Skyhook79;766489 wrote:"Not to mention, where is the backlash for Paul Pierce and KG leaving the floor without shaking hands last night? Lebron did that and he was ripped apart."

Maybe they didn't because they are "winners"?

Bull**** excuse, the double standards around here are ridiculous. People pick and choose points for their arguments but don't want them use against them in a debate, SMH.

robj55;766526 wrote:+1000000, he had 2 points in the second half of game 4, he must have quit

Not only that, but he took 2 reasonable shots and made them both in the early portion of game 3's 4th quarter, then became a spectator until the last :30 when he started launching 3s. This wasn't a blowout loss either, the Lakers were leading by 6 entering the 4th and held the lead for a good part of the quarter. Very odd for the supposed best closer in the game.

karen lotz;766550 wrote:Not only that, but he took 2 reasonable shots and made them both in the early portion of game 3's 4th quarter, then became a spectator until the last :30 when he started launching 3s. This wasn't a blowout loss either, the Lakers were leading by 6 entering the 4th and held the lead for a good part of the quarter. Very odd for the supposed best closer in the game.

If Lebron did that he would be crucified on here

robj55;766540 wrote:"The Cavs were built as well as any team could be around LeBRon's talents", this is so unbelievably wrong

How so?

robj55;766526 wrote:+1000000, he had 2 points in the second half of game 4, he must have quit

Yeah, the difference is Kobe has 5 rings, and he didn't puss out and join 2 other superstars. You should take a closer look at your own views:

robj55;766548 wrote:People pick and choose points for their arguments but don't want them use against them in a debate, SMH.

You want to know why Bosh didn't approve the sign and trade? Its because him, Bosh, and Wade already knew they were playing with each other this year. This all happened in 2008. Nogs

bases_loaded;766564 wrote:You want to know why Bosh didn't approve the sign and trade? Its because him, Bosh, and Wade already knew they were playing with each other this year. This all happened in 2008. Nogs

Nig Nogs?

like_that;766560 wrote:Yeah, the difference is Kobe has 5 rings, and he didn't puss out and join 2 other superstars. You should take a closer look at your own views:

I'm not defending anyone, just saying that the double standards on here are ridiculous.

Kobe didnt join other superstars no, other superstars joined him. Nobody does it alone

He got 3 of those 5 rings with the most dominant post player in the history of the NBA.


Was shaq a ring chasing sell out too since he bolted for LA from a team he took to the finals and got swept?

robj55;766583 wrote:I'm not defending anyone, just saying that the double standards on here are ridiculous.

Yeah, congrats to contributing to them.

BR1986FB;766558 wrote:How so?

They had not one player on the roster who could take pressure off Lebron from time to time. They put a bunch of one dimensional shooters who are nothing more than role players around Lebron and expected him to turn them into champions, although he did lead a 15-20 win team to 65 wins almost every year. I mean seriously, Anthony Parker, Boobie Gibson, Delonte West, an old Antwan Jamison who did NOTHING in the playoffs. I knew when they didn't want to give up JJ Hickson for Amare Stoudamire that he was gone. No one player can win a title and they didn't do enough to put the right amount of talent around him. They put all players who were dependant on Lebron to make them 10 times better than what they were/are.

like_that;766587 wrote:Yeah, congrats to contributing to them.

You're welcome, all i'm saying is people are always subjective, hatred blinds us all and bias.

like_that;766560 wrote:Yeah, the difference is Kobe has 5 rings, and he didn't puss out and join 2 other superstars. You should take a closer look at your own views:

2 superstars? D-Wade is one. Where is this other one?

elbuckeye28;766599 wrote:2 superstars? D-Wade is one. Where is this other one?

robj55;766591 wrote:They had not one player on the roster who could take pressure off Lebron from time to time. They put a bunch of one dimensional shooters who are nothing more than role players around Lebron and expected him to turn them into champions, although he did lead a 15-20 win team to 65 wins almost every year. I mean seriously, Anthony Parker, Boobie Gibson, Delonte West, an old Antwan Jamison who did NOTHING in the playoffs. I knew when they didn't want to give up JJ Hickson for Amare Stoudamire that he was gone. No one player can win a title and they didn't do enough to put the right amount of talent around him. They put all players who were dependant on Lebron to make them 10 times better than what they were/are.

And WHO hand picked/pushed for selected said players?

When Ferry took over he had to clean up a MAJOR clusterfuck that Paxson created. They were in cap Hell until the year they went out and got Hughes, Damon Jones & Donyell Marshall. Hughes was the "chopped liver" choice after Ray Allen and Michael Redd, who Lebron snubbed, re-signed with their teams for max contracts. Fast forward to the "Ben Wallace blockbuster" deal. All of the players received in THAT deal were given Lebron's "seal of approval." After that, you had Shaq & Jamison, who Lebron REALLY wanted.

When you don't have many draft picks, you only have so much "flex" room and have to do it through trades, and your superstar won't commit, you get what you can take. The ONLY thing I'll agree with is Stoudemire because I wanted him over Jamison and thought Hickson was an expendable headcase.

BR1986FB;766604 wrote:And WHO hand picked/pushed for selected said players?

When Ferry took over he had to clean up a MAJOR clusterfuck that Paxson created. They were in cap Hell until the year they went out and got Hughes, Damon Jones & Donyell Marshall. Hughes was the "chopped liver" choice after Ray Allen and Michael Redd, who Lebron snubbed, re-signed with their teams for max contracts. Fast forward to the "Ben Wallace blockbuster" deal. All of the players received in THAT deal were given Lebron's "seal of approval." After that, you had Shaq & Jamison, who Lebron REALLY wanted.

When you don't have many draft picks, you only have so much "flex" room and have to do it through trades, and your superstar won't commit, you get what you can take. The ONLY thing I'll agree with is Stoudemire because I wanted him over Jamison and thought Hickson was an expendable headcase.

The problem is you are attributing every personnel mistake, whether not getting the right individual or getting the wrong one, on Lebron. Again your arguments have some validity, but you are reaching too far.

Commander of Awesome;766600 wrote:

Don't tell me you think Chris Bosh is a superstar.

elbuckeye28;766608 wrote:The problem is you are attributing every personnel mistake, whether not getting the right individual or getting the wrong one, on Lebron. Again your arguments have some validity, but you are reaching too far.

I agree that every player (Larry Hughes, who Lebron wanted) wasn't a fit but with his "status" and the fact the front office had to pamper him/walk on eggshells around him, he was at fault for a lot of the choices that were made.

BR1986FB;766604 wrote:
When Ferry took over he had to clean up a MAJOR clusterfuck that Paxson created.

Exactly. How quickly people forget that in that hideously moronic Jiri Welsch trade we essentially turned our 1st round pick that turned out to be Danny Granger into a 2nd round pick.

elbuckeye28;766610 wrote:Don't tell me you think Chris Bosh is a superstar.

No, I think he means Bosh is a girl.

http://twitter.com/#!/osu45804

lulz.

karen lotz;766625 wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/osu45804

lulz.

lmao. that brought out teh lulz

def brought teh lulz

karen lotz;766625 wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/osu45804

lulz.

"My reds suck right now lol"

They're like 6-2 in their last 8 games lol

It was true though. Look at how bad the Cavs were this year without Lebron.

Ugh....how many times are people going to keep using this statement? You must be new to the topic, so I would encourage you to refer back to post #1131 where I pick apart this argument.

robj55;766591 wrote:They had not one player on the roster who could take pressure off Lebron from time to time. They put a bunch of one dimensional shooters who are nothing more than role players around Lebron and expected him to turn them into champions, although he did lead a 15-20 win team to 65 wins almost every year. I mean seriously, Anthony Parker, Boobie Gibson, Delonte West, an old Antwan Jamison who did NOTHING in the playoffs. I knew when they didn't want to give up JJ Hickson for Amare Stoudamire that he was gone. No one player can win a title and they didn't do enough to put the right amount of talent around him. They put all players who were dependant on Lebron to make them 10 times better than what they were/are.

Judging by this post it doesn't seem that you completely understand basketball strategy so I'll bring you up to speed. With LeBron's skills as both a passer and a finisher at the rim the Cavs' offense built around him was predicated a lot on the drive and kick as well as pick and roll/pop. The idea is that if you surround LeBron with quality shooters, guys that could catch and dunk at the rim, and some good defenders that you would have a well oiled machine of a team with LeBron as the core of the offense. Guess what? IT WORKED. Well it did for a while at least...Really the problems for the Cavs were trying too hard to get LeBron help on offense while at the same time sacrificing the overall strategy of team defense that Mike Brown instilled so successfully (particularly in 2007 when the Cavs went to the finals. Looking at the roster, probably the worst on paper of any of LeBron's playoff teams. While LeBron was indeed very good in the season and playoffs that year, it was the exceptional defense they played that got them to the finals.) Bringing in guys like Mo Williams, Shaq, Jamison, etc. helped the offense but really crumbled the solid defensive system Mike Brown was able to implement. Stop with the JJ Hickson rumor, the Cavs were ready to pull the trigger on that deal and the Suns backed out last minute causing the Cavs to get Jamison instead. In retrospect it was probably a good move because Amare can't play defense either, and he and LeBron would've left in free agency regardless of the results of last season and the Cavs wouldn't even have JJ to use as part of their rebuilding project.

Parker? Solid veteran who is a great shoot and solid defender they brought in because they lacked length at the 2 which helped improve that position. Boobie Gibson? Oh you mean the guy that helped them get to the NBA finals in his rookie year before being a victim of the injury bug and constantly fluctuating minutes in the rotation? Delonte West? Dude just made himself a lot of money after that Heat series...really a guy I wish the Cavs could've kept this season. Old Jamison who did nothing in the playoffs? Well I'll say an "old" Jamison was still a very damn productive player but was a little out of his element in his "role" in Cleveland as a "stretch 4". Jamison can hit jumpers but it shouldn't have been his primary purpose on the floor. He's most effective in the post where he can use his unique dippity do shots to put the ball in the basket. Plus he's just a nice guy to have in the locker room. Unfortunately with Shaq's injury he was never able to get fully acclimated with the Cavs' starting lineup.

Also another funny thing is that you can easily use all the names you just mentioned to describe guys like Mike Miller, James Jones, Mike Bibby, Mario Chalmers, etc. These are also "one-dimensional" shooters that are "dependent" on LeBron. When I say that the Cavs surrounded LeBron with as good of a team that fit him as they could, I mean that they surrounded him with guys that specifically suited his strengths. Can you imagine a ball demanding guy like Russell Westbrook playing for the Cavs then? He would've driven LeBron batshit crazy. The Cavs simply got what were, in essence, the best available talent they could and were able to implement these pieces (except arguably Jamison but that was more on Mike Brown's inability to figure out a rotation) into teams that were title contenders and 60 game winners. The Cavs were simply great teams that had a few bad breaks in the playoffs.

The Cavs did have some talented offensive players around LeBron that they either couldn't keep (Carlos Boozer) or couldn't keep away from the injury bug (DaJuan Wagner, Larry Hughes). For LeBron's first few years, Z was still playing at a high level offensively even making 2 all star games. If anything they needed more help defensively than anything.