We have all seen that higher technology has had a human cost regarding job losses in our labor force. But that is a discussion for a different thread. The postal service has been hit hard by technology. In and of itself, that is not really a bad thing. Email has made our lives a lot better.

What I found remarkable in this article.....the union have written in their contracts that they cannot be laid off. Huh? That's right...it is illegal to downsize the labor force inspite of their dwindling business.

So....the tax payers are gonna have to bail them out?

The USA Today, on their front page a few weeks ago, had an article stating that the private sector fires about 3.4% of their workers annually. Conversely, the Federal Government workers "firing rate" is less than .2 of 1%. (.002).

I guess the moral of the story....get a government job....you get paid for just showing up....and you can't get laid off if business dries up.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/business/in-internet-age-postal-service-struggles-to-stay-solvent-and-relevant.html

Heck, most of what I get via snail mail these days is junk (was able to opt-out of the pile of credit card offers at least).

Although, it's a sad thought that 30-40 years from now the younger generation won't have any idea what "going postal" means.

It's double edged. Obviously that provision in the contract is BS and badly needs fixing. But until that is addressed (maybe via severance offers to get people to leave), the closing of small branches and eliminating Saturday delivery is a start.

Yet, everyone balks when the cost savings affects them. People fight tooth and nail to keep these post offices that serve towns of 10 people because they may have to drive a whole 3 miles to get to one. I know in my county they are fighting one in a more populated area than that, even though said town has a Giant Eagle that has every service of a post office except PO Boxes (which can be found in the neighboring town less than 5 miles away if you really wanted one).

USPS needs rid of the massive bloat in both ways... A large reduction in workforce (and whatever it takes to do so ASAP) as well as in duplication of services. There is a TON of fat to trim.

The post office union people dispute the numbers on this, saying they're in the red because of Congress putting too much money into the coffers for retirement and health care...and that money counts as expenses against their revenue. If you take that out, they're making a profit.

Hilarious "logic", of course. Only union folks would think that retirement and health care aren't part of the cost of doing business because it's government.

If any government agency needed a massive enema decades ago, it's the postal service.

Writerbuckeye;885119 wrote:The post office union people dispute the numbers on this, saying they're in the red because of Congress putting too much money into the coffers for retirement and health care...and that money counts as expenses against their revenue. If you take that out, they're making a profit.

Hilarious "logic", of course. Only union folks would think that retirement and health care aren't part of the cost of doing business because it's government.

If any government agency needed a massive enema decades ago, it's the postal service.

I expect to hear more chatter from the elitists about an internet tax during this Post Office "crisis".
I expect to hear about raising the price of stamps because...well...umm...isn't that what FedEx and UPS do when costs exceed revenues? :rolleyes: Just like COTA in C-bus...ridership goes down, the rates go up!
I expect to hear about keeping offices open that serve less than 100 people because that's the way it's always been.
I expect ObamaKare, and ultimately the single-payer system the socialists covet, to exactly mirror the Post Office crumbling, only faster.

I guess this is what Obama meant by fundamental change. Is everyone happy about it or what??? :laugh:

Even with a government-bestowed monopoly they still can't make a profit ---- $#%ing hilarious.

Why is it that the common theme among all the major failures - both private and public -- seems to be unionism?

Refresh my memory. What union was responsible for Lehman Brothers?

analogkid;885409 wrote:Refresh my memory. What union was responsible for Lehman Brothers?

The Fannie & Freddie Federal Credit Union maybe?

analogkid;885409 wrote:Refresh my memory. What union was responsible for Lehman Brothers?

Dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.

What does Lehman Bros have to do with the Postal Union? This thread is about how the USPS is trying to dive further into our collective pockets due to mismanagement, poor decisions, unaccountability, bad faith bargaining, and utter failure to control costs on their part.

I'm all for cutting the cord and seeing if the USPS can survive as a private enterprise. If they can't do the job for a reasonable price, it's time to go away and let others do the job. No more freakin bailouts. Step up or step out of the way. That's the 2 choices, USPS.

analogkid;885409 wrote:Refresh my memory. What union was responsible for Lehman Brothers?

WTF are you talking about?

BGFalcons82;885153 wrote:I expect to hear about raising the price of stamps because...well...umm...isn't that what FedEx and UPS do when costs exceed revenues? :rolleyes:

To be fair, their price point is still quite low compared to UPS/FedEx. They could raise and still be at the bottom of the market range. Trimming the fat should happen first, and if they legitimately need to charge more then, go ahead, because they are on the low end.

ts1227;885570 wrote:To be fair, their price point is still quite low compared to UPS/FedEx. They could raise and still be at the bottom of the market range. Trimming the fat should happen first, and if they legitimately need to charge more then, go ahead, because they are on the low end.

By law, the US Postal Service is not permitted to increase the price faster than the rate of inflation....was in the same article.

Footwedge;885603 wrote:By law, the US Postal Service is not permitted to increase the price faster than the rate of inflation....was in the same article.

Oops, forgot about that. But if they took all other avenues to cut and could prove the price point is still an issue, I would not object to some measure being taken to bring it in line somehow, then raise with inflation from there.

And some of you think the gubment should be running healthcare? LMFAO. Just one more story of how the unions ruin everything they touch. Maybe the problem is the post master general making near 6 figures, or time and a half on Saturdays, (which no one needs mail then).

Many of you are confusing the US post office with a free market entity. It is no such thing. It is a government service. Profit is not in the equation nor should it be. Postage fees and stamps are a tax for a government service. Who would complain if the military did not turn a profit.

Also the federal government chooses to not maintain a monopoly on postal service. There are competing private entities providing equal and better service. Be thankful the feds have not used this actual constitutional power to stifle private alternative postal services. There is actual power for them to do so. I would be hard pressed to find a valid constitutional argument against the feds to do just that. The states and the people were not capable of providing such a service to reach all the citizens of the United States at the time of the founding so they gave that power to the federal government.

Now the military is maintained as a federal monopoly and should be. Imagine the UDS (United Defense Service) or FedDef. Of course and rightfully so the feds would never allow private competition for the defense of the nation. The feds have equal power over post offices and postal roads. They allow private competition in this area by there good graces.

That said current technology has rendered the USPS a dinosaur. The feds have not adapted. The states and the people may no longer need the collective power of the federal government to guarantee the provision of postal service at affordable rates to all its citizens. The feds should be looking into private entities ability to provide the service. At some point this power should be amended out of the constitution with the feds maintaining at the most a regulatory authority. Which they have already grabbed anyway and anywhere on a whole host of other issues. Oh well. As Jimmy Hoffa says we are in a war and its time to take the sons of bitches out.

"Many of you are confusing the US post office with a free market entity. It is no such thing. It is a government service. Profit is not in the equation nor should it be. "

Profits, sure. Excess deficits, absolutely. Like most unionized entities (public and private) the USPS workforce is hesitant to change the status quo, unlike most other unionized entities (public and private) their contract actively prohibits changing so we're left with an antiquated and poor service that bleeds money. Even other public sector unions allow RIFs when funding is down or the customer base changes. In Huntington WV, where my brother was an NEA teacher RIFs happened every year due to the declining population and thus declining student base of the city. The idea that we're paying people to come in and sit in the lunchroom everyday is absolutely insane.

Manhattan Buckeye;885773 wrote:"Many of you are confusing the US post office with a free market entity. It is no such thing. It is a government service. Profit is not in the equation nor should it be. "

Profits, sure. Excess deficits, absolutely. Like most unionized entities (public and private) the USPS workforce is hesitant to change the status quo, unlike most other unionized entities (public and private) their contract actively prohibits changing so we're left with an antiquated and poor service that bleeds money. Even other public sector unions allow RIFs when funding is down or the customer base changes. In Huntington WV, where my brother was an NEA teacher RIFs happened every year due to the declining population and thus declining student base of the city. The idea that we're paying people to come in and sit in the lunchroom everyday is absolutely insane.

I am not saying government services should bleed money. If they do so they should be cut off yesterday. Like I said the USPS is a dinosaur that should become extinct. I don't want them to take too much of my money and profit. Just enough to provide the service.

majorspark;885763 wrote:Also the federal government chooses to not maintain a monopoly on postal service. There are competing private entities providing equal and better service.

First, the federal government DOES maintain a monopoly on the postal service. As long as it's illegal to put something without a postage stamp in a mailbox, they have a monopoly.

Second, private entities do not provide equal and better service because NOBODY WANTS THE JOB. While FedEx, UPS, DHL, and others do similar things; none of them want the overhead required for "simple" first-class mail. Delivering first-class mail (not parcels or packages or express or overnight) is a losing proposition. Why do you think USPS has been pushing their overnight and express envelopes in recent years? To offset the losses they take on first-class mail.

"Second, private entities do not provide equal and better service because NOBODY WANTS THE JOB."

Very true, but what they can do is serve as a middle man, in many other countries the "local post office" is a money exchange/lottery ticket/cigarette bodega that has the capabilities of weighing and posting packages and letters. It isn't as if the U.S. doesn't do this already. We don't have special stores for lottery tickets. They are sold at gas stations and the like. It is subcontracted by the lottery commission. In the U.S. why do I have to go to an official post office to mail anything when Wal-Mart, Target, etc. would be happy to serve as a distributor, and take the contract for their services that would be far more efficient and far more convenient than the current system.

Altor;885841 wrote:First, the federal government DOES maintain a monopoly on the postal service. As long as it's illegal to put something without a postage stamp in a mailbox, they have a monopoly.

Ok they have a monopoly on mail boxes. It may be illegal to put something in my mailbox with out a postage stamp. My mailbox is about 200ft from my house. UPS, FedEx deliver to my door. If you are not there they wrap the package in plastic.

Altor;885841 wrote:Second, private entities do not provide equal and better service because NOBODY WANTS THE JOB. While FedEx, UPS, DHL, and others do similar things; none of them want the overhead required for "simple" first-class mail. Delivering first-class mail (not parcels or packages or express or overnight) is a losing proposition. Why do you think USPS has been pushing their overnight and express envelopes in recent years? To offset the losses they take on first-class mail.

95% of my mail is junk mail. Most of it goes from the mailbox straight to the trash. I receive and pay all of my bills online. I rarely write checks. I rarely use stamps. The USPS has a failed to adapt. Do you work for the USPS?

I stated on prior posts that the USPS is not it the business nor should it be of making profits. To my knowledge at this point the feds do not prohibit private companies from delivering "first class" mail. So there is not a monopoly. If it is not profitable for them to do so ok. The feds have the constitutional authority to provide that service at the cost of the taxpayer. It is my opinion that the USPS has failed to adapt to current technological advances and saving taxpayers dollars.

majorspark;885852 wrote:The feds have the constitutional authority to provide that service at the cost of the taxpayer. It is my opinion that the USPS has failed to adapt to current technological advances and saving taxpayers dollars.

That is, in fact, the bottom-line.

Decades of unionism, political crony-ism, piss poor management, and failure to recognize & adapt to technological changes have combined to make the USPS a relic.

It's like trying to play a 45 RPM vinyl record on an mp3 player.

believer;885873 wrote:...

It's like trying to play a 45 RPM vinyl record on an mp3 player.

You do know that that doesn't work, right!?

I speak from experience. Just sayin'.

ps: 8-tracks don't work either.

There are ways around it. What I see them doing is shutting down the little town postal branches and the larger towns consuming them. I see it happening in Defiance county. Actually have a good friend who is the postmaster at a small branch, and it is up for shut down, along with some other small post offices. That right there is one way to "lay off."

analogkid;885409 wrote:Refresh my memory. What union was responsible for Lehman Brothers?

Not that your point has merit, but Lehman is indeed gone, which is what happens, and should happen, in free markets --- the opportunity to fail must exist. Now, where entities are heavily unionized, i.e. public sector and GM etc... well, they get a bailout from the obama regime, and in the case of GM, the company is stolen from bondholders and simply given to the union.

Change we can believe in .....

ts1227;885570 wrote:To be fair, their price point is still quite low compared to UPS/FedEx.

My contention has been that the USPS uses it 44 cent stamp rates to help subsidize its overnight rates, thus they can publish slightly lower overnight rates versus FedEx/UPS who are, generally speaking, only in the overnight business or the freight business. Without that revenue/cost shifting, I believe the USPS would get buried by these private entities if competing in the same arena.