Thread Bomber;750895 wrote:Actually, I'm on pretty good behavior on this one. I usually roll down a much different path

haha! True

2kool4skool;751185 wrote:Question for all the believers here, and I'm genuinely curious, not being condescending.

Why are you confident that you've "chosen" the right religion/denomination? I assume 90% of people simply follow the religion that their parents introduced them to, do you believe that you were simply one of the people that god chose to "win the lottery," by being introduced to what was the "correct" answer. How does he expect those born into a Muslim/Hindu/whatever family to find the right path?

Because, going back to the original question, if we assume all religions/denominations have an equal chance of being the "correct" answer, then Atheists have just about as good a chance at getting into heaven as anyone else, which is slim to none.

I've often wondered this myself. People are so quick to bad mouth another religion. But how do they know the other religion isn't the right one?

Bigred1995;751097 wrote:Technically, isn't that what the God Abraham initially created? By forbidding Adam & Eve from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, weren't they essentially robots; and without this knowledge how could they know what they were doing was wrong?

But they did both choose to partake of the "tree" and were afraid and realized they were naked! All from an apple? No, their act was something else and as a result the serpent went from a beast of the field to crawling on his belly and Adam and Eve suddenly shy of their nakedness hid from God and were sent forth from the garden. So what did Eve and the serpent and then Adam do in the garden to produce those results?

WebFire;751341 wrote:I've often wondered this myself. People are so quick to bad mouth another religion. But how do they know the other religion isn't the right one?

GRACE, it is that simple as God allowed us to choose and those that hear and believe, his prophets have spoken through the years but not all have believed them and a true believer has heard and just knows those that are false believers. It is not for everyone but to those whom God has preordained to believe just as there are those who were before of old ordained to condemnation ( Jude 4)

riders1;751344 wrote:But they did both choose to partake of the "tree" and were afraid and realized they were naked! All from an apple? No, their act was something else and as a result the serpent went from a beast of the field to crawling on his belly and Adam and Eve suddenly shy of their nakedness hid from God and were sent forth from the garden. So what did Eve and the serpent and then Adam do in the garden to produce those results?

First of all, if it's going to be any kind of fruit, it's most likely going to be a fig! Now, I never denied that they chose to "partake of the tree"; what I'm asking is how can you blame them for what they did, because the God of the bible created them ignorant and before they they ate from the tree, knew nothing!

They could have chosen the "tree of life" but allowed the serpent to beguile and thus it wasn't a real fruit but a sexual experience that led to the fall. That is what let them suddenly realize they were naked.

riders1;751363 wrote:They could have chosen the "tree of life" but allowed the serpent to beguile and thus it wasn't a real fruit but a sexual experience that led to the fall. That is what let them suddenly realize they were naked.

Wait...What? Are you telling me that Eve got "Jiggy wit" the serpent? Please oh please post a link to this AWESOME interpretation of Genesis!!!

And from what I know of the story, they could not have chosen the "tree of life" because it was forbidden for them to do so as well as the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So they were essnitally drones walking around, until the friendly "snake" came along!

God only forbid eating from the one "tree". The serpents curse was to crawl upon his belly when before he was more sublte than any beast of the field, so he was not a snake when he beguiled Eve. 1 John 3:12 even says "not as Cain who was of that wicked one", you surely don't think Adam and Eve were the "wicked one" in Genesis.

riders1;751377 wrote:God only forbid eating from the one "tree". The serpents curse was to crawl upon his belly when before he was more sublte than any beast of the field, so he was not a snake when he beguiled Eve. 1 John 3:12 even says "not as Cain who was of that wicked one", you surely don't think Adam and Eve were the "wicked one" in Genesis.

That one "tree" was the tree of Knowledge of good & evil, so how does eating from the tree of life give them any sort of knowledge. My question still stands, if they had no knowledge of good & evil, how did they know what they were doing was wrong?

So, from 5 words, you're telling me that Genesis not only had a talking serpent, but there was some bestiality going on? Please explain to me how an offspring can be created between two different species? You're telling me god allowed such things then, but because of this put an end to it?

I Wear Pants;750816 wrote:1. That's not true at all. It's not like everyone that doesn't believe in the Bible actively rejects God/the Bible. They just don't think it's true. It's like if you tried to convince me Santa Claus is real at this point in my life. I wouldn't believe it but it's not because I reject the idea of it being true it's just that from the information I have I conclude that it's more than likely not true.

If someone tells you something is true, and even if you thought it was a good thing/idea you didn't believe them that it was true, that, by definition, is rejecting what they had to say. It is rejecting the "truth".

Christopher Columbus was told the Earth was flat, maybe he tought the Earth being flat was a "good idea", but he rejected the truth of it and sailed across the Atlantic. That's text book definition of rejecting something as true.

Bigred1995;751097 wrote:Technically, isn't that what the God Abraham initially created? By forbidding Adam & Eve from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, weren't they essentially robots; and without this knowledge how could they know what they were doing was wrong?

He told them what was wrong (eating of the tree) and they chose with their God given free will not to listen. That's not a robot, unless its Skynet AI type and started making its own decisions .

riders1;751363 wrote:They could have chosen the "tree of life" but allowed the serpent to beguile and thus it wasn't a real fruit but a sexual experience that led to the fall. That is what let them suddenly realize they were naked.

Wait, what? This is all news to me and I have studied the first few chapters of Genesis in and out for over a decade.

riders1;751377 wrote:God only forbid eating from the one "tree". The serpents curse was to crawl upon his belly when before he was more sublte than any beast of the field, so he was not a snake when he beguiled Eve. 1 John 3:12 even says "not as Cain who was of that wicked one", you surely don't think Adam and Eve were the "wicked one" in Genesis.

Oh my, you can't be seriously twisting the Bible that much to believe that Cain was Eve and Satan's offspring? Come on...

I thought the Bible was meant to be twisted...ummm...I mean....interpreted?

jmog;751421 wrote:He told them what was wrong (eating of the tree) and they chose with their God given free will not to listen. That's not a robot, unless its Skynet AI type and started making its own decisions .

I agree that they were told not to eat from and they used their "free will" to do so anyway, but how did they know what they were doing was wrong? Until they ate of the tree they didn't know what was wrong. I know I'm staring to delve into territory I'm not completely familiar with (philosophical), but without this knowledge can they be entirely responsible for their actions? What experiences did they have to tell them disobeying god was wrong?

Bigred1995;751443 wrote:I agree that they were told not to eat from and they used their "free will" to do so anyway, but how did they know what they were doing was wrong? Until they ate of the tree they didn't know what was wrong. I know I'm staring to delve into territory I'm not completely familiar with (philosophical), but without this knowledge can they be entirely responsible for their actions? What experiences did they have to tell them disobeying god was wrong?

Not only did God, the being that created them, tell them it was wrong, but he also told them there would be consequences (they would die...ended up not being right away but it happened eventually).

So just like a child being told by their parents not to do something and they are given consequences if they do, they might not understand WHY its wrong, but they definitely KNOW that it is wrong.

*************** Disclaimer from the Thread Bomber*******************
I will now post something that will surprise some of you, and shock the rest of you. You may accept what I have to say, but hear me out before you summarily discount what I have to say.



***I believe in God***



Probably not in a way that you are comfortable with, or accustomed to, But God is real to me, and it is truly a core belief, not taken on faith, as some you would describe it.

There are many things beyond our comprehension, and God I would assume is at the top of most of our lists. You can explain things mathematically with physics, But the fact remains : It all had to start somewhere.

We as a species truly have no comprehension of time or space. Many of us would discount the notion that there are other, far more advanced beings in this incredibly huge universe that are far far more advanced that we could comprehend. If the universe is truly still expanding, why would it be such an absurd notion that a few, more millions of evolution's have occurred. That thousands of planets have evolved and have met their demise hundreds of million of years ago.

As far as my core beliefs, I tend to grasp things as real if I actually observe them. Some may call it Karma, others may say that it is good luck, But I would say that there is such a thing as positive force. It has demonstrated itself to me countless times. I am a true believer that if you do and think good things that good things will happen to you.

I am not willing in my belief to put a gender on a bodily form, but there is no one or nothing that I could imagine that would stop me from believing that we are all products of a "force" beyond our comprehension that is responsible for us as sentient beings.

I discount much of what the Bible says as I believe that a lot of things written are fables embellished by man in order for them to explain their beliefs that they themselves or no one else can explain.

That being said, I still wrestle with Jesus being my savior and promising eternal life for obedience, as much as I fight my views on Hell ( as I see it as a threat to punish me for eternity)

As a core belief, I find myself more closely aligned with Christianity,. Not because of the salvation thing, but as a way of life, It sure as hell can't be a bad thing to live as a Christian.

When I say absurd and baited things on this message board, I will admit that I do it mostly for my own entertainment seeing peoples insecurities about their own beliefs. I know that it's sick, But I would hope that it would make some of you re-examine their own beliefs to make sure that they are their own.

That being said, I am not sure that there is a heaven or a hell, But one can hope. If I am wrong, I would hope that "God" is merciful

jmog;751419 wrote:If someone tells you something is true, and even if you thought it was a good thing/idea you didn't believe them that it was true, that, by definition, is rejecting what they had to say. It is rejecting the "truth".

Christopher Columbus was told the Earth was flat, maybe he tought the Earth being flat was a "good idea", but he rejected the truth of it and sailed across the Atlantic. That's text book definition of rejecting something as true.

You act like anyone who isn't a Christian or doesn't believe in God is saying "no, fuck God" when that's not the case at all.

SMH @ this thread ...

jmog;751426 wrote:Wait, what? This is all news to me and I have studied the first few chapters of Genesis in and out for over a decade.

I am probably not the MOST knowledgeable person here on the Hebrew language (OSH seems to know it better), but I know enough to know that that isn't what the text says at all.

i can say this, I agree with thread bomber, that it all had to start somewhere. If you want to call that God, then go for it. Beyond that, I have little do with religion as I do no believe that a truly omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good god would reject anyone from "its" afterlife.

as for the question at hand: if their is a heaven, and its controlled by a truly omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good God, then yes. Atheists do go to heaven.

for the thousands of religions that people actively worship their version of the answer would all depend on the doctrine of that church. Whether or not that church has the correct answer is another argument.

Welcome to the dark side

tcarrier32;752061 wrote:i can say this, I agree with thread bomber, that it all had to start somewhere. If you want to call that God, then go for it. Beyond that, I have little do with religion as I do no believe that a truly omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good god would reject anyone from "its" afterlife.

as for the question at hand: if their is a heaven, and its controlled by a truly omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good God, then yes. Atheists do go to heaven.

for the thousands of religions that people actively worship their version of the answer would all depend on the doctrine of that church. Whether or not that church has the correct answer is another argument.

Matthew 7: 13,14 says different. “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. “


Very few people are going to make it. It’s the unfortunate reality and hard to accept but it’s our thinking that needs to conform to the Bible, not the other way around. Our view of the world has changed that has led to the thinking of multiple paths to God and a distortion of what authentic Christianity is.
It’s not popular to think that a good person could go to Hell. Our culture is about being inclusive and accepting of everything and every one and those beliefs and ideas are getting stronger every day. Those ideas are changing. Scripture is not.
And anyone, absolutely any single person can choose Christ. No one is being kept out but by their own beliefs and ideas. It’s not exclusive in the sense that only a certain group of people can ever be saved. It’s open to anyone to receive it, but it means walking away from worldly thinking and worldly ideas.

I Wear Pants;751954 wrote:You act like anyone who isn't a Christian or doesn't believe in God is saying "no, fuck God" when that's not the case at all.

No, I am not saying that, I am saying that they are rejecting the existance of God or the truth of the Bible, that's all I have said. I have not said thaty they would hate God if he did exist.

Thread Bomber;751514 wrote: I will now post something that will surprise some of you, and shock the rest of you. You may accept what I have to say, but hear me out before you summarily discount what I have to say.



***I believe in God***



Probably not in a way that you are comfortable with, or accustomed to, But God is real to me, and it is truly a core belief, not taken on faith, as some you would describe it.

There are many things beyond our comprehension, and God I would assume is at the top of most of our lists. You can explain things mathematically with physics, But the fact remains : It all had to start somewhere.

We as a species truly have no comprehension of time or space. Many of us would discount the notion that there are other, far more advanced beings in this incredibly huge universe that are far far more advanced that we could comprehend. If the universe is truly still expanding, why would it be such an absurd notion that a few, more millions of evolution's have occurred. That thousands of planets have evolved and have met their demise hundreds of million of years ago.

As far as my core beliefs, I tend to grasp things as real if I actually observe them. Some may call it Karma, others may say that it is good luck, But I would say that there is such a thing as positive force. It has demonstrated itself to me countless times. I am a true believer that if you do and think good things that good things will happen to you.

I am not willing in my belief to put a gender on a bodily form, but there is no one or nothing that I could imagine that would stop me from believing that we are all products of a "force" beyond our comprehension that is responsible for us as sentient beings.

I discount much of what the Bible says as I believe that a lot of things written are fables embellished by man in order for them to explain their beliefs that they themselves or no one else can explain.

That being said, I still wrestle with Jesus being my savior and promising eternal life for obedience, as much as I fight my views on Hell ( as I see it as a threat to punish me for eternity)

As a core belief, I find myself more closely aligned with Christianity,. Not because of the salvation thing, but as a way of life, It sure as hell can't be a bad thing to live as a Christian.

When I say absurd and baited things on this message board, I will admit that I do it mostly for my own entertainment seeing peoples insecurities about their own beliefs. I know that it's sick, But I would hope that it would make some of you re-examine their own beliefs to make sure that they are their own.

That being said, I am not sure that there is a heaven or a hell, But one can hope. If I am wrong, I would hope that "God" is merciful

That's more where I'm at.

The concept there's a higher power that at least had a hand in the creation of everything seems logical.

The concept that it is all explained by one particular religious text (out of many throughout the centuries) seems far-fetched and oftentimes laughable -- something which I could spend thousands of words discussing. Throughout time, a lot of religious "powers that be" have tended to use their "faith" more as a method of control than anything else. And the actual text could be seen as a combination of a listing of the laws of the time, fables/parables to aid in teaching the right path and a biased history (kings that side with god are prosperous, those who blaspheme see things fall into ruin).