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lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:24 PM
Laley, they had him tabbed as POY. I'll take Sully at POY than FOY. IMO Craft and Sully's value to the team are very close if not level.
Mar 2, 2011 12:24pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:31 PM
lhslep134;697273 wrote:Laley, they had him tabbed as POY. I'll take Sully at POY than FOY. IMO Craft and Sully's value to the team are very close if not level.

Sullinger and Crafts value to the team are not that close, but I would argue that they are the most valuable and second most valuable. Sullinger is far and away the most valuable player on the team.

It is a little surprising to Lighty listed above Buford though.
Mar 2, 2011 12:31pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:31 PM
Sure Craft plays some good defense and doesnt turn the ball over much. But a national POY favorite is def worth more to a team than a scrappy point guard IMO
Mar 2, 2011 12:31pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:53 PM
Hb31187;697282 wrote:Sure Craft plays some good defense and doesnt turn the ball over much. But a national POY favorite is def worth more to a team than a scrappy point guard IMO

I think you're underrating the importance of an extremely gifted ball handling point guard.
Mar 2, 2011 12:53pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:57 PM
lhslep134;697313 wrote:I think you're underrating the importance of an extremely gifted ball handling point guard.

I think you are underrating a National POY candidate. People don't realize how important Sullinger is to OSU's offensive scheme, even when he's not scoring the ball.
Mar 2, 2011 12:57pm
OneBuckeye's avatar

OneBuckeye

Senior Member

5,888 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:57 PM
Buford on 3rd team is a joke. E Moore didn't start playing until halfway through the season.
Mar 2, 2011 12:57pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:59 PM
lhslep134;697313 wrote:I think you're underrating the importance of an extremely gifted ball handling point guard.

Theres like 6 or 7 other guards with Crafts ball handling skills at pg in the big 10. There is 1 other big with a skill set even close to Sullys in the big 10
Mar 2, 2011 12:59pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
Mar 2, 2011 1:02 PM
OneBuckeye;697319 wrote:Buford on 3rd team is a joke. E Moore didn't start playing until halfway through the season.

Moore started 30 games to Bufords 29. Averaged more Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals along with less turnovers(didnt average THAT much more than Buford at all in some of those however). Moore should easily be over Buford
Mar 2, 2011 1:02pm
C

centralbucksfan

Senior Member

5,111 posts
Mar 2, 2011 1:51 PM
I have no issue with Moore on 1st team. But Lucas, Morris and even Lighty on second team over Buford is a joke.
Mar 2, 2011 1:51pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Mar 2, 2011 1:54 PM
Hb31187;697322 wrote:Theres like 6 or 7 other guards with Crafts ball handling skills at pg in the big 10. There is 1 other big with a skill set even close to Sullys in the big 10

So you think they're 6 or 7 B10 PGs as good as Craft?
Mar 2, 2011 1:54pm
C

centralbucksfan

Senior Member

5,111 posts
Mar 2, 2011 1:57 PM
Hb31187;697282 wrote:Sure Craft plays some good defense and doesnt turn the ball over much. But a national POY favorite is def worth more to a team than a scrappy point guard IMO

Actually, he plays GREAT friggen defense!!
Mar 2, 2011 1:57pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Mar 2, 2011 1:58 PM
Willy B didn't really come on big 'till the second half, I think he's low too, but that might be an explanation.
Mar 2, 2011 1:58pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:02 PM
lhslep134;697379 wrote:So you think they're 6 or 7 B10 PGs as good as Craft?

Morris
Taylor
Lucas
Battle
McCamey
Thompson

Thought about Nolan, but he was injured all year
Mar 2, 2011 2:02pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:03 PM
lhslep134;697273 wrote:Laley, they had him tabbed as POY. I'll take Sully at POY than FOY. IMO Craft and Sully's value to the team are very close if not level.

Yeah I know. So a FR as POY cant be FOY in the conference? Makes no sense.

And having Sully and Craft at the same level is ridiculous.
Mar 2, 2011 2:03pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:04 PM
centralbucksfan;697385 wrote:Actually, he plays GREAT friggen defense!!

Okay? Still doesnt make him as valuable as a POY favorite
Mar 2, 2011 2:04pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:05 PM
Laley23;697393 wrote:Yeah I know. So a FR as POY cant be FOY in the conference? Makes no sense.

And having Sully and Craft at the same level is ridiculous.

Not sure if the Big 10 is like that, but I've heard of leagues all conference teams where if a freshman is on the 1st team, he's not eligible for freshman POY.
Mar 2, 2011 2:05pm
S

stlouiedipalma

Senior Member

1,797 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:07 PM
It doesn't matter to me who gets what "award". As long as the Buckeyes finish on top I'll be happy.
Mar 2, 2011 2:07pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:10 PM
Diebler got snubbed? Didn't he deserve at least something?
Mar 2, 2011 2:10pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:11 PM
Laley23;697393 wrote:Yeah I know. So a FR as POY cant be FOY in the conference? Makes no sense.

And having Sully and Craft at the same level is ridiculous.

Didn't say skill level was equal. Value to the team is close to level IMO. I don't think we're nearly as good if we don't have a PG, and certainly not a national championship contender without him. So if we're not a national championship contender without Craft, and we're not a national championship contender without Sully, how is my statement ridiculous?
Mar 2, 2011 2:11pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:15 PM
lhslep134;697408 wrote:Didn't say skill level was equal. Value to the team is close to level IMO. I don't think we're nearly as good if we don't have a PG, and certainly not a national championship contender without him. So if we're not a national championship contender without Craft, and we're not a national championship contender without Sully, how is my statement ridiculous?
Just because of the options a strong 5 gives you.
Mar 2, 2011 2:15pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:21 PM
Hb31187;697390 wrote:Morris
Taylor
Lucas
Battle
McCamey
Thompson

Thought about Nolan, but he was injured all year
lol @ Morris and Thompson. As a PG Craft is better than Battle(I don't think Battle is technically even the PG).
Mar 2, 2011 2:21pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:25 PM
ytownfootball;697415 wrote:Just because of the options a strong 5 gives you.

I understand that BUT:

OSU w/o Craft: No national championship chance
OSU w/o Sully: No national championship chance

So it would seem pretty apparent to me they have pretty similar value in the grand scheme of things even if not on a play-by-play or minute-to-minute basis.
Mar 2, 2011 2:25pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:27 PM
lhslep134;697408 wrote:Didn't say skill level was equal. Value to the team is close to level IMO. I don't think we're nearly as good if we don't have a PG, and certainly not a national championship contender without him. So if we're not a national championship contender without Craft, and we're not a national championship contender without Sully, how is my statement ridiculous?

Because the Buckeyes probably win the Big Ten without Craft, at least still top 3. Without Sully, not sure.

Not to mention, you can find plenty of PGs to fill in for Craft and be serviceable enough to still win a title with the Bucks. There are a handfull (if that) post players who can take Sullys spot and be as effective.

Sorry, but a POY candidate is not equaled by anyone on his team in terms of skill, value, whatever. Craft may be VERY valuable to the Buckeyes, but he is not as valuable as Sully. No way, no how.
Mar 2, 2011 2:27pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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29,506 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:28 PM
lhslep134;697433 wrote:I understand that BUT:

OSU w/o Craft: No national championship chance
OSU w/o Sully: No national championship chance

So it would seem pretty apparent to me they have pretty similar value in the grand scheme of things even if not on a play-by-play or minute-to-minute basis.

If thats the case everyone of the Buckeyes top 7 guys are equal lol. Without Buford or Diebler or Lighty this team has no shot either. I mean, thats a terrible way to look at it.

And back to the point of replacing the said players. Not possible with Sully, very possible with Craft.
Mar 2, 2011 2:28pm