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se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Aug 18, 2011 1:05 PM
Quite frankly, I'm sick of it. I just don't understand why people think that taking without giving is ok and justifiable. I read an article on Issue 2 that made me think, could any teacher out there stand face to face with me, and give me a reason why the taxpayers of the state should foot the bill for healthcare, but they shouldn't have to pay ANY percentage of their own? Also, heaven forbid they get a raise based on merit, rather than just being alive and showing up to work. This is only one example of the entitled society we live in today.

/rant
Aug 18, 2011 1:05pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Aug 18, 2011 1:42 PM
Where is Issue 2 on the ballot?

What district does not ask for a teacher to pay zero toward their healthcare costs?
Aug 18, 2011 1:42pm
power i's avatar

power i

Senior Member

1,296 posts
Aug 18, 2011 1:47 PM
^^Not ours.
Aug 18, 2011 1:47pm
4cards's avatar

4cards

Ohio Chatter Legend

2,551 posts
Aug 18, 2011 1:49 PM
^^^^
...that's because you're rich! :)
Aug 18, 2011 1:49pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:02 PM
I blame the baby boomers.
Aug 18, 2011 2:02pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:16 PM
wkfan;866547 wrote:Where is Issue 2 on the ballot?

What district does not ask for a teacher to pay zero toward their healcare costs?
Yea, I kinda ran thoughts together there. Ohio teachers do pay like 10% of their healthcare, in some states they don't pay any.
Aug 18, 2011 2:16pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:22 PM
se-alum;866593 wrote:Yea, I kinda ran thoughts together there. Ohio teachers do pay like 10% of their healthcare, in some states they don't pay any.

There are many single teachers that pay 0% of their healthcare. The cost of a single person isn't as much than providing family healthcare. It cost more to pay 90% of family coverage than 100% of single.
Aug 18, 2011 2:22pm
S

Sonofanump

Aug 18, 2011 2:34 PM
se-alum;866497 wrote:Also, heaven forbid they get a raise based on merit, rather than just being alive and showing up to work.

I'd love to hear how you quantify merit for teachers.
Aug 18, 2011 2:34pm
S

Sonofanump

Aug 18, 2011 2:34 PM
se-alum;866497 wrote:Also, heaven forbid they get a raise based on merit, rather than just being alive and showing up to work.

I'd love to hear how you quantify merit for teachers.
Aug 18, 2011 2:34pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:41 PM
Sonofanump;866607 wrote:I'd love to hear how you quantify merit for teachers.

1. Have they used this site to hook up with students?

YES: Merit.
NO: No Merit.
Aug 18, 2011 2:41pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:43 PM
Sonofanump;866607 wrote:I'd love to hear how you quantify merit for teachers.

Why do you link quantify with merit? Many if not most jobs involve evaluating performance based largely on subjective criteria.

I know who my good and poor teachers were, I have no doubt that administrators are at least as qualified to make that determination.
Aug 18, 2011 2:43pm
j_crazy's avatar

j_crazy

7 gram rocks. how i roll.

8,372 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:49 PM
queencitybuckeye;866617 wrote:Why do you link quantify with merit? Many if not most jobs involve evaluating performance based largely on subjective criteria.

I know who my good and poor teachers were, I have no doubt that administrators are at least as qualified to make that determination.

agreed. my company fires people who don't show year on year improvement on deficiencies noted during your performance eval.
Aug 18, 2011 2:49pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:50 PM
ccrunner609;866621 wrote:Ok, the OP here isnt educated enough here. There isnt one school district in Ohio that pays 100% of their employees heal thcare benefits unless they are a urban district that is getting federal money to do this (which I dont think they even do that).

You're wrong. Read my post above. There are many districts that pay 100% of employees who take out single person coverage.
Aug 18, 2011 2:50pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:51 PM
ccrunner609;866621 wrote:Ok, the OP here isnt educated enough here. There isnt one school district in Ohio that pays 100% of their employees heal thcare benefits unless they are a urban district that is getting federal money to do this (which I dont think they even do that).
The contract under which Hilliard teachers are working is the first one which required them to pay a dime toward their health care. Unless we were the very last district to do so...
Aug 18, 2011 2:51pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:53 PM
se-alum;866593 wrote:Yea, I kinda ran thoughts together there. Ohio teachers do pay like 10% of their healthcare, in some states they don't pay any.
Many, if not most pay what SB5 is askig for....15%.

I do not care what happens in other states and it is not relevant to either SB5 or whatever Issue 2 is.

ernest_t_bass;866602 wrote:There are many single teachers that pay 0% of their healthcare. The cost of a single person isn't as much than providing family healthcare. It cost more to pay 90% of family coverage than 100% of single.
I would like to see some proof of that. The medical plans that I am familiar with do charge differently if you are single or have more dependents (family plan), but I thik that few, if any, still charge nothing for medical care.
Aug 18, 2011 2:53pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:54 PM
ccrunner609;866621 wrote:Now in regards to merit....people that throw that out dont know what they are talking about. There is no way that merit can work as the sole way to pay teachers. We are required to have a college degree, take college courses every 5 years, a state license and follow a union contract. If the state and federal departments of education make all those requirements then we should get paid for it.

I'm against merit pay, but again, you are off base. You set the "base pay" off of said degrees (you no longer have to have a Masters) and you give raises based on merit. Built in "pay raises" would be structured in with each "advanced degree," etc. The hardest part is figuring out HOW to judge the merit, and the amount of each raise. Will be tough in a union atmosphere.
Aug 18, 2011 2:54pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:56 PM
wkfan;866628 wrote:I would like to see some proof of that. The medical plans that I am familiar with do charge differently if you are single or have more dependents (family plan), but I thik that few, if any, still charge nothing for medical care.

I'd give you solid proof from my district, but this past year was a contract year, and single recipients went from 0% to 10%. Single recipients paid 0% for years. There are a TON of admins out there, especially supers, who don't (or didn't) pay a dime for healthcare, since their contracts are individually negotiated.
Aug 18, 2011 2:56pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Aug 18, 2011 2:56 PM
ccrunner609;866629 wrote:And teachers are evaluated, I have a administrator in my room at least 2-3 times a year doing this. What makes a poor teacher? Whether or not some 12 year old kid likes you? Or whether or not some kid that was up all night cause his parents were fighting has enough mental concentration to get a good grade that day?

The problem with your argument is that is makes the assumption that your situation is unique. It is not.
Aug 18, 2011 2:56pm
derek bomar's avatar

derek bomar

Senior Member

3,722 posts
Aug 18, 2011 3:03 PM
fuck teachers. there I said it. lazy sumbitches.
Aug 18, 2011 3:03pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Aug 18, 2011 3:04 PM
ccrunner609;866629 wrote:And teachers are evaluated, I have a administrator in my room at least 2-3 times a year doing this. What makes a poor teacher? Whether or not some 12 year old kid likes you? Or whether or not some kid that was up all night cause his parents were fighting has enough mental concentration to get a good grade that day?
An administrator should easily be able to evaluate what teachers are putting forth the effort to actually teach students and which ones aren't. In high school, I had a History teacher that lectured 3 or 4 days a week and was very passionate and informative on the subjects. I had a Biology teacher that put notes on an overhead projector every single day, then you had a test after 2 weeks of note taking, there was no lecture, learning activity, or anything like that. Now which of those 2 do you think performed better as a teacher??
Aug 18, 2011 3:04pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Aug 18, 2011 3:05 PM
se-alum;866639 wrote:An administrator should easily be able to evaluate what teachers are putting forth the effort to actually teach students and which ones aren't. In high school, I had a History teacher that lectured 3 or 4 days a week and was very passionate and informative on the subjects. I had a Biology teacher that put notes on an overhead projector every single day, then you had a test after 2 weeks of note taking, there was no lecture, learning activity, or anything like that. Now which of those 2 do you think performed better as a teacher??

Overhead guy, obviously.
Aug 18, 2011 3:05pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Aug 18, 2011 3:06 PM
queencitybuckeye;866633 wrote:The problem with your argument is that is makes the assumption that your situation is unique. It is not.
What he is aluding to (and I can't believe I'm backing up this doooosh) is that many of the 'quantifiable' things that are being talked about to evaluate a teacher are way out of their sphere of influence. Things like 'student achievement' (test scores, AYP,e tc) when all studies point to parental involvement as the real harbinger of student success in these areas.....parent and/or student 'evaluations' that can be nothing more than 'did the teacher give me a good grade ont he day the survey was done' or 'did the teacher discipline my child on the day the parent survey was done'.

I'm all for evaluating teachers fairly, paying them based on a fair evaluation and seperating failing teachers form the profession based upon a fair evaluation. These factors, and many others that have been discussed, are no where near fair.
Aug 18, 2011 3:06pm
GoChiefs's avatar

GoChiefs

Resident Maniac

16,754 posts
Aug 18, 2011 3:09 PM
ccrunner609;866621 wrote:We are required to have a college degree, take college courses every 5 years, a state license and follow a union contract. If the state and federal departments of education make all those requirements then we should get paid for it.
Bullshit. You knew all that was required when you went into the field. If you don't want to take those required courses and pay for them, then choose another profession.
Aug 18, 2011 3:09pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Aug 18, 2011 3:11 PM
wkfan;866642 wrote:What he is aluding to (and I can't believe I'm backing up this doooosh) is that many of the 'quantifiable' things that are being talked about to evaluate a teacher are way out of their sphere of influence. Things like 'student achievement' (test scores, AYP,e tc) when all studies point to parental involvement as the real harbinger of student success in these areas.....parent and/or student 'evaluations' that can be nothing more than 'did the teacher give me a good grade ont he day the survey was done' or 'did the teacher discipline my child on the day the parent survey was done'.

I'm all for evaluating teachers fairly, paying them based on a fair evaluation and seperating failing teachers form the profession based upon a fair evaluation. These factors, and many others that have been discussed, are no where near fair.
I'm all for fairness, but if that definition is to include not being judged on anything not totally within one's sphere of influence, every job and industry in which I've worked would have to cease evaluating employees immediately.
Aug 18, 2011 3:11pm
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Aug 18, 2011 3:12 PM
sleeper;866578 wrote:I blame the baby boomers.

I blame gay african american gingers of muslim faith
Aug 18, 2011 3:12pm