This is a little old news, but congrats to West Holmes for taking the best elbows Hiland could muster and whoopin' them on the Hawks home floor. Coach P had the troops ready and said all the right things to her players to get the job done.

Just trying to stir up trouble again!

We expect to beat West Holmes every year, but it looks to be tough sledding here in the near future. It was a tough, hard fought game this year, and I think we have a good shot next year - if we can ever get our offense together.

If I were to put my ---hole hat on, I would say that a DII school should beat a DIV school every year, just based on the talent that should be derived from the enrollment bases (transfers aside). But I won't say that because it sounds like an excuse.

Noticed Coach P talked about Orrville's "physicalness" in the paint. Against Hiland she complained that Lindsy was getting the "daylights beat out of her." Better be careful. It sounds like whining.

its obvious Patterson absolutley hates Dave, his program, and the district to the east ............ not sure why they even schedule games against each other, nothing good comes from it...

It was obvious to me at the game this year that the game meant a whole lot to our west side friends. Some said they were beyond enthusiastic. Others said they were almost foaming at the mouth. Not saying it is all of it, but I think #3 is still casting a shadow over what should be a friendly rivalry. They have talked themselves into the idea that she was taken from them, apparently by Dave, and all the negative emotion they have toward her gets directed toward anyone who had anything to do with #3 over here, especially Dave. My kid had good friends at WH, who, to this day, will not talk to her because she was a teammate of #3. If that isn't hate, it's a pretty good imitiation. It doesn't seem to occur to some that the girl was miserable and she initiated the move and her parents facilitated it based solely on that. I draw no conclusions about who was the bad girl in the situation that motivated the transfer. Blame is something that usually can be assigned to some degree in all directions. You talk to WH folks, and to them, #3 was Satan's spawn and was pure trouble. However, they are STILL burned up that she left.

Which causes me to ask the question: If she was so bad and such a problem, why be upset that she left? I've been waiting over 2 years for an answer to that question, and have never gotten one.

Rivalries are great because of the passion, but our best ones have a little too much hate in them. When a basketball game is going on, it is the most important thing, and it's great to cheer for your team to win. Before the game, but especially once the game is over, we should all be friends, or at least friendly, because, after all, it is just hs kids playing a game.

Pariah;682904 wrote:It was obvious to me at the game this year that the game meant a whole lot to our west side friends. Some said they were beyond enthusiastic. Others said they were almost foaming at the mouth. Not saying it is all of it, but I think #3 is still casting a shadow over what should be a friendly rivalry. They have talked themselves into the idea that she was taken from them, apparently by Dave, and all the negative emotion they have toward her gets directed toward anyone who had anything to do with #3 over here, especially Dave. My kid had good friends at WH, who, to this day, will not talk to her because she was a teammate of #3. If that isn't hate, it's a pretty good imitiation. It doesn't seem to occur to some that the girl was miserable and she initiated the move and her parents facilitated it based solely on that. I draw no conclusions about who was the bad girl in the situation that motivated the transfer. Blame is something that usually can be assigned to some degree in all directions. You talk to WH folks, and to them, #3 was Satan's spawn and was pure trouble. However, they are STILL burned up that she left.

Which causes me to ask the question: If she was so bad and such a problem, why be upset that she left? I've been waiting over 2 years for an answer to that question, and have never gotten one.

Rivalries are great because of the passion, but our best ones have a little too much hate in them. When a basketball game is going on, it is the most important thing, and it's great to cheer for your team to win. Before the game, but especially once the game is over, we should all be friends, or at least friendly, because, after all, it is just hs kids playing a game.

This reminded me of how stupid high school drama was.

Not a fan of "Glee"?

We can even take it back much further Pariah. Back to before your days in HC. When WH was putting girls basketball on the map here and in Ohio, the west was kicking the ever loving bat snot out of the team from the east. This prompted the easteners to stop playing the cross county rivalry. For years this game was not played, which was puzzling to some (to others the reason was known ) Could it be sore losers?? After those years passed, Ora began building the program back up and soon the game was played again. Time passed and things returned to normal. The same shall happen with the current scenario.

I would counter that the team that eats, sleeps, and forces kids to focus on one sport would thoverhave the edge of a team who's players "spread their wealth" and participate in up to three sports in a school year.

300, you know I love ya and I appreciate the history lesson, but none of that gets to the question of where all this hate or resentment comes from. And there is a fine line between being historical and hysterical (not you, but others I've encountered). I actually lived here for 2 seasons when Lisa Cline was tearing up the state. Her and her teams' accomplishments would seem to be the thing to remember from that era.

My question stands, and I will continue to wait for an answer!

No one forces any girl to just play basketball. On this year's team about a third of the 15 play other sports. 2 of those are starters, so there is a gap between the assertion and the reality. But I will grant you that there are individual examples and instances where one could reasonably assume that priorities and principles are out of whack. No person or program is perfect.

Still, to hold that much hostility toward a girls hs basketball program seems a bit of a waste of time. I don't like how some WH adults and kids have treated my daughter, her teammates, and her coach. There are other people out there associated with that program who I don't particularly like as people. However, I'll be danged if I will let that color my life with negativity. I will continue to have the best wishes for those WH kids. Their successes do not detract from anything that is going on over here, and their failures do not add anything to what is going on over here.

I do not believe that the path to ultimate success involves resentment or hatred of anyone.

Listened to the Garaway/IV game last night. Tyler Stutzman did a nice job on KLM's broadcast, but I think there is another guy with a similar name that I would like to hear some time.

76-7. Really? Isnt that a bit much?

That score represents a considerable amount of restraint and good sportsmanship, but you would only know that if you were there.

But you aren't really interested in that are you?

I dont care how many times you passed before allowing them to shoot. There is NO need to be ahead 50-0 at halftime.

Pariah;683226 wrote:300, you know I love ya and I appreciate the history lesson, but none of that gets to the question of where all this hate or resentment comes from. And there is a fine line between being historical and hysterical (not you, but others I've encountered). I actually lived here for 2 seasons when Lisa Cline was tearing up the state. Her and her teams' accomplishments would seem to be the thing to remember from that era.

My question stands, and I will continue to wait for an answer!

No one forces any girl to just play basketball. On this year's team about a third of the 15 play other sports. 2 of those are starters, so there is a gap between the assertion and the reality. But I will grant you that there are individual examples and instances where one could reasonably assume that priorities and principles are out of whack. No person or program is perfect.

Still, to hold that much hostility toward a girls hs basketball program seems a bit of a waste of time. I don't like how some WH adults and kids have treated my daughter, her teammates, and her coach. There are other people out there associated with that program who I don't particularly like as people. However, I'll be danged if I will let that color my life with negativity. I will continue to have the best wishes for those WH kids. Their successes do not detract from anything that is going on over here, and their failures do not add anything to what is going on over here.

I do not believe that the path to ultimate success involves resentment or hatred of anyone.

I know you understand that there are two sides to every story. You also understand that some people/kids can have more than one persona. I have 1st hand info in regards to the former player and how she acted and treated her team members. No specifics will be given, but there were some serious issues behind the scenes. Factor in the whole residency thingy (don't forget, I'm momma's neighbor) which was a farce, and you have the makings for resentment. Of course there will be those to take it to the extremes, but betrayal and twisting the truth don't sit well with most people. Forgive and forget isn't easy when you've been burned. For some, sports is a great release on anger and payback. You ever talk to a Steubenville football fan??

Of course I know there are two sides. I've heard the other side, and I am definitely not saying there isn't any validity to whatever the charges are. I have no direct knowledge of anything that went on out there, so I can't draw any conclusions. My sense is from my limited interaction with the player, is that she would not deny that there were serious issues or that she contributed to those issues. What I am saying is that the sins, whatever they were, do not justify hatred of a student athlete (a child in a legal sense), and especially does not justify extending that bile out to people who had nothing to do with bringing her out of there to here. There is an irrational aspect to all of this that is demonstrated by the fact that no one can give me a logical answer to my question! Strong emotions, such as anger and hatred, are the wind that blows out the lamp of the mind. As to the residency question, the problem there is the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The letter of the law was adhered to. If it wasn't, about the time we made it to the regional or state, a complaint would have been filed (for all I know one was), an investigation would have ensued, and a player and her team would have been disqualified. Of course they didn't want to live in that little apartment. They wanted to be home and in that first year there is nothing that says they can't be there, say, on weekends or occasionally through the week. After 365 days of residency, as defined by the rule, not what any of us think it should be, then she was entitled to attend under open enrollment, so she lived in her home and commuted to school. Again, all of that is within the letter of the rules. But if the whole thing is disturbing to you, then you will see it as an end run around the rules and a violation of the spirit of them.

And finally, she's gone. Man, when she hit that three to tie LE in the regionals, I was so thankful we had her. She was fun to watch and I enjoyed her. But I was hoping that with her moving on, all this drama would dissipate. It should.

Oh yeah. The Big Reds. Those people are serious! After they get done fighting everyone else, they start fighting with each other!

9/63,

The score was not 50-0 at the half. That was a 3rd qtr score.

Next year drive to Claymont and watch the game. I'll buy the snacks. We'll likely play Toronto again. We'll be better, and I doubt they will. After watching what happens, then you will understand. That's all I can say.

But I will not get drawn into some inane discussion about what is excessive. That conversation has worn itself out. I will say again, and I don't think anyone from Hiland or Toronto who was there would disagree, the score represents a great deal of restraint and good sportsmanship. No restraint and bad sportsmanship would have resulted in a score somewhere around 130-0. Then, someone would have something to answer for. As it is, the question/criticism has no relation to reality.

In response to September63: the only way to avoid a (very) lopsided score in games like that, is to not play the game. (The hiland boys might have a similar lopsided score this weekend). Sitting your best 5 or even 10 the whole game does nothing to help you get ready for the rest of the tournament. The talent level is REALLY that unequal. Hiland is a bit down this year as compared to previous years, but that score STILL could have been much much worse.
As for the EH/WH "hatred". The oldtimers around (and that is way older than me even!) can verify it goes back way beyond Lisa Cline's time, essentially to the start of Hiland and West Holmes schools themselves--and even before that. Fuel has been tossed on to the fire (which sometimes goes down but never out) from both ends over the years. Kinda like the Hatfields and Mccoys..it's been going on so long nobody can remember what started it, only that it's essentially a tradition in and of itself. One's almost brought up from childhood with those (mis) conceptions, and they are deeply ingrained. It will take a lot of bridge bulding from both sides to lessen the tension IMO.

Does Shadyside have any chance of hanging with Hiland tonight?

better than a chance; Shadyside wins it by 4.
My only comment is: How can you NOT have Kenz taking that last shot? ( A little too reminiscent of the boys at state in (?) 07 when Gause doesn't take the last shot.)

"We didn't lose this game tonight, we lost it in June and July," Schlabach added. Cancel the Summer vacation.

Great quote! But as we are constantly told, "Don't believe what you read in the paper."

So the papers must have it wrong that Holmes county girls teams are all eliminated, ( Hawks and Knights both out on the same night ) but then I heard it on the radio also. Long run of district championships for the Hawks, I was looking forward to seeing them at Perry, but time to relax and watch other teams for awhile.

I wasn't trying to rub it in with the above quote. I'm a little chagrined with Coach Schlabach bad mouthing his kids. You can't win it every year ,even if you're Hiland. I've heard him in the paper say we aren't doing this and we aren't doing that and were not very good, we don't have anyone stepping up. It may be true, you can't be good every year, maybe this is the most you can get out of his talent level. No one wants to lose, but when you do, let it go. Bad mouthing kids who seem to be trying doesn't seem the way. Now I'm not from Holmes County, didn't see this team play and maybe this team underachieved, but it gets old hat to hear it in the papers.

I don't think you're the only one that feels that way flash..and I am from Holmes County.
Like Pariah said, I don't think everyone necessarily believes that quote.

Dave is a great man and coach. He's as much prone to error as anyone is, and I've seen him prove it on occasion! However, it's hard to question his tactics when he's developed a ton of players and won that many games and championships. This season he obviously felt it necessary to use some public pressure to motivate his team. Whether that was effective is hard to gauge. That quote about not working hard in the summer is interesting (and somewhat confusing) because at the pre-season meeting, along with admonition to not believe what you read in the paper, it was stated that this was the hardest working group they had coached for a while. Sometimes you just have to shrug your shoulders at the inability to reconcile those things, and say, "OK".

At the beginning of the year, I thought the ceilling for this team was 15-16 reg season wins, 1st or 2nd in the IVC, and a regional appearance. I just never saw them being a state-quality team unless a bunch of players really stepped up. They did improve, but not to the degree that they needed to in order to be a serious challenger. If they had gotten past Shady, they would have met my expectations, but Dave's expectations are different - and they should be. But from my perspective, 18-5, sole IVC championship, and a district appearance ain't bad.

Hiland has won by great coaching, community support, and good kids. They'll be at State again.