Thoughts?

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sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Jan 18, 2011 5:43 PM
Well after a short and brief hiatus from the college football forums, I am back. Here are some thoughts:

The first thing I want to comment on is the "safety" that occurred during the sugar bowl. What a joke.

Ok now that I got that off my chest the next important subject is the tattoo 5. The punishment is pretty severe for the crime and I bet it gets reduced down to 3-4 games and Ohio State goes undefeated in those games even without them. What they did was wrong, and they deserve the punishment, but really the rule is a stupid one. And to mark May who says if this happened to Mallet the SEC would suspend him, he is delusional. If this happened in the SEC, we wouldn't know about it for 4-5 years until after Mallet graduated and Arkansas would get a slap on the wrist.

Congrats to Auburn on the Championship, they deserved it, for now. Cam Newton will probably be ruled ineligible in a couple years, I can't believe he had no knowledge of his dad seeking money for his services. What a joke.

I'm embarrassed that Wisconsin, MSU, and Penn State got worked in their bowl games. I'd say Michigan as well, but we all know Michigan is garbage even with Denard Robinson. But oh well, the Big Ten still has a winning record against the SEC, so the Big Ten still carries the crown as the best conference, for now.

That's all I can think of for now.
Jan 18, 2011 5:43pm
Leonardo's avatar

Leonardo

Senior Member

4,986 posts
Jan 18, 2011 5:44 PM
That is shockingly a good post, sleeper.
Jan 18, 2011 5:44pm
V

vball10set

paying it forward

24,795 posts
Jan 18, 2011 5:53 PM
welcome back, sleeper--it's good to have you upstairs again...now, about that avatar :confused:
Jan 18, 2011 5:53pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Jan 18, 2011 6:26 PM
I think the 'Sugar Bowl safety" was a joke too. In all seriousness, I think that the NCAA has to review that rule and make sure that a defense can't just push a runner back into the end zone and then release him before the whistle blows so as to tackle him in the end zone. If it doesn't, then that play goes into every defensive coordinator's play book tomorrow, if it already hasn't been put in.
Jan 18, 2011 6:26pm
krambman's avatar

krambman

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3,606 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:51 AM
That was lucid and surprisingly accurate. If you posted like that all the time this forum would be a much better place. The only thing you got wrong was about Penn State getting worked over. That game was close and they led most of the time.
Jan 19, 2011 12:51am
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Jan 19, 2011 7:04 AM
HitsRus;643050 wrote:I think the 'Sugar Bowl safety" was a joke too. In all seriousness, I think that the NCAA has to review that rule and make sure that a defense can't just push a runner back into the end zone and then release him before the whistle blows so as to tackle him in the end zone. If it doesn't, then that play goes into every defensive coordinator's play book tomorrow, if it already hasn't been put in.

Yes, I'll bet every defensive coordinator in the country is going to be rushing to teach their kids how to miss tackles so they can hope the runner goes backward then forward again. Not sure what the joke is, seems pretty easy to understand to me.
Jan 19, 2011 7:04am
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Jan 19, 2011 8:24 AM
Well if it is so easy to understand, how come you don't get it? You are kind of on the right track though...the defense should not get an advantage in that situation by missing tackles either by poor technique or on purpose. Also, the runner should not be penalized for trying to get extra yards.

Down by 9 with time running down....hell, yes that play goes in the book.
Jan 19, 2011 8:24am
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enigmaax

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4,511 posts
Jan 19, 2011 9:01 AM
HitsRus;643595 wrote:Well if it is so easy to understand, how come you don't get it? You are kind of on the right track though...the defense should not get an advantage in that situation by missing tackles either by poor technique or on purpose. Also, the runner should not be penalized for trying to get extra yards.

Down by 9 with time running down....hell, yes that play goes in the book.

Amazing that no coach has ever thought of that in all these years.

So, let's say this wasn't in the endzone. Say, the runner was hit at the 50 yard line and knocked backwards, but keeps going. Ends up running several yards the other direction while trying to avoid defenders, goes from sideline to sideline, and is finally tackled at his own 40 yard line. You want him to get those ten yards back because he shouldn't be penalized for trying to get extra yards?
Jan 19, 2011 9:01am
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Jan 19, 2011 9:46 AM
To be fair, I don't believe it's ever been called/not called quite like it was until the Sugar Bowl, at least not to my recollection. I think that is the point.
Jan 19, 2011 9:46am
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Jan 19, 2011 10:17 AM
ytownfootball;643680 wrote:To be fair, I don't believe it's ever been called/not called quite like it was until the Sugar Bowl, at least not to my recollection. I think that is the point.

I think you may not recollect because of a couple things: 1) it doesn't happen that way very often and 2) the impact of the call is rarely the same - putting points on the board as opposed to being a simple (and potentially insignificant) spot of the ball.
Jan 19, 2011 10:17am
D

dat dude

Senior Member

1,564 posts
Jan 19, 2011 10:20 AM
The "safety" has already been discussed ad nauseum on another thread. It was a terrible call, no doubt.
Jan 19, 2011 10:20am
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enigmaax

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4,511 posts
Jan 19, 2011 10:29 AM
dat dude;643728 wrote:The "safety" has already been discussed ad nauseum on another thread. It was a terrible call, no doubt.

Sorry, didn't read that thread, just saw it referenced here. Which thread was it? I'm interested to read the other side because I don't even know why it is a question...wasn't terrible, at all.
Jan 19, 2011 10:29am
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

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14,946 posts
Jan 19, 2011 10:59 AM
HitsRus;643595 wrote:Well if it is so easy to understand, how come you don't get it? You are kind of on the right track though...the defense should not get an advantage in that situation by missing tackles either by poor technique or on purpose. Also, the runner should not be penalized for trying to get extra yards.

Down by 9 with time running down....hell, yes that play goes in the book.

you really dont understand the situation.
Jan 19, 2011 10:59am
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

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14,946 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:00 AM
enigmaax;643733 wrote:Sorry, didn't read that thread, just saw it referenced here. Which thread was it? I'm interested to read the other side because I don't even know why it is a question...wasn't terrible, at all.

the only thing bad about it was that the whistle should have been blown because forward progress was stopped. but in the events that occured, (boom breaking the tackle in the endzone), it was a safety.
Jan 19, 2011 11:00am
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:06 AM
It was discussed in the Sugar Bowl in-game thread. Herron's forward progress was stopped at the 2 yard line. Even though he broke a tackle in the end zone, he never started moving forward again, he was immediately driven back again by 2 more defenders. Since the last point he progressed forward was the 2 yard line, that is where the ball should have been spotted.
Jan 19, 2011 11:06am
D

dat dude

Senior Member

1,564 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:21 AM
enigmaax;643733 wrote:Sorry, didn't read that thread, just saw it referenced here. Which thread was it? I'm interested to read the other side because I don't even know why it is a question...wasn't terrible, at all.

If you look at the rulebook, the officials blew the call. I believe there was a thread titled "Safety or no safety" or something of the sort.
Jan 19, 2011 11:21am
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Jan 19, 2011 11:46 AM
dat dude;643809 wrote:If you look at the rulebook, the officials blew the call. I believe there was a thread titled "Safety or no safety" or something of the sort.

Thanks - I did find the thread, though I'm not going to read through all those pages.

I understand the point of view that the whistle should have been blown and the play stopped before he went back into the endzone, even though I still don't agree. I also don't think any of you trying that as your argument would like the consequences if applied to every play. Basically, a runner would have no chance to break any reasonable attempt at a tackle because the whistle would have to be blown way before the ball carrier goes down.

Certainly you'd be claiming it was the worst call in the world had they blown the whistle there a split second before the guy broke completely free and was off to the races.

Anyway, that just comes down to a difference in how you saw the play happen versus how the officials (and some others) saw the play happen. The original post to which I responded was that the NCAA needs to re-evaluate the whole rule, which I still find to be silly. The fact that the officials determined his forward progress was not stopped while in the grasp and he subsequently was tackled in the endzone doesn't make the rule bad. And given the officials' perspective, they made the right call (as I did see several already pointed out on the other thread).
Jan 19, 2011 11:46am
jhay78's avatar

jhay78

Senior Member

1,917 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:24 PM
sleeper;642996 wrote:Well after a short and brief hiatus from the college football forums, I am back. Here are some thoughts:

The first thing I want to comment on is the "safety" that occurred during the sugar bowl. What a joke.

Ok now that I got that off my chest the next important subject is the tattoo 5. The punishment is pretty severe for the crime and I bet it gets reduced down to 3-4 games and Ohio State goes undefeated in those games even without them. What they did was wrong, and they deserve the punishment, but really the rule is a stupid one. And to mark May who says if this happened to Mallet the SEC would suspend him, he is delusional. If this happened in the SEC, we wouldn't know about it for 4-5 years until after Mallet graduated and Arkansas would get a slap on the wrist.

Congrats to Auburn on the Championship, they deserved it, for now. Cam Newton will probably be ruled ineligible in a couple years, I can't believe he had no knowledge of his dad seeking money for his services. What a joke.

I'm embarrassed that Wisconsin, MSU, and Penn State got worked in their bowl games. I'd say Michigan as well, but we all know Michigan is garbage even with Denard Robinson. But oh well, the Big Ten still has a winning record against the SEC, so the Big Ten still carries the crown as the best conference, for now.

That's all I can think of for now.

You forgot "How about them Irish smashing the U in the (I forget which) Bowl!"
Jan 19, 2011 12:24pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Jan 19, 2011 12:38 PM
When polled however, over 80% of officials felt the wrong call was made, (courtesy of sonofanump). That kinda removes the homer bias some feel exists on the matter. The wrong call was made, it cost points and possession...because forward progress wasn't blown dead.
Originally Posted by Sonofanump
It's been updated since I left this morning. It is now at 81% believe the safety to incorrect.
Jan 19, 2011 12:38pm
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Jan 19, 2011 1:16 PM
ytownfootball;643934 wrote:When polled however, over 80% of officials felt the wrong call was made, (courtesy of sonofanump). That kinda removes the homer bias some feel exists on the matter. The wrong call was made, it cost points and possession...because forward progress wasn't blown dead.

Yeah, you know, I went back and watched it again. He was driven back awfully far in the first place. I can see why people feel it should have been blown dead before he broke free.

Guess it really doesn't matter at what point a mistake was made if it leads to the same end result.
Jan 19, 2011 1:16pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Jan 19, 2011 1:35 PM
The point was also made that the line judge raised his hand signaling the end of play/forward progress too, though not the whistle, still signals end of play. I don't consider it a big deal, though a different outcome of the game would have my opinion seen differently. I doubt those exact circumstances happen again in another 1000 games.
Jan 19, 2011 1:35pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Jan 19, 2011 1:47 PM
It really isn't hard to clarify the rule at all...and take whether the whistle blew or not out of the equation.

here it is:

When the ball carrier is driven into the endzone by defensive contact, he should be awarded forward progress in all cases.

That way it is the defenses' responsibility to wrap the runner up, and the ball carrier is at no jeopardy for trying to advance the ball. This has no other bearing on any other plays anywhere else on the field.
Jan 19, 2011 1:47pm
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
Jan 19, 2011 2:25 PM
^you are really thinking wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much if you think defenses are going to have a "plan" to drive a ball carrier back in the endzone and let them go for another teammate to tackle them to get a safety.
Jan 19, 2011 2:25pm
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enigmaax

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4,511 posts
Jan 19, 2011 3:20 PM
HitsRus;644067 wrote:It really isn't hard to clarify the rule at all...and take whether the whistle blew or not out of the equation.

here it is:

When the ball carrier is driven into the endzone by defensive contact, he should be awarded forward progress in all cases.

That way it is the defenses' responsibility to wrap the runner up, and the ball carrier is at no jeopardy for trying to advance the ball. This has no other bearing on any other plays anywhere else on the field.

Yeah, this is the part I just find ridiculous in the conversation. There's no problem with the rule.
Jan 19, 2011 3:20pm
believer's avatar

believer

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8,153 posts
Jan 19, 2011 3:55 PM
sleeper;642996 wrote:I'm embarrassed that Wisconsin, MSU, and Penn State got worked in their bowl games. I'd say Michigan as well, but we all know Michigan is garbage even with Denard Robinson.
I agree in general but I wouldn't say Penn State got worked. They actually played a surprisingly good game against Florida yet got homered on several occasions.
Jan 19, 2011 3:55pm