OQB;954158 wrote:Heckert is very good at evaluating talent and drafting players. He is superior to the past gm's the Browns have had. Yeah these drafts are still being evaluated, but what Heckert has done with the horrible roster he started with is pretty good.....drafting guys that can have an immediate impact and that are actually part of the future of the organization.

That may be true, but we will find out this offseason. He has to know at this point that McCoy isn't the answer. With that said, I don't know who I like outside of Luck and Barkley.

Well, maybe he was thinking ahead when he traded the Falcons to get an additional 1st round pick in the upcoming draft.....

OQB;954174 wrote:Well, maybe he was thinking ahead when he traded the Falcons to get an additional 1st round pick in the upcoming draft.....

Or maybe he could have drafted Ponder? Just because he picked up a pick doesn't necessarily mean it was the right move.

I agree it was probably the right move, but again, it's too early to commend him for it when we haven't seen it play out yet.

Agreed.....but look at his track record and what he did for the Eagles in the draft.

OQB;954194 wrote:Agreed.....but look at his track record and what he did for the Eagles in the draft.

I don't know the answer, but I always wondered how much had to do with Reid (draft and coaching).

I think we can both agree that he is much better than Davis, Savage, Kokinis, etc... haha

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/783102-nfl-free-agency-cleveland-browns-gm-tom-heckerts-10-best-free-agent-signings

Fyi

thedynasty1998;954181 wrote:Or maybe he could have drafted Ponder? Just because he picked up a pick doesn't necessarily mean it was the right move.

I agree it was probably the right move, but again, it's too early to commend him for it when we haven't seen it play out yet.

ok so you're ready to say that we should have drafted ponder and he's the real deal after 1.5 games (at home with a stud RB behind him) but you're going to criticize Heckert and say you're not sure that trading for an additional first rounder wasn't the right move? LMAO, whatever trollnasty. This pathetic attempt at "getting under people's skin" (which btw you have admitted to doing) is laughable.

thedynasty1998;954161 wrote:I don't get the fascination with him. I'm not ready to write him off, but I don't know what moves he's made that would be considered spectacular.

I stopped reading right here. If you can't see what he's done for this much improved defense through the draft (Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard), free agency (Young, Fujita) and trades (Mitchell, Brown, Gocong) you're not paying attention. By my count, that's 9 of the 11 starters right there.

His defense is the ONLY thing respectable about this team right now besides Phil Dawson.

Can't exactly build BOTH the offense AND defense in two drafts when you're as talent depleted as this team.

I expect him to draft heavily on offense in 2012 and sprinkle in a few more key free agents to fill out the roster.

Spot on BR. Womangini depeated this team of any talent it had (in Leon's case rightfully so) but then wasted the draft pick compensation. This team was so serverly lacking talent by the time Heckert took over. I've been impressed with what the guy has been able to do, and lets not short change the guy. His first year here he made some shrewd trades that really helped this team (Alex Hall for Sheldon Brown and Gocong). This season because of the lack of an offseason, trading was severely limited. Had their been an offseason I would believe a trade to help this team probably would have been made. Also BR this is the same ignorant ass that thought Cavs GM Chris Grant should have been fired since he wasn't able to resign LeQuitter.

BR1986FB;954476 wrote:I stopped reading right here. If you can't see what he's done for this much improved defense through the draft (Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard), free agency (Young, Fujita) and trades (Mitchell, Brown, Gocong) you're not paying attention. By my count, that's 9 of the 11 starters right there.

His defense is the ONLY thing respectable about this team right now besides Phil Dawson.

Can't exactly build BOTH the offense AND defense in two drafts when you're as talent depleted as this team.

I expect him to draft heavily on offense in 2012 and sprinkle in a few more key free agents to fill out the roster.

I didn't say he's done a bad job. I am just hesitant to give him too much credit. The AFC North is loaded and with the way Cincinnati is building, Cleveland needs to keep up. All the teams in the conference are built around defense, but you still have to be able to score.

thedynasty1998;954151 wrote:Yea I would be hesitant to give Heckert too much credit. Haden is a stud and I like Phil Taylor. But they really need to start improving the roster. It's great to get guys who can contribute, but eventually you need difference makers.

Just quit posting you really are an idiot. You realize there is more to a draft than the first rd? How about Jaball sheard, he is in the running for DROY. SMH, if you were a real fan you would know who he is. I don't get why you are posting after you said you don't care about the Browns and you are no longer a fan. GTFO with your spewed bullshit. The Browns could trade their 7th rd pick for Drew Brees, and you would troll and say something about you are not impressed with Heckert because he gave away a draft pick.

Playing Madden doesn't give you a knowledgable view of the NFL failnasty.

like_that;954541 wrote:The Browns could trade their 7th rd pick for Drew Brees, and you would troll and say something about you are not impressed with Heckert because he gave away a draft pick.

No its because Brees is over 30 yrs old. /trollnasty bs

thedynasty1998;954161 wrote:I don't get the fascination with him. I'm not ready to write him off, but I don't know what moves he's made that would be considered spectacular.

go fuck yourself. im done with anything you post, will not respond or listen again.

I think you have to be blind to not see what good Heckert has done.

DeyDurkie5;954923 wrote:go **** yourself. im done with anything you post, will not respond or listen again.

Is he even a Browns fan? I have "selective reading" on these boards. I usually just scroll through and find the posters, i.e. BR, CoA, etc. that actually contribute to a conversation based on knowledge and facts, and skip the idiots who know nothing about football.

I'm not sure how Ward has regressed? He's 3rd on the team in total tackles, a sack, 2 tackles for loss, 3 passes defended, and a forced fumble. He's never been very good in pass coverage, but personally I think he's getting a little better. He probably won't lead the team in tackles like he did his ROOKIE year, but that's because the entire defense has stepped-up this season. They're a top five defense right now, and he's a big part of the reason why.

I really - really - don't understand why thedynasty1998, or anyone else for that matter, has completely given-up on McCoy. He has looked terrible this year, I do agree on that, but the ENTIRE offense has looked down right shitty all season. I think a lot of what's wrong with McCoy can be fixed with coaching and sufficeint time with Coach Shurmur and the rest of the offense during the off-season. I mean, think about his first two years in the league? He gets the short end of the stick with Mangini, then he's prepared to start the season as the team's undoubted leader, and the lockout comes along and screws everything up. He had about a month to get comfortable with his new head coach. Sure he had a copy of the playbook (hence the "Camp Colt" sessions) but studying a playbook and seeing it live are two totally different things. He has no playmakers on offense, his best offensive weapon has been a little bitch all season (Hillis) and his back-up (Hardesty) has been what we though he'd be - rusty (coming off a season-ending injury) and he's prone to injury. His receivers aren't where they need to be, and his o-line has been a mess all season long, as well as the playcalling.

But I guess you're right, sitting at 3-4 and still within striking distance in the AFC North at the halfway point doesn't mean jack. McCoy sucks, let's start a petition to have McCoy and Heckert removed from the organization. When they ask why, we'll tell them because THEdynasty1998 doesn't see McCoy as a starter, and Heckert's ability to evaluate talent is suspect, despite bringing 9 of 11 starters that have had the Browns defense ranked in the top ten in the NFL all year long.

dynasty - what an idiot! I'm a firm believer in that if you don't know jack shit about what you're saying, then keep your mouth shut for christ sake. If you decide not to, don't be surprised when have the population of the OC exposes you for your lack of knowledge. Don't you have a Kobe poster to go beat-off too or something?

OhioStatePride2003;955073 wrote:Is he even a Browns fan? I have "selective reading" on these boards. I usually just scroll through and find the posters, i.e. BR, CoA, etc. that actually contribute to a conversation based on knowledge and facts, and skip the idiots who know nothing about football.

I'm not sure how Ward has regressed? He's 3rd on the team in total tackles, a sack, 2 tackles for loss, 3 passes defended, and a forced fumble. He's never been very good in pass coverage, but personally I think he's getting a little better. He probably won't lead the team in tackles like he did his ROOKIE year, but that's because the entire defense has stepped-up this season. They're a top five defense right now, and he's a big part of the reason why.

I really - really - don't understand why thedynasty1998, or anyone else for that matter, has completely given-up on McCoy. He has looked terrible this year, I do agree on that, but the ENTIRE offense has looked down right shitty all season. I think a lot of what's wrong with McCoy can be fixed with coaching and sufficeint time with Coach Shurmur and the rest of the offense during the off-season. I mean, think about his first two years in the league? He gets the short end of the stick with Mangini, then he's prepared to start the season as the team's undoubted leader, and the lockout comes along and screws everything up. He had about a month to get comfortable with his new head coach. Sure he had a copy of the playbook (hence the "Camp Colt" sessions) but studying a playbook and seeing it live are two totally different things. He has no playmakers on offense, his best offensive weapon has been a little bitch all season (Hillis) and his back-up (Hardesty) has been what we though he'd be - rusty (coming off a season-ending injury) and he's prone to injury. His receivers aren't where they need to be, and his o-line has been a mess all season long, as well as the playcalling.

But I guess you're right, sitting at 3-4 and still within striking distance in the AFC North at the halfway point doesn't mean jack. McCoy sucks, let's start a petition to have McCoy and Heckert removed from the organization. When they ask why, we'll tell them because THEdynasty1998 doesn't see McCoy as a starter, and Heckert's ability to evaluate talent is suspect, despite bringing 9 of 11 starters that have had the Browns defense ranked in the top ten in the NFL all year long.

dynasty - what an idiot! I'm a firm believer in that if you don't know jack shit about what you're saying, then keep your mouth shut for christ sake. If you decide not to, don't be surprised when have the population of the OC exposes you for your lack of knowledge. Don't you have a Kobe poster to go beat-off too or something?

Great post.

-Dynasty is a complete moron, and just spews his typical bullshit. He is what we refer to him as a "passive-agressive troll." He is NOT a Browns fan. He claimed last year he was, and I called him out and said he is not a true fan, etc etc. He tried arguing with me that he was. Lets fast forward to present time, and he just recently told all Browns fans that he is not a fan any more and he is not going to waste his time being a fan. Not sure what thread it is (might be this one), but there are plenty of posters here who saw him say he is not a Browns fan. He is just a mentally weak pussy. It's hilarious how he just thinks only a few posters think his posts are complete bullshit, yet there is a growing number (by day) of posters who think his posts are just complete shit.

- I agree about Ward. WTF does he want out of him? Not every player is a all-pro player in the first 2 seasons. SMH idiot dynasty. As long as Ward stays healthy, he is going to be a key component to this defense.

-I also agree about McCoy. I'd like to see what he can do if/when they fix the line this off season, and what he can do with a real off season. There are plenty of QBs in this league that are currently succeeding because their running game is carrying them. Cleveland's running game is completely fucked up at this point, and all teams are doing is bringing the house on McCoy because the line won't give him more than 2 seconds to read the coverage.

lol its hilarious how the last 5 posts have been about how dynasty is a dipshit. I wonder if he will get the message and quit posting on Browns threads.

Wow OhioState. Haven't seen a pwning that bad in a while, straight posterized him. Reps.

Agreed 100% on McCoy. Had to evaluate when you can't even pretend to run the ball. Oline is porous and gives him no time. Not to mention his best target his a rookie WR who didn't play last season.

OhioStatePride2003;955073 wrote:But I guess you're right, sitting at 3-4 and still within striking distance in the AFC North at the halfway point doesn't mean jack.

When the teams you've beaten are a combined 2-20, and two of them are the only two winless teams in the NFL, it doesn't mean jack. And the Browns aren't in striking distance, let's not kid ourselves. The other 3 teams in the division are on pace to finish with as many losses as the Browns already have.

BR1986FB;954476 wrote:If you can't see what he's done for this much improved defense through the draft (Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard), free agency (Young, Fujita) and trades (Mitchell, Brown, Gocong) you're not paying attention.

And if you can't see how much the Browns opponents have played into those improved numbers then neither are you.

The Browns have played the 3rd easiest schedule in the NFL. The defense is top 5 in numbers only. Does anyone honestly think this is a legit top 5, or even top 10, defense?

Total offense/Scoring offense:

Cinci - 22nd/12th
Indy - 30th/30th
Miami - 21st/29th
Tennessee - 25th/22nd
Oakland - 12th/16th
Seattle - 31st/27th
San Fran - 23rd/6th

We have the Rams and Jags (the worst 2 scoring offenses in the NFL) coming up, so the numbers will continue to look good. But that's only 1/7 opponents in the top 20 in the league offensively to this point.

I think Heckert is a good GM, but (like I said) it's way too early to be praising what he's done, because this is still a bad team that needs upgrades in a lot of places, including spots he's brought players in at. Replacing terrible players with average players (and let's not pretend Young, Brown, Mitchell, Fujita, Patterson, etc. are anything more than serviceable players) doesn't really do anything for me. I don't want the Browns to be average.

You don't need an all-pro at every spot, but it doesn't do any good to bring players in and then still badly need to upgrade the position you just filled (which is the position the Browns are in at OLB and CB at minimum, probably S and DE as well).

Taylor, Sheard, and Little have all been OK this year but nothing great, even by rookie standards. Being t-12 in the league in sacks is a testament to the D-line (especially in comparison to what the Browns pass rush usually looks like), but it's still middle of the pack. We're 26th in the NFL in run D.

The pass D has been the strength, but look at the quarterbacks faced:

1) Andy Dalton for the first half of his first career game
2) Bruce Gradkowski
3) Kerry Collins fresh out of retirement. So bad he's been benched for Curtis Painter.
4) Chad Henne
5) Matt Hasselbeck (threw 3 TD passes and we got crushed)
6) Jason Campbell/Kyle Boller
7) Charlie Whitehurst
8) Alex Smith

Would it be possible for the pass defense NOT to look good at this point?

Just not sold yet. Sorry.

Mulva I don't see you taking the Defenses we've faced into account when discussing the Browns offense. Guess it doesn't fit your argument.

Also I've been paying very close attn to Taylor and Sheard. By my accounts and the experts over at OBR they've played very well this season, by any standard, not just a rookie standard. Little has been ok, I'll agree there but I think in a yr or two he'll be a very solid option. WRs take time and have been known to be one of the hardest positions to transfer into the Pro game.

I'm not blaming the other teams for our defense because you have to play the schedule given. I've never seen someone write an article about how the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens weren't actually as good as thought because of the offenses they faced in their season, or the reverse. I havent seen anyone write that the Jags defense under Mike Smith should be thought of higher because their numbers were skewed since they played Manning and Andre Johnson twice a year. Bottom line you are what your record shows, the numbers and my eyes agree, the Browns defense is solid.

Commander of Awesome;955222 wrote:Mulva I don't see you taking the Defenses we've faced into account when discussing the Browns offense. Guess it doesn't fit your argument.

Nobody was discussing the Browns offense and it wasn't a part of my argument at all. The post I quoted was about the defensive players brought in, and I'm pretty sure everyone is in total agreement that our offense sucks. By the way, the Bengals defensive numbers have been pumped up by playing the same caliber of offenses thus far too. It isn't just the Browns.

You want the numbers of the defenses we've played though? Fine:

Scoring defense/total defense:

Cinci 4/4
Indy 32/31
Miami 23/23
Tenn 11/18
Oakland 27/25
Seattle 18/13
San Fran 1/10

Way more impressive than the offenses we've faced, but that's still 2 very good defenses, 3 very bad ones, and 2 middle of the pack. Make whatever you want out of those numbers.

Back to the defense - If you really don't think that after bringing in Fujita, Gocong, Young, Brown, and Patterson that we aren't still in desperate need of at least 1 OLB, a CB to start across from Haden, and a safety who can actually cover to pair with Ward I would say you're crazy. Just because they're upgrades over the shit we had previously doesn't mean they're getting the team to contender status.

I agree we need an upgrade at OLBer, FS (jury is out on my about Young, doesn't play enough and I think Mike Adams is serviceable), and another CB but that's a lot less than we needed going into this season. Dline depth is another thing I think we lack. However Rome wasn't built in a day and it takes time. I think Heckert has done a great job thus far at addressing our defense. Now its time to address our offense. Which I think we'll see this offseason. I expect us to be competitive for a division title next season even though I don't see it this season.

BTW the jags picked up Failbiskie. lol lol lol

NFL re-draft.....Hmmmm, our shitty 1st & 2nd round defensive linemen, that Heckert has no clue about drafting, moved UP....

http://m.nfl.com/news/09000d5d823b59dd/newton-would-still-be-top-pick-but-other-qbs-rise-in-redraft/

Commander of Awesome;955427 wrote:BTW the jags picked up Failbiskie. lol lol lol

Chicago Bliss of the Lingerie Football League turned him down....