oldsmithie;1273440 wrote:I really thought that both, Dalton and Waynedale would start to turn the corner this year. There is such a huge parity between the top 4 and the bottom 4 in the league. I also believe that we will see some parity between the top 4 very soon. Hillsdale is at Smithville this week and the Smithies have not beaten them in 5 years. Over the last 10 years Hillsdale has won 6 and lost 4 to the Smithies. I think that Smithville will have to play above their abilities to have a chance. I can't seem to get a handle on this years Smithies, they looked very bad against loudonville and Mogadore, then looked much improved against Fairless and Waynedale, but the last 2 teams have been struggling this year. I guess this game will show us if they have improved.

1486wd;1273670 wrote:I actually think Dalton is substantially better this year. Last year they were the worst Dalton team I had seen in 25 years, not surprising with the number of freshmen playing. This year,they are sill not very good but area lotbetter. I do think as these kids mature into jrs, they will move into the top half of the league once again. Doty is doing a nice coaching job IMO .

Havin Fun;1273677 wrote:Same with Coach Doty at Dalton. Exceptional person. Dalton will have trouble competing from here on out simply because the rest of the league has improved dramatically and there just are not enough athletes year in and year out in a school thier size to win on a consistent basis. Does not mean they won't win a title but it will they will be very rare.

ghostrider;1273693 wrote:M

Here is 10....Hawkins, Leudeman, Wardell, Stanley, Lorenze, Short, Nelson kids, Staggs kids, .....i don't know if they could make an impact, but they are certainly athletes.

Now if I'm not mistaken, all of those kids played at some point and time. Matter of fact Wardell was pretty good, Lorenze won the game at NWN last year and both quit for some reason or another.;

Buckz#1;1273571 wrote:I agree with you on some of this. The boys don't think coach Z is a jerk and they don't hate him but they have absolutly NO RESPECT for him! To me when you are in any coaching position that MUST come 1st! He does expect a higher level of discipline, attitude, work ethic, and common sense from the boys. But his expectations are TOO high. He expects the boys to be just like him when he was in school. For him that was how he was brought up from birth but these boys were not. He can't expect to turn them all around in 1 preseason!
I like Coach Z and so did my boys but I think he needs to adapt to the boys. He needs to stop trying to make them into him and work with who they are! They are teenagers and they rebel and that is what his team is doing! The harder he pushes the harder they push back! I'm not saying that he shouldn't expect all the things that he does but he need to not expect them at such a high level.
The biggest problem that we hear from the boys, his own coaches and the community is that he does not listen! It takes a whole team of coaches to run a team not just one man. This is evident when he comes to the JV, Freshman, and Jr High games and takes over. It's great that he and his players support the lower levels but that is all it should be...support!

Havin Fun;1273710 wrote:And of that list, which one would give the Bears the O and D line they are sorely missing? Other than Lorenz, who was just the kicker, there isnt a one over 150 pounds soaking wet except Hawkins and he has never played football in his life. We have the skill players. We have no line. That is why we are losing. None of those mentioned could even start on either line if if they went out for football. No offense to any of these kids. They are not the missing link to a winning season.

eyes r burning;1273665 wrote:I do agree that a high school coach has to play the hand that they are dealt, so in a small school you need recruit all the CARDS you can get. If you have a problem relating to the kids you your only ever going to be playing with have a deck.

Have been leaning on the fence close to fifty years have seen a lot of football and many differnt offense ran, but truthfully I have no ideal what they are trying to do, but I'm and old man and I think this game has passed me by. But as I stand there and watch the game and look around it's not 3 or deep on the fence and the stands are pretty much down to those soft parants and soft kids (wcalfan words not mine). Sure someone will look into the revanue issue sometime must likely levy time and they can start to connect the dots.

Take a good hard look at the bears roster we have a handful of seniors, jrs, 10 graders and a boat load of freshmen. But these 3 classes ahead of this freshmen class fielded teams in the 7th, 8th, 9th grades. Football is about numbers to just not talent your never know how kids will develope. Are the dots starting to come together for anyone out there? Maybe we can go down to the jr. high and hire one of them to be a high school recuirting coordinator, lets hope this freshmen class and thier parents don't get soft (wcalfan words not mine)

wcalfan you have broke me, there will be one less at the games from now on, like I said this game has just passed me by, will still support my bears when they come knocking on my door looking to sale something, just like i always have for a very long time.

wcalfan, I have a son who married a couple years ago and is getting ready to start a family would really like him to come to your clinic I hope you are setting up, you know some kind of get take tough parent and get tough kid thing you will be doing for the district.

To my bears shock the world this Friday, you gotta believe, atack on defense, cant set back and get picked apart. Offensively ? not sure wcalfan will have something for you guys I'm sure hopefully it isn't fake punt 3 times and kick it away of 4th down.

1486wd;1273670 wrote:I actually think Dalton is substantially better this year. Last year they were the worst Dalton team I had seen in 25 years, not surprising with the number of freshmen playing. This year,they are sill not very good but area lotbetter. I do think as these kids mature into jrs, they will move into the top half of the league once again. Doty is doing a nice coaching job IMO .

Havin Fun;1273677 wrote:Same with Coach Doty at Dalton. Exceptional person. Dalton will have trouble competing from here on out simply because the rest of the league has improved dramatically and there just are not enough athletes year in and year out in a school thier size to win on a consistent basis. Does not mean they won't win a title but it will they will be very rare.

Jmar25;1273716 wrote:They don't respect him??? Why???? I'm really lost on this... Who do they respect then??? I think this is more to what I was alluding to early with the attitude problem... These kids "respect" those who let them get away with murder or don't work hard or who act as their friend and not the authority figure....

I am sure he knows they won't be choir boys but as my coach put it to us... you're a football player at waynedale... you're expected to be held to a higher standard. You do something dumb.... you'll pay for it in grand fashion. DEAL WITH IT! You get the privilege of playing football it isn't a right...

I think kids not coming out has more to do with them not willing to put in the work that he requires them to do and him acting as an authority figure instead of a buddy. But I don't know... that is the feeling I get from listening to some parents, talking with some of those in the school, and personal experience from being around the school from time to time.

I know nothing about the jr high thing... but i don't know how you could be upset about him coaching the jv and fresh... those are his kids on his team. I've seen a lot of coaches cut in from time to time at the jv/fresh level. Seder did it with his freshman teams... He would come in from time to time to help out with JV too and he had Louie running that and he was MORE THAN CAPABLE to do that.

ghostrider;1273693 wrote:M

Here is 10....Hawkins, Leudeman, Wardell, Stanley, Lorenze, Short, Nelson kids, Staggs kids, .....i don't know if they could make an impact, but they are certainly athletes.

Now if I'm not mistaken, all of those kids played at some point and time. Matter of fact Wardell was pretty good, Lorenze won the game at NWN last year and both quit for some reason or another.;

Jmar25;1273703 wrote:I don't know much about hawkins,leudeman, lorenze, or short.... BUT....

Would Wardell help... ya... would he be an impact player??? If he isn't hurt... maybe... kid rolls ankles and is bumped up all the time during wrestling... He may have practiced once a week for about month... As talented as you may be... repetition is a dire need and if you don't practice... you'll have a tough time being succesful

Stanley... never seen him play football... I know he has the grit for it... Would he help... sure...

Scratch the Nelson Boys... I mean seriously... Not a chance in H E double hockey sticks those boys would ever play football. They are wrestlers. Nothing else.

Staggs... Yes... but once again... The older one has some health issues. I don't think he would be able to make it through the season unfortunately. The youngest would help and most likely be an impact player at some point.

Havin Fun;1273710 wrote:And of that list, which one would give the Bears the O and D line they are sorely missing? Other than Lorenz, who was just the kicker, there isnt a one over 150 pounds soaking wet except Hawkins and he has never played football in his life. We have the skill players. We have no line. That is why we are losing. None of those mentioned could even start on either line if if they went out for football. No offense to any of these kids. They are not the missing link to a winning season.

Jmar25;1273716 wrote:They don't respect him??? Why???? I'm really lost on this... Who do they respect then??? I think this is more to what I was alluding to early with the attitude problem... These kids "respect" those who let them get away with murder or don't work hard or who act as their friend and not the authority figure....

I am sure he knows they won't be choir boys but as my coach put it to us... you're a football player at waynedale... you're expected to be held to a higher standard. You do something dumb.... you'll pay for it in grand fashion. DEAL WITH IT! You get the privilege of playing football it isn't a right...

I think kids not coming out has more to do with them not willing to put in the work that he requires them to do and him acting as an authority figure instead of a buddy. But I don't know... that is the feeling I get from listening to some parents, talking with some of those in the school, and personal experience from being around the school from time to time.

I know nothing about the jr high thing... but i don't know how you could be upset about him coaching the jv and fresh... those are his kids on his team. I've seen a lot of coaches cut in from time to time at the jv/fresh level. Seder did it with his freshman teams... He would come in from time to time to help out with JV too and he had Louie running that and he was MORE THAN CAPABLE to do that.

1486wd;1273727 wrote:Two comments-1. Dalton has been the smallest school in the league forever
2. Because schools are better right now does not mean it is a permanent improvement (probably will be for some, likely not all). Dalton is one that has stood the test of time. Remember, they are only one year removed from making the playoffs several straight seasons

Old Dawg;1273725 wrote:Yea, last year was a struggle for the pups. And although improved, it might not show in the win column. Hoping for 4 wins! But you mentioning 25 yrs ago made me pull out the old yearbook. That year the dawgs were 8-2, with losses to Smithville and take a guess..........Rittman! Like a previous poster said, this ain't your fathers WCL anymore!!

was_that_it;1273744 wrote:Dalton is a team I always enjoyed competing against and have always enjoyed watching. Those kids have always worked hard and played hard, I have always had respect for their effort even when the team isn't as "good". They will be relevant again soon. Rittman is another story.

Buckz#1;1273760 wrote:I thought I made the reason for the loss of respect clear in my post. Coach Z is trying to make these kids into something they are not. He has one mold to fill and if you don't fit your on the sidelines.
Who do they respect? Coach Conrad, Coach D Lemon, Coach K Lemon, Coach Louie and the coach the freshman had as peewee players. (can't remember the name but they still get advise from him even though he still coaches Peewee). Why do they respect them and not Z? He can not adapt to the kids. This is not the Army.One regiment does not fit all. You work with the kids and learn what works for who and who works best where. All of these coaches are able to adjust, be an authority figure, and still be a friend. As I said before, these are teenagers. They need someone to talk to who's gonna tell them the truth. Not text them with promisses of playing time week after week only to end up on the sidelines week after week!
As far as him stepping in for JV and Freshman, they have Coach Lemon. He knows the boys he knows what they are capable of. The minute Coach Z starts yelling the boys start rolling their eyes. Decisions have been made to spread all the freshman out and put Reibe in as quarterback over Strausbaugh #2? Has the death of the freshman class already begun?
Coach Z has the knowledge and ability to lead these boys to State! The boys have the talent! The Coach will need to adapt or Waynedale will stay at the bottom for years to come!

Buckz#1;1273760 wrote:I thought I made the reason for the loss of respect clear in my post. Coach Z is trying to make these kids into something they are not. He has one mold to fill and if you don't fit your on the sidelines.
Who do they respect? Coach Conrad, Coach D Lemon, Coach K Lemon, Coach Louie and the coach the freshman had as peewee players. (can't remember the name but they still get advise from him even though he still coaches Peewee). Why do they respect them and not Z? He can not adapt to the kids. This is not the Army.One regiment does not fit all. You work with the kids and learn what works for who and who works best where. All of these coaches are able to adjust, be an authority figure, and still be a friend. As I said before, these are teenagers. They need someone to talk to who's gonna tell them the truth. Not text them with promisses of playing time week after week only to end up on the sidelines week after week!
As far as him stepping in for JV and Freshman, they have Coach Lemon. He knows the boys he knows what they are capable of. The minute Coach Z starts yelling the boys start rolling their eyes. Decisions have been made to spread all the freshman out and put Reibe in as quarterback over Strausbaugh #2? Has the death of the freshman class already begun?
Coach Z has the knowledge and ability to lead these boys to State! The boys have the talent! The Coach will need to adapt or Waynedale will stay at the bottom for years to come!

wcalfan;1273797 wrote:When the going gets tough, our kids/parents make excuses.

Havin Fun;1273788 wrote:Beast - I respect the heck out of you and your opinions. But I go back to the question, which one of those kids listed would help out on our Offensive or Defensive lines? Would either of the Nelson boys take Josh's palce in the backfield? Would Ludeman play over anyone at a skill position? He has been hurt several times playing soccer. Lorenze made the move to soccer because he has played it since he could walk. The kicker we have now is 3/3 on extra points. Not sure how a better kicker would help when we simply can't run the football. Each game we have been over matched by bigger lines that are simply better than our lines. Norwayne and Hillsdale have good skill players but they are not that much better than the players the Bears have. The Falcons and Bobcats have just been blessed with huge kids during this era. This will pass and it will be our turn again to win a title.
Correct me if I am wrong but the Bears I think are the only team outside of Norwayne and Hillsdale to have a win against every league team in the last 3 years.
Good night.

eyes r burning;1273814 wrote:Please lets not put all this on the o-line, when did the coaching staff relalize that this line is going need help? the frist practice? after the frist game?
Power I will create some creases I know its not fancy and collage like, but maybe give it a try. Jamr lets don't bring up the spread our qb leads the area int's and we tried that one year remember pumped up this senior to be with a rocket arm, think the kid got one things didn't go his way, al qb's have a bad game once in awhile, just ask the Browns. Well after this bad game the spread was scraped and this rocket arm qb stood one the sidelines for the rest of the year, I hope aleast the coaching staff thanked him for the work he put in that summer before.