gut;984651 wrote:If and when online gambling is legalized (I think it's a matter of time, especially with Vegas hurting and good 'ol Harry Reid swinging some clout), all the major casinos will be launching sites probably within days.

Not that it will solve any of the issues I mentioned, but it would be nice to be able to place a sport bet legally. But that raises interesting strategic decisions for the casinos - gambling has long since peaked in Vegas with the proliferation of local casinos (and in Macau), but if online gambling cost them even 10% in visitation the impact on room rates would be huge.

Maybe the solution is legalize online poker and nothing else (even though sportsbook is a pittance for Vegas, it does attract huge visitation for March Madness and the SB).

While the sportsbooks are a pittance in terms of money the casino makes..a good sportsbook brings people to a certain casino where they obviously spend more money. Also, on football Saturday's and Sunday's...lots of books are just packed. You need to be in line by 9:50 to make sure you get your early session NFL bets in.

Back during the poker boom, I turned a $10 signup bonus into about $1500 and cashed out by just playing 1 table $10 tourneys.

hope this helps.

karen lotz;984785 wrote:I don't think anything else besides poker is even being discussed is it? They just had a hearing last week where people tried to prove that it was a game of skill and not "gambling" and I think it would be a little more difficult to convince people that betting on the NCAA tourney is a game of skill.

I don't think anything else is being discussed. I'll never really get how it's relevant whether it's a game of skill or not though. If I want to gamble that really doesn't seem like anybody's business. It's my money.

I'm sure it will happen eventually. Online sports betting is legal just about everywhere else. Not that it's really stopping anyone from doing it anyway. The people who want to gamble online already do.

TBone14;984820 wrote:While the sportsbooks are a pittance in terms of money the casino makes..a good sportsbook brings people to a certain casino where they obviously spend more money. Also, on football Saturday's and Sunday's...lots of books are just packed. You need to be in line by 9:50 to make sure you get your early session NFL bets in.

Outside of the weekends I mentioned, it's really not a big impact. Casinos make almost all their profit on slots, table games and hotel rooms (which in the past has been about 40% of revenues, with gaming another 40%). Food & Beverage and Entertainment are typically break-even business. A good number of Vegas casinos do not even have a sportsbook.

There's a big profit opportunity in online sportsbook and poker. I'm not sure other online table games would really be all that popular, but it would likely have a much bigger impact on occupancy if gambling ceases to be a big draw to Vegas.

There are only a few states that could potentially have sportsbook betting. However, many states are now getting a lot of revenue off of slots at local casinos, and to a lesser extent (non-poker) table games. With taxation of online gambling unclear, I don't think anything besides poker and sportsbook have a chance of being legalized because the state will protect that tax revenue.

karen lotz;984780 wrote:Good news is a sale of Full Tilt was just approved within the last week or so and they are working out how they will get people their money.

Hopefully, though from what I've heard the best we're looking at is a % refund. I believe Dwan said in an interview the best case scenario he could see was 60%

If there's any karma in this world, Lederer and Bitar will be in a federal pound me in the ass prison within the next year.

2kool4skool;985250 wrote: If there's any karma in this world, Lederer and Bitar will be in a federal pound me in the ass prison within the next year.

Funny, you see guys like Lederer on tv and they seem like a decent enough guy....Then you remember most of those pros are still degenerate gamblers and their ethics MIGHT begin and end with cheating at cards.

2kool4skool;985250 wrote:Hopefully, though from what I've heard the best we're looking at is a % refund. I believe Dwan said in an interview the best case scenario he could see was 60%

If there's any karma in this world, Lederer and Bitar will be in a federal pound me in the ass prison within the next year.

I hadn't seen the % thing. I guess 60% is better then 0, which is what I thought it would be.

karen lotz;985270 wrote:I hadn't seen the % thing. I guess 60% is better then 0, which is what I thought it would be.

Unless Lederer and Bitar have literally pissed away all the money they took out, one would expect a class action can go after that money. Problem is, the US players were violating US law, I believe, so kind of tough for them to sue without possibly facing other legal repercussions.

gut;985260 wrote:Funny, you see guys like Lederer on tv and they seem like a decent enough guy....Then you remember most of those pros are still degenerate gamblers and their ethics MIGHT begin and end with cheating at cards.

Yeah. As a poker player, it's cool to hear about how Lederer lived in homeless shelters so he could have more money to play poker when he was coming up in the game. But looking back, perhaps that isn't the sort of guy you want running a 100+ million dollar company.

I think the problem was when the government and banks tightened up their restrictions on money being deposited.

Full tilt would take the deposit and give you money right away to play, but charge would not post for several days. The month or two leading up till black Friday you could make a deposit, full tilt would give you the money on their site, but when they tried to get the money from the banks they were denied. I think up until then it was a legitimate operation. But when they were unable to get the money the people deposited all hell broke lose.
If online poker had been legal the whole time in usa I don't think we would be talking about FTP in this negative light.


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For sure. The problem is, once FullTilt realized they weren't able to credit player accounts, they started covering new deposits with existing players' money. They likely viewed this as a short term fix, but when Black Friday happened, there was a proverbial "run on the bank" that they weren't even CLOSE to being able to cover. Most estimates say they couldn't have even covered half of players' money.

They saw this practice as a way to get a leg up on Poker Stars, who was beating them consistently over the years in player traffic(Pokerstars would not credit accounts unless the money actually went through, causing many players to be shut out, hence the opportunity to gain market share by Full Tilt.)

Poker Stars was running a legitimate business, albeit in a less than legitimate industry. FullTilt's ethical shortcut just made them a straight up scam.

Ah ok. I looked at the site a little last night and it said it only takes credit card for deposits so how do you withdraw money? I'd rather not have money stuck on there too, I have a decent amount on Full Tilt as it is.

Good news is a sale of Full Tilt was just approved within the last week or so and they are working out how they will get people their money.

Cashouts are checks sent to you it takes about 2-4 weeks so far no one in the US has had any problems and have got 100% of requests




The problem with full tilt was the bonuses they gave you for signing up and the money they were paying pros to support their website.

Who knows how much Lederer really knew what was goign on he wasnt really running the site. Lederer was just one of the first pros to throw his name behind the owners and got a % of the company by doing so. Lederer has donated more money to charity then he supposedly took. From what im hearing early next year poker should be back up online. Most of the big game players were smart enough to not keep very much of their bankroll on any one site.

If you are a big online poker player you need to get on 2+2 Poker and do some research on the various site that are up and running. Also take some time and read some of the posts about things like the bluff poker challenge scandal or the jungleman scandal. You can find info on any game type and advice on the different levels. Lots of sound people to talk poker stategy with and compare thoughts. I had averaged some good money on these site the last few years i hate seeing them down.