jmog;750619 wrote:He did make it a perfect and happy place, humans screwed it up.

You missed the point. I wouldn't have made my world where humans could screw it up. What was the point?

"But if you take it like a good little abused spouse ("god beats me because he loves me")...hey, you'll be rewarded in the afterlife!"


Maybe you should re read the first 2 Chapters of Job, It wasn't God who inflicted Job with problems it was Satan.



"Wait a minute...what kind of dick would order someone to kill their kid as a sign of loyalty?!"


The same God that sent his own son to die for you ,me and everyone.


"And then, after being a tireless servant of god for forever, got condemned to not reach the promised land because he lost his temper in a moment of frustration. Firing loyal, long-time employees to show everyone that no one's position is safe = great PR move!"


God didn't let Moses see the promised land because he lost his temper, Moses directly dis -obeyed a command from God.

jmog;750628 wrote:So, if you have AIDS and I have developed the cure. I hand you the cure for free but you push me away and reject my cure for whatever reason and you end up dying. How would I be the "dick"?

That is a perfect metaphor for what God did. If you believe the Bible we are all headed to hell anyway and he provided a way out to save us. He isn't the "dick" if we reject him, we are.

No a perfect metaphor would be God gave you AIDS.

WebFire;750651 wrote:You missed the point. I wouldn't have made my world where humans could screw it up.

VOTE: Webfire for God!!!!!!

I want chickens with 4 wings and a pot plant in every pot!

I wonder if I am the first benevolent lobbyist?

WebFire;750651 wrote:You missed the point. I wouldn't have made my world where humans could screw it up. What was the point?

So you would have created robots who are forced to serve you because that's how they are programmed by you?

I Wear Pants;750688 wrote:No a perfect metaphor would be God gave you AIDS.

No, God did not force us to sin, we chose to sin. Your version of God giving us AIDS only fits if God forces us to sin, which is not the case.

Is that anyless stupid than making robots that can disobey you so you can torture them?

jmog;750737 wrote:No, God did not force us to sin, we chose to sin. Your version of God giving us AIDS only fits if God forces us to sin, which is not the case.

God created sin.

I Wear Pants;750739 wrote:God created sin.

No, actually, he didn't. God, if you believe the Bible, is 100% holy and is incapable of creating something like sin that is the exact opposite of his "being".

Depending on what you believe came first, it was either Lucifer's free will or humans' free will that created sin. They used their God given free will to go against God.

Yes, because knowledge is a bad thing. That's why they hide it in books.....

jmog;750757 wrote:No, actually, he didn't. God, if you believe the Bible, is 100% holy and is incapable of creating something like sin that is the exact opposite of his "being".

Depending on what you believe came first, it was either Lucifer's free will or humans' free will that created sin. They used their God given free will to go against God.

Would you agree that someone doesn't have to be evil, bad, stupid, blind, ignorant, etc to not believe in the Bible or God?

jmog;750735 wrote:So you would have created robots who are forced to serve you because that's how they are programmed by you?

Uh, ya. Why would you purposely build a being with the ability to go against you, when your wish is for them to follow you?

Thread Bomber;750723 wrote:VOTE: Webfire for God!!!!!!

I want chickens with 4 wings and a pot plant in every pot!

I'm skipping the chickens and pot plants all together. I'll just create an endless supply of ready-made hot wings and joints.

I Wear Pants;750771 wrote:Would you agree that someone doesn't have to be evil, bad, stupid, blind, ignorant, etc to not believe in the Bible or God?

Actually I think one of those descriptions or maybe even something else fits. You have to realize that the definition of ignorant is not as we typically use it. It is un-informed, so yes, if someone doesn't happen to believe in the Bible they either have completely understood it and rejected it (falls into the bad, evil, rebellious category) or they have never heard/understood and fall into the ignorant/blind category.

WebFire;750779 wrote:Uh, ya. Why would you purposely build a being with the ability to go against you, when your wish is for them to follow you?

Its more fulfilling to have someone love you because they want to love you instead of because they have no choice.

Look at arranged/forced marriage vs a modern typical marriage. Its more fulfilling for someone to fall in love with you than to be forced to marry you.

Or they feel that it isn't true. One can both completely understand the Bible and believe that it isn't true without rejecting the ideas within. It's entirely possible to think that it'd be great if what is in the Bible were true but truly believe it not to be.

You can not believe in God without "rejecting" God.

That's ignoring the obvious scenario of say some remote African villigers or something that haven't ever even heard of Christianity. How is it just for them to be eternally damned when they had not even the possibility of being Christian?

jmog;750792 wrote:Its more fulfilling to have someone love you because they want to love you instead of because they have no choice.

Look at arranged/forced marriage vs a modern typical marriage. Its more fulfilling for someone to fall in love with you than to be forced to marry you.

The idea that God created the world as it is because he desperately wanted someone to love him doesn't really jive with me.

I Wear Pants;750794 wrote:Or they feel that it isn't true. One can both completely understand the Bible and believe that it isn't true without rejecting the ideas within. It's entirely possible to think that it'd be great if what is in the Bible were true but truly believe it not to be.

You can not believe in God without "rejecting" God.

That's ignoring the obvious scenario of say some remote African villigers or something that haven't ever even heard of Christianity. How is it just for them to be eternally damned when they had not even the possibility of being Christian?

1. Actually by definition not believing it to be true is rejecting it.
2. I've covered the "remote African villager" aspect before on this site. Many Christians believe they would be under the same "judgement" as those during the OT times before Jesus in that they would be "weighed" by their actions/moral character. I honestly can not say for sure, and neither can any Christian, how that scenario plays out.

You know... this thread started off very good and interesting. Lots of good reading in the beginning.
But just like all other threads about anything pertaining to this subject it has degenerated into people posting the most petulant, belligerent and anger-harvesting posts.
SMH

jmog;750800 wrote:1. Actually by definition not believing it to be true is rejecting it.
2. I've covered the "remote African villager" aspect before on this site. Many Christians believe they would be under the same "judgement" as those during the OT times before Jesus in that they would be "weighed" by their actions/moral character. I honestly can not say for sure, and neither can any Christian, how that scenario plays out.

1. That's not true at all. It's not like everyone that doesn't believe in the Bible actively rejects God/the Bible. They just don't think it's true. It's like if you tried to convince me Santa Claus is real at this point in my life. I wouldn't believe it but it's not because I reject the idea of it being true it's just that from the information I have I conclude that it's more than likely not true.

CenterBHSFan;750803 wrote:You know... this thread started off very good and interesting. Lots of good reading in the beginning.
But just like all other threads about anything pertaining to this subject it has degenerated into people posting the most petulant, belligerent and anger-harvesting posts.
SMH

Actually, I'm on pretty good behavior on this one. I usually roll down a much different path

jmog;750735 wrote:So you would have created robots who are forced to serve you because that's how they are programmed by you?

Technically, isn't that what the God Abraham initially created? By forbidding Adam & Eve from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, weren't they essentially robots; and without this knowledge how could they know what they were doing was wrong?

My apologies if this has already been covered as I haven't read the entire thread, but I have a legitimate question for the believers on here.

How are you supposed to know which religion/denomination to pick? I assume 99% of people simply pick the same one their parents introduced them to, how are you supposed to know that's right? What makes you confident you've "picked" the choice that will get you to heaven.

Secondly, the New Testament says that the only way to heaven is through belief in Christ if I remember correctly. Do you believe that people who lived, by almost anyone's standards, with good morals are in hell because they were of a different religion? Is Gandhi in hell suffering eternal torture basically?

I'm not really a member of any religious communities, so I'm genuinely interested in what the belief on these subjects is within the community.

Question for all the believers here, and I'm genuinely curious, not being condescending.

Why are you confident that you've "chosen" the right religion/denomination? I assume 90% of people simply follow the religion that their parents introduced them to, do you believe that you were simply one of the people that god chose to "win the lottery," by being introduced to what was the "correct" answer. How does he expect those born into a Muslim/Hindu/whatever family to find the right path?

Because, going back to the original question, if we assume all religions/denominations have an equal chance of being the "correct" answer, then Atheists have just about as good a chance at getting into heaven as anyone else, which is slim to none.