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Cleveland Browns 2011 Super Awesome In-Season Thread

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ Cleveland Browns 2011 Super Awesome In-Season Thread
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Nov 2, 2011 8:22 PM
Hilarious stuff. Let's not pretend that I'm the only one discounting McCoy. He's not good enough. It's that simple. Give it time and I'll be proven right, just like most predictions I've made on here.

As for the 3-4 record, let's keep it in perspective. They have played as easy of a schedule as anyone. They will be lucky to win 3 more games this year.
Nov 2, 2011 8:22pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Nov 2, 2011 8:29 PM
Regarding McCoy being able to be coached, you can't coach height and arm strength. A lot of teams can use the lockout as an excuse, but good players have been able to overcome that (Newton, Ponder, Dalton).

A buddy who is a die hard Browns fan was debating with me the other day. I said McCoy was by far the worst QB in the division. He claimed he was better than Dalton. I told him if the Browns proposed a trade to swap QBs they would get laughed at. Well he called me on Sunday and said, "Yea, Dalton is far better.". At some point you have to take off the blinders.
Nov 2, 2011 8:29pm
B

BR1986FB

Senior Member

24,104 posts
Nov 2, 2011 8:31 PM
Personally, I have serious doubts that McCoy's the answer myself. Sure, the O-Line has looked cruddy but some of that is on McCoy holding the ball WAY too long.

You also have to be able to throw those intermediate throws with zip & accuracy. I just don't see it in him. And the long ball? Forget about it.

It would be nice if they could dink & dunk their way to the playoffs in the near future but teams figure that out real quick.
Nov 2, 2011 8:31pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

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13,650 posts
Nov 2, 2011 8:35 PM
Commander of Awesome;955425 wrote:I expect us to be competitive for a division title next season even though I don't see it this season.
I don't have any expectations until I see what they end up doing with the next draft and free agency, but it would take a hell of an offseason for me to even consider that a possibility personally.
Nov 2, 2011 8:35pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Nov 2, 2011 8:36 PM
BR1986FB;955464 wrote:Personally, I have serious doubts that McCoy's the answer myself. Sure, the O-Line has looked cruddy but some of that is on McCoy holding the ball WAY too long.

You also have to be able to throw those intermediate throws with zip & accuracy. I just don't see it in him. And the long ball? Forget about it.

It would be nice if they could dink & dunk their way to the playoffs in the near future but teams figure that out real quick.
Troll.

I agree with all that it's not all on him. The running game has been pathetic, so he's being asked to do too much. But the NFL is a QB driven league, and in most cases you are only as good as your QB. Would an elite receiver help? Of course it would. But he still wouldn't have the arm strength to get the ball downfield.
Nov 2, 2011 8:36pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Nov 2, 2011 8:38 PM
Mulva;955468 wrote:I don't have any expectations until I see what they end up doing with the next draft and free agency, but it would take a hell of an offseason for me to even consider that a possibility personally.
See my post above. Although Baltimore and Pittsburgh are getting older, they have at least one more year. And Cincinnati has a great foundation now and will continue to improve.
Nov 2, 2011 8:38pm
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Nov 2, 2011 8:40 PM
Dalton is better than McCoy right now.

Even if they had an elite/stretch the field type of WR, who in the Hell is going to get it to them? McCoy is either a) afraid to throw deep or b) can't.

I want nothing more than McCoy to come on like gangbusters the second half of this year so they can use high draft picks on other needs but I just don't see him being "the guy" right now.
Nov 2, 2011 8:40pm
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

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9,002 posts
Nov 2, 2011 9:17 PM
The more I watch Barkley the more I want him. He would be a great fit for this offense and has a very strong arm.
Nov 2, 2011 9:17pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Nov 2, 2011 9:36 PM
Crimson streak;955504 wrote:The more I watch Barkley the more I want him. He would be a great fit for this offense and has a very strong arm.
This! Yes Luck is a stud, but I almost like Barkley as much. He isn't as tall, but can make all the throws.

Really do not like Landry Jones.
Nov 2, 2011 9:36pm
S

Sonofanump

Nov 2, 2011 11:57 PM
Question. With the new labor contract, are the 2012 draft picks given a slotted amount? I am wondering if Luck's salary will look like a bargain compared to Bradford or even Stafford. If the Rams finish last, they might not look for much to take Bradford's contract off of their hands.
Nov 2, 2011 11:57pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

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13,650 posts
Nov 2, 2011 11:59 PM
Yes. That was already in place for this year's draft picks once the labor agreement was finalized. Cam Newton got 4 years, $22 mil vs. Bradford's 6 years, $78m and $50 mil guaranteed.
Nov 2, 2011 11:59pm
OQB's avatar

OQB

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Nov 3, 2011 12:03 AM
Mulva;955698 wrote:Yes. That was already in place for this year's draft picks once the labor agreement was finalized. Cam Newton got 4 years, $22 mil vs. Bradford's 6 years, $78m and $50 mil guaranteed.

wow, that is just crazy to think about....an unproven guy getting 50 mil guaranteed. This change needed to happen years ago.
Nov 3, 2011 12:03am
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Nov 3, 2011 5:29 AM
FWIW...Phil Simms not sold on Andrew Luck....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/02/phil-simms-not-sold-on-andrew-luck/

If the Browns want someone like Barkley they had better be selecting in the top 3 or willing to trade up. QB's will likely be the first 3 slots taken.
Nov 3, 2011 5:29am
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

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9,002 posts
Nov 3, 2011 7:31 AM
I'm not sold on McCoy if Barkley is there when we pick I say take him. If he's not then you stick with McCoy for another year and fill other needs. I would not trade up at all unless it is for luck
Nov 3, 2011 7:31am
derek bomar's avatar

derek bomar

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3,722 posts
Nov 3, 2011 7:34 AM
I think we should fill other needs first. I'd like to see McCoy with some actual talent around him and another year in the system...but that's just me. Rotating qbs every 3 years doesn't work.
Nov 3, 2011 7:34am
Y-Town Steelhound's avatar

Y-Town Steelhound

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Nov 3, 2011 8:03 AM
I agree that unless you can get Barkley or Luck, the Browns should not be drafting a QB next year. We've seen where drafting a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB gets you. Build the rest of the offense first so that when they do have an opportunity to get a franchise guy he'll have the best opportunity for success.

Obviously Dalton has looked better than McCoy thus far, but Dalton also has a better offense around him by far. Even Cam Newton and Christian Ponder have far better weapons at their disposal than McCoy. I'm not saying better weapons would make McCoy a franchise kind of guy, but it would certainly make him better and give whoever is the franchise guy a great chance at success.
Nov 3, 2011 8:03am
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

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23,151 posts
Nov 3, 2011 8:08 AM
lol at trollnasty's predictions. He predicted the Cavs wouldnt make the playoffs after losing LBJ, really going out on the limb there dumbass. I can't wait til he predicts the Colts wont make the playoffs next.
Nov 3, 2011 8:08am
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

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Nov 3, 2011 8:27 AM
As for McCoy goes, he hasn't played well or consistent this year. I think he possess the skills to be a successful QB though. After DA I'm no longer a big believer in the rocket arm. Kurt Warner didn't have a rocket arm but was a great QB. As for his height, it doesn't affect Drew Brees and theyre the same height. If McCoy doesn't turn out to be the answer it wont be because he's not 6'5" nor will it be because he can't throw a 70 yd pass on a rope. Think about it, how many times does a QB throw hail mary bombs anyway? Few times a yr? I've seen McCoy throw a 40 yd TD pass, its not often if ever the QB has to throw it 70 yds.

Where he needs to improve his ability to throw it farther than 10 yds. I'm not sure if it the playcalling, the terrible oline, lack of the speed WR, or him. That has yet to be seen. What I do know is that Holmgren and Heckert have gone out of their way to praise him and Heckert is even on record saying that McCoy will be the starting QB next season. Whether thats fluff or not I'm not sure, but they seem to have faith in the kid.

Just think back to last season when McCoy first started and how well he played. Posters on here were even saying we finally found our QB etc.... Short term memory some have. Rivers has 11 ints, Freeman has been terrible all season yet I dont see SD or TB fans ready to dump their QB.
Nov 3, 2011 8:27am
S

Sonofanump

Nov 3, 2011 9:16 AM
Remember that McCoy was a third round pick. Not a lot of money or draft status invested into him.

I think he can be a serviceable 10-15th best QB, never a top 10. Right now he is a mid 20's QB.
Nov 3, 2011 9:16am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Nov 3, 2011 10:02 AM
Sonofanump;955960 wrote:Remember that McCoy was a third round pick. Not a lot of money or draft status invested into him.

I think he can be a serviceable 10-15th best QB, never a top 10. Right now he is a mid 20's QB.
Mid 20's? I can't name 4 QBs he's better than. Maybe Painter, Tebow, and the guy from Seattle(white something).
Nov 3, 2011 10:02am
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Nov 3, 2011 10:37 AM
wes_mantooth;6 wrote:Who is the biggest GOAT of them all?

agreed...he is bottom 5
Nov 3, 2011 10:37am
S

Sonofanump

Nov 3, 2011 10:39 AM
sleeper;956046 wrote:Mid 20's? I can't name 4 QBs he's better than. Maybe Painter, Tebow, and the guy from Seattle(white something).
I'm sure you have you own criteria and all since you are the best ever and all. Interesting enough, he is #25 in QB rating which is a pretty comprehensive gauge of a QB. I would take McCoy over the three you mentioned plus Ponder, Grossman, Henne/Moore, Orton/Tebow. He is not a world beater, but he is serviceable.
Nov 3, 2011 10:39am
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

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Nov 3, 2011 10:40 AM
Yeah, colt is bottom 5 in the league
Nov 3, 2011 10:40am
Y-Town Steelhound's avatar

Y-Town Steelhound

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Nov 3, 2011 12:11 PM
I agree with the mid 20s assessment. I'd gladly take him over Tebow (unless they designed the offense around him), Whitehurst/Jackson, Grossman/Beck, Gabbert, Painter, and Henne/Moore. Leaves him just outside the bottom 5 which I think is accurate.

Again, he has a really shitty offense around him (line can't give him time, playcalling doesn't utilize his strengths, receivers are terrible) but he doesn't appear to be destined for more than a career as a very good backup (think Billy Volek/Matt Flynn type). I think he'd fare better for a dome team. People always bring up the Brees comparison when talking about what McCoy could be....however keep in mind that Brees has played in SD and NO in his career and though he went to Purdue, he's had some notoriously bad games in poor weather (playoffs vs. Seahawks immediately comes to mind).

I agree that QB's in general don't need a strong arm, but QB's in cold weather cities/division DO. Can you name a weak armed quarterback that has fared well in a bad weather city? I sure as hell can't. Someone brought up Kurt Warner and his arm strength. Kurt Warner was a beast in St. Louis (dome) and Arizona (Warm weather semi-dome). How'd it work out for him in New York? Oh yea, not well.

The successful cold weather city QB's in the NFL (Brady, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, even to a degree Cutler and Flacco) all have pretty strong arms.
Nov 3, 2011 12:11pm
OQB's avatar

OQB

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Nov 3, 2011 1:16 PM
Y-Town Steelhound;956299 wrote:I agree with the mid 20s assessment. I'd gladly take him over Tebow (unless they designed the offense around him), Whitehurst/Jackson, Grossman/Beck, Gabbert, Painter, and Henne/Moore. Leaves him just outside the bottom 5 which I think is accurate.

Again, he has a really shitty offense around him (line can't give him time, playcalling doesn't utilize his strengths, receivers are terrible) but he doesn't appear to be destined for more than a career as a very good backup (think Billy Volek/Matt Flynn type). I think he'd fare better for a dome team. People always bring up the Brees comparison when talking about what McCoy could be....however keep in mind that Brees has played in SD and NO in his career and though he went to Purdue, he's had some notoriously bad games in poor weather (playoffs vs. Seahawks immediately comes to mind).

I agree that QB's in general don't need a strong arm, but QB's in cold weather cities/division DO. Can you name a weak armed quarterback that has fared well in a bad weather city? I sure as hell can't. Someone brought up Kurt Warner and his arm strength. Kurt Warner was a beast in St. Louis (dome) and Arizona (Warm weather semi-dome). How'd it work out for him in New York? Oh yea, not well.

The successful cold weather city QB's in the NFL (Brady, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, even to a degree Cutler and Flacco) all have pretty strong arms.
nice post!
Nov 3, 2011 1:16pm