Sykotyk;792883 wrote:If you don't vacate the wins, you're basically saying it's okay to cheat and get caught after you won a couple NCs, because, who cares if you have to pay the piper later on. At least you get to still be known as champions, etc.

Losing the one thing they cheated to achieve is the only way to attempt to stop anybody from cheating. If you stole something from the store, even though you're arrested and punished, you don't still get to keep the ill gotten goods.

Y-Town Steelhound;792884 wrote:
None of the players on the team now care about the 04 title getting stripped, none of the players on the 04 team care that the NCAA vacated it. Like Leinart said, they know they won it on the field. They still have their rings. Everyone knows they were the best team in the country that year.

Manhattan Buckeye;792854 wrote:Naivety. You don't think when players visit the campus they aren't told by current players what bennies they get? Of course they do. Reggie Bush was a professional, they cheated and they are paying for it now. Their 2004 championship can sit in the cockles of the hearts of their supporters, the fact is they cheated and its gone. Congrats on being a cheater. I don't give a fuck what they did on the field, they are cheaters.

Y-Town Steelhound;792884 wrote:My point is this: When it came to appeals, USC didn't appeal the vacating of their wins and title...they were appealing their loss of scholarships and bowl bans. Those are FAR MORE damaging to a program than vacating wins because frankly you can't vacate memories and experiences. Yea it needs to be done and symbolically it's all swell but the scholarship loss/bowl ban does far more to curb future violations than vacating wins. Just seems pointless 7 years after the fact. USC still recognizes it as a championship season, they don't give back the money they got for playing in the Orange Bowl. It just doesn't have much of a point is what I'm saying.

None of the players on the team now care about the 04 title getting stripped, none of the players on the 04 team care that the NCAA vacated it. Like Leinart said, they know they won it on the field. They still have their rings. Everyone knows they were the best team in the country that year.

Hamp89;792896 wrote:Don't let Leinart's comments fool you. I guarantee these guys care about losing the title. What else would you expect him to say? I'm sure the news is hurting most of that team. That team will always be looked at as tarnished and will never get the same respect as other teams who have done it the right way. Its just the way it is. They'll have to defend that title the rest of their lives anytime it comes up.

enigmaax;792972 wrote: .... but they know they won it on the field and as competitors that is really all that matters to them.

jhay78;792754 wrote: 2003 USC would've wiped the floor with LSU if they hadn't been hosed by the worst final BCS rankings ever. SC's 1 vacated title > LSU's fraudulent title in '03 + a 2-loss title in '07.

cats gone wild;792798 wrote:Wow, seriously? This could go down as the dumbest post in ohiochatter history.

enigmaax;792972 wrote:Same respect from who? A bunch of dolts on message boards? Your last line is correct, but it is still a different take than "hurting". Just saw Mike Schmidt talking about it on Mike & Mike and he said basically the same thing. To him, it was pretty simple - players don't care at all about vacating the wins or the title. They'll be annoyed about having to answer questions about it, but they know they won it on the field and as competitors that is really all that matters to them.

Sykotyk;793127 wrote:Then they'd be idiots because it wasn't a fair fight. Let every other school enjoy the same advantages USC garnered and see how things play out. It's like being proud you beat a toddler. Yeah, nobody is disputing you beat them, but that's not the point.

Aside from the actual sanctions that the NCAA has placed on USC in the Reggie Bush case, the lingering problem is the misperception that still exists in the media and among college football fans in general.

One of reasons for this misperception is that many sportswriters and media analysts simply do not or will not read anything longer than a blog note. Some writers read about as many newspapers as Sarah Palin. So, it would be rather absurd to have expected them to pore over the voluminous material in the NCAA’s allegations against USC and the university’s subsequent appeal.

Since USC and public relations people have been rather negligent in explaining the infractions in simple layman’s terms, many misconceptions pervade even today.

So, for those who are still laboring under those misconceptions, here is the Cliffs Notes version.

USC did not pay Reggie Bush to play football.
USC did not give Bush’s family a home in exchange for their son playing football for the Trojans.
USC did not buy Reggie Bush a car or give him money to purchase a car.
No USC booster or patron ever gave Bush or his family any money or other financial benefits.
Lloyd Lake, the person who provided a home for the Bush’s and a used car for Reggie Bush, was not a booster or even a fan of USC.
Lloyd Lake was an ex-convict who had delusions of becoming a sports agent. When he left prison, he realized that a friend of his, Reggie Bush’s stepfather, LaMar Griffin, had a stepson, Reggie Bush, who was gaining fame playing college football.
Lake provided Griffin a home as well as other benefits in return for his stepson, Reggie Bush, signing with Lake’s fledgling sports agency when he decided to play in the NFL.
Here are the actual NCAA allegations against USC:

USC’s Compliance Department failed to check the incomplete registration form for Reggie Bush’s vehicle.
USC’s Compliance Department and former head football coach, Pete Carroll, failed to check the living arrangements for Bush’s family in San Diego, some 130 miles from the Los Angeles campus.
Former head coach Pete Carroll ran open practices, where the NCAA believed that sports agents and their staffers could have come in contact with the players although no such contacts were ever uncovered.
Former Athletic Director Mike Garrett failed to increase an undermanned Compliance Department that had only two employees.
The Athletic Department failed to properly investigate the alleged violations or cooperate fully with the NCAA’s investigators.
An assistant football coach, Todd McNair, was accused by Lloyd Lake of having known about Lake’s arrangements with the Bush family.
Todd McNair denied the accusation but the NCAA preferred to take the word of Lloyd Lake, an ex-convict.
The above violations were lumped together with the O.J. Mayo recruitment violation, which USC self-sanctioned, and the case of a woman’s tennis player who used an athletics department long-distance access code to make 123 unauthorized international telephone calls to family members.
By lumping all three cases together, the NCAA was able to hit USC with a Lack of Institutional Control (LOIC) violation.
Basically, that is the long and short of it. So, for those of you who may have been laboring under some misconceptions about what exactly USC did or did not do, I hope this clears that up.

sportswizuhrd;793162 wrote:Cliff notes version of the USC and Bush infractions. And before anyone says anything about the writer being a USC featured columnist, read the whole case and write your own version if you think there are bias about it or don't like it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/718845-usc-and-the-reggie-bush-infractions-the-cliffs-notes-version



Here is the originial document. 64 pages long.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/d28c898042cdd2bc958fd5a6e282e000/20100610+USC+Public+Report.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=d28c898042cdd2bc958fd5a6e282e000

Sykotyk;793127 wrote:Then they'd be idiots because it wasn't a fair fight. Let every other school enjoy the same advantages USC garnered and see how things play out. It's like being proud you beat a toddler. Yeah, nobody is disputing you beat them, but that's not the point.

dat dude;795035 wrote:As others have said, vacating wins is meaningless. I'd much rather win a national championship and have it vacated years later than lose a national championship game.