Commander of Awesome;874247 wrote:Whats dumb about calling it as I see it? Wouldnt a 4 time pro bowler also deserve this slack you're so readily eager to hand out?

It's not logical to call it as you see it in that situation.

I thought Hardesty looked good running the ball. He had one bad run(first one) but finished off his runs.

DeyDurkie5;874264 wrote:It's not logical to call it as you see it in that situation.

What's not logical in evaluating his carries?

It's not logical to say that those carries are in any way relevant to his season performance, but those carries are certainly open to critique.

lhslep134;874275 wrote:What's not logical in evaluating his carries?

It's not logical to say that those carries are in any way relevant to his season performance, but those carries are certainly open to critique.

It's not logical to hold him to the same evaluating standards as Joe Thomas. I don't see how this is even a debate

DeyDurkie5;874282 wrote:It's not logical to hold him to the same evaluating standards as Joe Thomas. I don't see how this is even a debate

He wasn't. He was stating how he critiqued Hardesty and then once you attacked him stated how he critiqued Thomas too. I don't understand how you don't see that.

lhslep134;874284 wrote:He wasn't. He was stating how he critiqued Hardesty and then once you attacked him stated how he critiqued Thomas too. I don't understand how you don't see that.

You don't hold him to the same standards as a normal player when evaluating someone who is just returning to action after a year off from an ACL injury. That's my opinion on it. If you want to lambast him for looking like shit, go ahead. But I believe, in my opinion, that you don't know jack shit.

You can judge him all you want on last nights' 5 carries. I'm not going there. He played, didn't get hurt, and showed signs of being healthy. That's the 3 most important things to take away from last night.

royal_k;874318 wrote:You can judge him all you want on last nights' 5 carries. I'm not going there. He played, didn't get hurt, and showed signs of being healthy. That's the 3 most important things to take away from last night.

That's all I'm trying to say. But DeyDurkie is using his hatred of COA to criticize his right to critique them. Quite funny

lhslep134;874321 wrote:That's all I'm trying to say. But DeyDurkie is using his hatred of COA to criticize his right to critique them. Quite funny

are you serious? I just said I'm glad he didn't get injured and it's way to early to critique him like COA did. Like I said, he has his right to critique him, but it's unfair and not justified to do it this early in his comeback.

I dont hate CoA, but I think its stupid to be harsh on Hardesty for 5 carries. CoA has held a grudge against Hardesty since he was drafted, so his evaluation is easily biased.

Hardesty didn't look "terrible" but he looked like a RB that hadn't played in a year, rusty. I expect improvement as he gets more reps.

As far as the overall assessment of the game? Only watched the first half but things don't appear as the final score would indicate.

I figured the Browns would try to see what they had in the running game but I guess their goal was to see how McCoy would fare against one of the best secondaries in football. If the Browns wanted to, they could have run the ball, at will, ALL night long on Philly's defense.

McCoy made some REALLY nice throws (long balls to Robo & Moore). Didn't like the fact that he was running for his life all night. The pass protection has regressed over the past two weeks.

As far as the defense goes, what more can be said about Phil Taylor? Dude was in beast mode. If he can provide a pass rush that will be a cherry on top of the sundae because he's known more as a run stuffer. Jayme Mitchell was also solid getting in the backfield. Sheard was non-existant.

DQ Jackson, if healthy, has definitely rebounded from these injuries. Dude is all over the field. Fujita's return will help.

Joe Haden, quietly, played a very good game last night.

The special teams need to pick up their skirt and get their shit together. This team will miss Brad Seely and Eric Mangini (only for the discipline he instilled in them...sucked as a coach but they cut WAY back on penalties with him).

This game coulda, shoulda, woulda easily been 7-7, at worst, going into the half if Robo, Hillis or Moore catch their passes, DQ doesn't get flagged, Sheldon Brown doesn't knock Norwood down & the ball hits him and Moore doesn't throw a "lookout/ole" block on Dawson's FG attempt.

The Browns have a lot of work to do but make no mistake, the Eagles are no "Dream Team" at this point. Vick looks confused as Hell and looks like he reverted back to his Atlanta days (a RB that occasionally threw the ball) versus last year when he looked like a confident, poised QB. The Orange & Brown better get it together or they could be staring down the barrel of a big fat "L" against Cincy in the opener.

I agree eagles looked like shit. It will be hard the throw against them, but not impossible. Their Oline is terrible too.

My biggest concern is the play calling. I hope we aren't the pass first team that we showed last night and I assume they just did it because Hillis and Hardesey are banged up. What was St.Louis's pass/run ratio last year? They had a similar situation with a a good running game and new QB.

OneBuckeye;874492 wrote:I agree eagles looked like shit. It will be hard the throw against them, but not impossible. Their Oline is terrible too.

My biggest concern is the play calling. I hope we aren't the pass first team that we showed last night and I assume they just did it because Hillis and Hardesey are banged up. What was St.Louis's pass/run ratio last year? They had a similar situation with a a good running game and new QB.

Jackson had over 300 carries the last 2 years, I believe.

So last year the rams had 429/590 (42% run) run/pass attempts and avged 3.7/5.5 yds per attempt

The Browns 413/478 (46% run) run/pass attempts and avged 4/6.25 yds per attempt.

Steinbach out indefinitely with a disc issue in his back. Pinkston better step it up.

Taylor Making Big Strides
		By Fred Greetham OBR Browns Reporter Posted Aug 26, 2011 Browns rookie DT Phil Taylor showed why he was a first-round pick Thursday night.
BEREA—One of the bright spots coming out of the Eagles loss was the play of rookie Phil Taylor. The No. 1 draft choice broke through and knocked Michael Vick to the ground on the game’s third play, causing a fumble which Jayme Mitchell recovered. “I’m just getting better every week in practice,” Taylor said. “Every play I’m working to prove, I’m doing extra conditioning and learning to run after the play.” Pat Shurmur said Taylor has gotten better every game. “There were some flashes of what you expect from a defensive tackle in this league,” he said. “He’s really making steady progress. “He had a sack,” Shurmur said. “He forced a fumble. I think he’s making steady improvement getting to the level of play that we expect from him. He played better and I’m comparing his play in games and in each game he has played better.” A defensive lineman’s play doesn’t always show up in the statistics as many times the tackles are double-teamed. Taylor’s only tackle against Philadelphia was the sack and forced fumble. “If I’m double-teamed, the linebackers get the tackles,” he said. “For me, it’s just doing my job.” Taylor said the use of his hands in getting past the offensive lineman has been important at this level. “I’ve been using my hands my whole career,” he said. “You have to use your hands more at this level.” Shurmur likes the way Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin are playing in tandem. “They are working very well together,” he said. “For a young guy, Rubin is a nice guy for Phil to pair up with.” Taylor is happy with his progress and plans to just get better. “I think I did a good job against (Vick),” he said. “I know that I needed to work on my pass rushing and week in and out it is getting better. I think (against the Eagles) I did a better job.” Notebook So Far, So Good: It appears that RB Montario Hardesty came through the first game with no setbacks. Hardest carried the ball five times for 15 yards and had one run for five yards. “It felt really good to be on the field and take some hits,” he said. “It felt great to be the first time out there and make some plays. “I did not play a lot in the game, but I felt good while I was in there,” he said. “I just want to continue to improve and feel good and hopefully, get more action in the next game.” Injuries Mounting: WR Mohamed Massaquoi (foot), WR Carlton Mitchell (finger), DB T.J. Ward (hamstring), DB Usama Young (hamstring), LB Marcus Benard (shoulder), WR Jordan Norwood (knee), DB Dimitri Patterson (ankle). LB Archie Donald (stinger), LB Titus Brown (ankle), LB Chris Gocong (neck), WR Josh Cribbs (hamstring), LB Steve Octavien (leg), OL Eric Steinbach (back) and RB Brandon Jackson (toe) all didn’t practice. Shurmur said he expects Massaquoi to practice this week, but doesn’t know if he’ll play in the final preseason game. “(The trainers) tell me that he should practice this week,” Shurmur said. Shurmur said that Brown suffered what appears to be a high ankle sprain and he will most likely be out for a while. Jackson is in a cast and Shurmur didn’t sound optimistic about him returning very soon. “It’s hard to say,” he said. “He’s in a cast. He’ll be out a while. The toe isn’t broken, but it will take some time.” The injury was earlier termed a ‘turf toe.’ Shurmur is hoping Young will be able to practice soon. “He’s improving,” he said. “He’s getting better and soon he’ll be out here.” Shurmur said that Steinbach is getting treatments for his back, but there is no timetable for his return. With Steinbach out, rookie Jason Pinkston has been getting the nod at left guard. “He has made huge, huge strides in three weeks,” Shurmur said. “He’s at a very challenging position and he’s making huge progress.” Shurmur was asked if it’s frustrating to be dealing with so many injuries. “I talk to the other coaches and we’re all dealing with the same types of issues,” he said.

http://cle.scout.com/2/1099598.html

Injuries....injuries....and more injuries

I'm wondering where John Greco comes into play here. He started the Detroit game ahead of Pinkston. Injuries are gonna be killer to start the year.

SportsAndLady;873927 wrote:Serial?

Fabio;873933 wrote:A second year QB who is in a new system in which he has had limited time to learn due to the lockout sucks because he threw a pick against the best secondary in the NFL?

Makes sense to me. Andrew Luck 2012!

I had to go back, because I knew my Colt comment would fly right over the head of somebody, it just so happens it got two people back-to-back..

My comment was sarcasm. If you've read ANYTHING I've posted about Colt, you'd know that I'm pretty positive about him. I feel he could be the franchise QB and I also wanted the Browns to draft him coming out of college.

My comment of "Colt McCoy fucking sucks" was straight sarcasm on him throwing his first pick of the preseason. I thought for sure the Colt McCoy haters would come out and say something idiotic because he played his first "average" game.

I believe the saying goes "you can't make the club from the tub". If some of these guys don't sack up with some of these minor injuries they could find themselves on the first train to cut city....

hoops23;874961 wrote:I had to go back, because I knew my Colt comment would fly right over the head of somebody, it just so happens it got two people back-to-back..

My comment was sarcasm. If you've read ANYTHING I've posted about Colt, you'd know that I'm pretty positive about him. I feel he could be the franchise QB and I also wanted the Browns to draft him coming out of college.

My comment of "Colt McCoy ****ing sucks" was straight sarcasm on him throwing his first pick of the preseason. I thought for sure the Colt McCoy haters would come out and say something idiotic because he played his first "average" game.

Chill out, we just didn't pick up on the sarcasm...hence why I asked if you were serious

SportsAndLady;875051 wrote:Chill out, we just didn't pick up on the sarcasm...hence why I asked if you were serious

I did. Just didn't comment on it. Knowing hoops posting history I don't take him for someone who will fly off the handle over a preseason game.

OhioStatePride2003;874934 wrote:I'm wondering where John Greco comes into play here. He started the Detroit game ahead of Pinkston. Injuries are gonna be killer to start the year.

From what I'm hearing, Greco is "just a guy"...depth. Heckert is going to have to go out and get a RB, LB & DL depth when these cuts come. Brandon Jackson will be down at least 6 weeks and Titus Brown, who is their best backup LB, has the dreaded high ankle sprain. I'm not in a position to trust Hardesty's ability to stay healthy at this point. Tommy Boy needs to work that waiver wire come 8/30.

BR1986FB;875062 wrote:Knowing hoops posting history I don't take him for someone who will fly off the handle over a preseason game.

I knew it was sort of out of character...that's why I asked if he was serious lol

BR1986FB;875067 wrote:From what I'm hearing, Greco is "just a guy"...depth. Heckert is going to have to go out and get a RB, LB & DL depth when these cuts come. Brandon Jackson will be down at least 6 weeks and Titus Brown, who is their best backup LB, has the dreaded high ankle sprain. I'm not in a position to trust Hardesty's ability to stay healthy at this point. Tommy Boy needs to work that waiver wire come 8/30.

Brown has had a killer preseason, but I think Kaluka Maiava has done an admirable job filling in for Gocong. Brian Smith, although a rookie, has done a decent job with his playing time too. I agree though, we need depth at LB, RB, DL and now - I'd say OL.