aren't players you build around. Additionally, even high draft picks are not a lock in this league. However, if you do your due diligence (which it seems they have the last two years), the first few rounds is where you GET impact players, a la Ward, Haden, Sheard, Taylor....

Looking back to pre-Holgrem, they couldn't even get it right in the early rounds! In 2007, we got Joe Thomas (GREAT pick), but then we took Quinn in the middle of round 1 and Eric Wright in round 2. In 2008, we had NO DRAFT PICKS because the morons dealt the house to GET Quinn... Luckily, we salvaged Ahtyba Rubin during that draft, and he was a 6th round pick.

The jury is still out on Hardesty, McCoy, Little, Cameron, Marecic, Skrine, and Hagg. You can't expect ALL of these guys to come in and immediately be impact players. However, several of them will be given opportunities this year, so let's see what happens.

we are out the point now, where even our later round draft picks are getting scrutinized because they aren't turning into "gamechangers"

browns fans truly are the worst.

DeyDurkie5;1117852 wrote:we are out the point now, where even our later round draft picks are getting scrutinized because they aren't turning into "gamechangers"

browns fans truly are the worst.

Haha, it's kind of funny. It's like it's not alright for your team to have ANY role players. Every player MUST BE an impact player. For Pete's sake, it's practically impossible to have a roster full of grade A-B players. I mean, look at teams with superior offenses like the Patriots... their defense is VERY weak! Our defense is pretty strong and we have 3 picks in the first 2 rounds to improve our offense. I like where we're headed.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1117866 wrote:Haha, it's kind of funny. It's like it's not alright for your team to have ANY role players. Ever player MUST BE an impact player. For Pete's sake, it's practically impossible to have a roster full of grade A-B players. I mean, look at teams with superior offenses like the Patriots... their defense is VERY weak! Our defense is pretty strong and we have 3 picks in the first 2 rounds to improve our offense. I like where we're headed.

That is ALL this team has is role players.

No, no it's not.

Skyhook79;1117867 wrote:That is ALL this team has is role players.

No, no it's not.

So you wouldn't consider Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Josh Cribbs, D'Qwell Jackson, Phil Taylor, Jabal Sheard impact players or core players?

I could think of 31 other teams that could find a spot for EACH AND EVERY ONE of those guys.

As far as the Patriots defense, they were ranked 31st in yards allowed, better than only 1 team. They were middle of the pack for points allowed at 15th.

What I'm trying to say is, VERY seldom do you see a team that has significant talent on both sides of the ball.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1117879 wrote:So you wouldn't consider Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Josh Cribbs, D'Qwell Jackson, Phil Taylor, Jabal Sheard impact players or core players?

I could think of 31 other teams that could find a spot for EACH AND EVERY ONE of those guys.

As far as the Patriots defense, they were ranked 31st in yards allowed, better than only 1 team. They were middle of the pack for points allowed at 15th.

What I'm trying to say is, VERY seldom do you see a team that has significant talent on both sides of the ball.

By Browns standards they are core players who have produced 4 & 5 win seasons which is sad. They are role players on playoff teams.

Skyhook79;1117882 wrote:By Browns standards they are core players who have produced 4 & 5 win seasons which is sad. They are role players on playoff teams.

I disagree, Haden is a top 15 CB in the NFL... I could see your argument against Ward as we have only seen 1 healthy season out of him, TONS of teams would love to have Cribbs skills on their team, D'Qwell would start on most teams, Taylor and Sheard are excellent young players that both look to have a bright future in the league.

I realize you probably just like getting a rise out of other people, but if you don't like the way the Browns are doing things, pack up and leave like Art Modell did and go cheer for the Baltimore Rats.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1117898 wrote:I disagree, Haden is a top 15 CB in the NFL... I could see your argument against Ward as we have only seen 1 healthy season out of him, TONS of teams would love to have Cribbs skills on their team, D'Qwell would start on most teams, Taylor and Sheard are excellent young players that both look to have a bright future in the league.

I realize you probably just like getting a rise out of other people, but if you don't like the way the Browns are doing things, pack up and leave like Art Modell did and go cheer for the Baltimore Rats.

No way.
No way, his biggest asset was returning kicks and the new rule took care of that.
How many players have we heard that about.
How about they start hiring better coaches and getting better players and start making the Playoffs and the fans wouldn't be so restless after 14 years of this garbage.

Dr. KnOiTaLL;1117879 wrote:So you wouldn't consider Joe Haden, TJ Ward, Josh Cribbs, D'Qwell Jackson, Phil Taylor, Jabal Sheard impact players or core players?

I could think of 31 other teams that could find a spot for EACH AND EVERY ONE of those guys.

As far as the Patriots defense, they were ranked 31st in yards allowed, better than only 1 team. They were middle of the pack for points allowed at 15th.

What I'm trying to say is, VERY seldom do you see a team that has significant talent on both sides of the ball.

They are "core" players but they are NOT "impact" players. Besides Joe Thomas or Joe Haden, name a Brown who would start for the Steelers or Ravens. Now Alex Mack could probably bump Matt Birk (who is about 100) from the starting spot in Baltimore but he wouldn't bump Pouncey.

I won't argue that the Browns have built up a solid "core" but there are no impact "game changers." We don't have any Troy Polamalu's, Ed Reed's, Ray Lewis's or Terrell Sugg's on this team. Nobody fears ANY Browns player. Josh Cribbs was once that ONE guy but now that his skills are diminished they are left with none.

You CAN win with "just a group of guys" as Bill Belichick (except for Tom Brady being that "impact" guy) has done for years but it does help when you have a few superstars (whether drafted or grabbed in FA)

I also agree with Mulva's post in that they have done OK with their early picks but after that the jury is still out. All of those picks (2011) got playing time last year not so much because they were "starting caliber" in as much as it was a lost season and the staff were looking to evaluate and get these guys some time on the field.