^^^^ To play football you must meet a minimum requirement of grades and attendance! These arent the kids I am talking about! A publics minimum requirements and a privates minimum requirements for enrollment arent the same! The lowest of the low is who I am arguing about, the kid with the 0.0 gpa, attends about half the time and constantly in trouble! They arent walking the hallways at privates, therefore they arent playing enrollment wise with a public of similar size.

redstreak one;643666 wrote:^^^^ To play football you must meet a minimum requirement of grades and attendance! These arent the kids I am talking about! A publics minimum requirements and a privates minimum requirements for enrollment arent the same! The lowest of the low is who I am arguing about, the kid with the 0.0 gpa, attends about half the time and constantly in trouble! They arent walking the hallways at privates, therefore they arent playing enrollment wise with a public of similar size.

Private schools also get kids that become ineligible to play sports.

My father was right, never get into an battle of wits with an unarmed man!

redstreak one;643724 wrote:My father was right, never get into an battle of wits with an unarmed man!

Did your father also tell you that you would be better off to remain silent and thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt?

redstreak one;643666 wrote:^^^^ To play football you must meet a minimum requirement of grades and attendance! These arent the kids I am talking about! A publics minimum requirements and a privates minimum requirements for enrollment arent the same! The lowest of the low is who I am arguing about, the kid with the 0.0 gpa, attends about half the time and constantly in trouble! They arent walking the hallways at privates, therefore they arent playing enrollment wise with a public of similar size.

I understand what you're saying. I really do understand that. But the current proposal does not address that.

rmolin73;643479 wrote:That's a first time I've ever been called a bigot. Dude I grew up in Valdosta, Georgia and we lived in the hood my parents still do they refuse to leave my dad is stubborn. We were no where near rich so yeah I can speak about what it means to be an urban youth because I was one! I had tons of friends that were athletes that decided that the dope game was better than playing football but since our program was established and we had a great coaching staff we continued to excel. So what is your response now Viking? Or are you just being a pool hall punk?

Several things. Valdosta is a city of less than 50,000. It is more like Massillon, OH than Akron or Cleveland. Some of the urban factors are there, but not to the degree that they effect larger urban schools. Your high school has a swim team. Not very many urban high schools have a swim team. You should know that an urban type school has to overcome a lot more challenges than most private schools or suburban schools. Anybody can be a bigot. You probably aren't. However, it seems like you have lost touch with reality.

Viking;644328 wrote: However, it seems like you have lost touch with reality.

Irony is ironic.

Viking;644328 wrote:Several things. Valdosta is a city of less than 50,000. It is more like Massillon, OH than Akron or Cleveland. Some of the urban factors are there, but not to the degree that they effect larger urban schools. Your high school has a swim team. Not very many urban high schools have a swim team. You should know that an urban type school has to overcome a lot more challenges than most private schools or suburban schools. Anybody can be a bigot. You probably aren't. However, it seems like you have lost touch with reality.

Yet you still know nothing about me so good job researching my high school. It is hilarious when people are wrong they try and find a different angle to make themselves look good. Whoop de fucking do my high school has a swim team. That does not erase the fact that there are urban factors that are there. Just because my father pushed me to get good grades and go to college I have lost touch with reality? At this point it appears you will come up with anything to make yourself sound good well pal it isn't working. You still come off looking like an asshole in my book because like an ass you assumed I was white now you are attempting to find an excuse as to why you called me a bigot.

rmolin73;644726 wrote:It is hilarious when people are wrong they try and find a different angle to make themselves look good.

Even funnier when people are wrong and then they completely ignore the fact that they were proven wrong.

Right Viking?

Still no explanation for Campbell going 9-1 with 72% of the students on free lunch, huh? Kind of blows your whole theory out of the water, doesn't it?

first off sherm lets be realistic with your campbell comparisons...campbell went 9-1 on a weak schedule plain and simple. that was pretty evident after they were one and done, yes it was a good season but the way things are currently set up you will see public schools with great regular season records not do much in the playoffs. its the hubbard formula. try to build confidence in your program by scheduling weak teams that will win some games and roll the dice in the playoffs. the way the catholic schools rape us of our best players starting in the 8th grade, you will never see the type of run we saw in the late 80s to early 90s at campbell, but you will see these catholic schools continue to win with campbell kids they recruited. keep campbell out of your comparisons. how bout this? you can use campbell as your pawn in this argument when fecko stops calling my nephew and his friend recruiting them to mooney! His mother is tired of both mooney and ursuline bothering a 13 year old kid! this isnt national signing day.

omemorialhigh;644851 wrote:first off sherm lets be realistic with your campbell comparisons...campbell went 9-1 on a weak schedule plain and simple. that was pretty evident after they were one and done, yes it was a good season but the way things are currently set up you will see public schools with great regular season records not do much in the playoffs. its the hubbard formula. try to build confidence in your program by scheduling weak teams that will win some games and roll the dice in the playoffs. the way the catholic schools rape us of our best players starting in the 8th grade, you will never see the type of run we saw in the late 80s to early 90s at campbell, but you will see these catholic schools continue to win with campbell kids they recruited. keep campbell out of your comparisons. how bout this? you can use campbell as your pawn in this argument when fecko stops calling my nephew and his friend recruiting them to mooney! His mother is tired of both mooney and ursuline bothering a 13 year old kid! this isnt national signing day.

First of all, I will use whatever comparison I want in this discussion. Yes, Campbell had a great record with a pretty crummy schedule. That doesn't change the fact that the argument was that schools with a lot of free lunch students can't win. And Campbell was in a region in which there wasn't a single private school that made the playoffs. So don't try and pull the "evil private card" with Campbell losing in the playoffs this year.

Second of all, if Fecko is calling your nephew and his friend, you should call the OHSAA as soon as possible and report it. Produce the phone records, the voicemails, record the conversations and turn it in. If (and that's a big if) it is true, then it's an absolute shame. But I'm willing to bet everything I have that you won't call in to the OHSAA because it's not really happening and you would have no way to back up your claim.

Edit: The only kid I remember at Mooney from Campbell was Derrell Johnson-Koulianos. I've said it before, but he was supposed to be moving and was deciding between Poland and Mooney. So don't make it like Mooney scouted the kid and lured him away. Any other kids from Campbell Middle Schools that have gone on to play for Mooney? Because I wouldn't really call 1 kid leaving "raping you of your best players."

^^^ the spinmeister of he said she said. Change is com'in, sherm.

actually i know a few that left campbell for mooney...george lyras remember him? how bout his younger brother? yes and djk did leave...what do you have to say about that house in poland they used to get the clearance to transfer to mooney? o wait it doesnt exist!!! its still a piece of land with no house! shady! and fecko is calling!!! but does the kids mother want the kid to be the center of a huge controversy that will undoubtedly give mooney a black eye...along with all the media coverage that will follow it? does any parent want their child brought to the forefront of that type of controversy? No. but you dont know the kids family life so you have no right to comment. you have no idea the life this kid has had. you dont know anything about campbell except the things people tell you, because your too big of a fruit to ever even walk in the city limits. Id love to see your spoonfed pretty boy butt get eaten alive. You wouldnt make it 15 minutes in this city with your polo and khakis. lifes tough here. no b$#%#@ allowed. so please dont comment on these kids...they have been subject to more temptations and hardships then you will be in a lifetime. So no im not calling the ohsaa because i wont do that to my nephew...he just wants left alone. so please relay fecko a message...it needs to stop. and if you really really really think that your beloved alma mater doesnt call our kids then your living in a fantasy land and id love to meet you there so please give me the directions. Please stop being so naive. i know your a young kid but you cant be that naive. just because you get away with it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

If Mooney and Ursuline are both bothering a 13 year old and his friend, you have to wonder, how many other kids have they bothered to get them to play at their schools over these past several seasons ?

how much time you have to wonder? a year or two?

omemorialhigh;644912 wrote:actually i know a few that left campbell for mooney...george lyras remember him? how bout his younger brother? yes and djk did leave...what do you have to say about that house in poland they used to get the clearance to transfer to mooney? o wait it doesnt exist!!! its still a piece of land with no house! shady! and fecko is calling!!! but does the kids mother want the kid to be the center of a huge controversy that will undoubtedly give mooney a black eye...along with all the media coverage that will follow it? does any parent want their child brought to the forefront of that type of controversy? No. but you dont know the kids family life so you have no right to comment. you have no idea the life this kid has had. you dont know anything about campbell except the things people tell you, because your too big of a fruit to ever even walk in the city limits. Id love to see your spoonfed pretty boy butt get eaten alive. You wouldnt make it 15 minutes in this city with your polo and khakis. lifes tough here. no b$#%#@ allowed. so please dont comment on these kids...they have been subject to more temptations and hardships then you will be in a lifetime. So no im not calling the ohsaa because i wont do that to my nephew...he just wants left alone. so please relay fecko a message...it needs to stop. and if you really really really think that your beloved alma mater doesnt call our kids then your living in a fantasy land and id love to meet you there so please give me the directions. Please stop being so naive. i know your a young kid but you cant be that naive. just because you get away with it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

You're right. I'm just a preppy suburb kid who has no idea what city life is like. I'm a big fruit, and I'd be so scared to go into big bad Campbell! /sarcasm

You tell me that I don't know this kid's family life so I have no right to comment. You don't know a damn thing about me, yet you have all these preconceived notions about me because I went to Mooney. It's nice to see that you just had to resort to poorly put together characterizations based on the fact that I'm a private school guy. You don't know how I grew up. You don't know my friends, or where I hung out. So why don't you just shut up.

Like I said, if Fecko is calling it's completely wrong and it needs to be dealt with. The OHSAA wouldn't release the name of the student in question, so why not call? Again, I really don't believe Fecko is calling. And I say that for two reasons. First of all, people always have a story about Fecko calling a kid that they know...but nobody ever wants to drop the dime. They will bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch about recruiting and cheating. But when it comes time to provide the proof, all they have is stories. Second of all, if you are the head coach of a high profile school like Cardinal Mooney you are not calling kids on the phone unless you are a complete moron! The OHSAA would love to find a reason to hammer a school like Mooney. Say what you want about Fecko, but he's not dumb enough to call a kid himself and risk getting in trouble.

And I'm not Fecko's secretary. I won't relay anything to him. You know where he works...why don't you let him know yourself. Then again, he would actually have to be doing what you claim for you to confront him. So I'm assuming you won't ever be at Mooney after school to talk with Fecko.

rmolin73, please try and make a post without cursing. I'll pray for your depraved soul.

Sherm, Buchtel is a school with an over 50% free lunch population. They lost the D III title game. The obstacles that that team had to overcome on a daily basis can't be compared to the hurdles that most private schools have to deal with.

This proposal will pass.

Viking;645841 wrote:rmolin73, please try and make a post without cursing. I'll pray for your depraved soul.

Sherm, Buchtel is a school with an over 50% free lunch population. They lost the D III title game. The obstacles that that team had to overcome on a daily basis can't be compared to the hurdles that most private schools have to deal with.

This proposal will pass.

I don't think anyone is questioning that they have obstacles. People are questioning whether or not football ability is one of those obstacles. Look at the scholarship offers for some of the best programs in the country. Many of those kids come from programs that have high free lunch rates. In the Tressel era, Glenville kids have received many more scholarships than schools with lower reduced free lunch rates. The NFL is full of players who came from very poor backgrounds. Do you have any evidence that connects football ability with family income?

Viking;645841 wrote: Sherm, Buchtel is a school with an over 50% free lunch population. They lost the D III title game. The obstacles that that team had to overcome on a daily basis can't be compared to the hurdles that most private schools have to deal with.

Thank you for proving my point for me. A school with over half the kids on free lunches made it all the way to the title game (beating Mooney on the way!). So please explain why the kids should act as a divider and potentially move Buchtel (a team in the D3 title game) into a lower division.

As I've said before, I'm all for a multiplier for schools that get kids from outside of their feeder schools. But the free lunch and tradition factor parts of this "equation" are complete BS.

Viking;645841 wrote:rmolin73, please try and make a post without cursing. I'll pray for your depraved soul.

Sherm, Buchtel is a school with an over 50% free lunch population. They lost the D III title game. The obstacles that that team had to overcome on a daily basis can't be compared to the hurdles that most private schools have to deal with.

This proposal will pass.

My depraved soul thats a new one. So I go from pool hall punk, bigot, out of touch with reality, and depraved in your book. So let me say this without profanity you are full of it. You have yet to come up with any sound evidence to support your theories and when questioned you say nothing except "change is coming", or "the votes are here".

Please answer Al Bundy's question? How is Buchtel so effective inspite of their many obstacles. What about Glenville like he mentioned they have 63% of their students that are eligible for free or reduced lunches. What about Maple Heights 60% on free lunches, or Trotwood Madison 59%. Like Al is saying ability is ability there is a high per centage of both college and NFL players that came from poor high schools. So where is the evidence that football ability is connected to income?

Here is the formula.
http://ohsaa.org/schools/CompetitiveBalanceGuide.pdf

This would be and example for Delphos St John.

School Boundary Factor
Boys 102 x 10%= +10
Girls 107 X 10% = +11

Socioeconomic Factor
This school has 20 (?) students who are on the free lunch program.
— 10 percent of 20 = ‐2 (subtracted from the “athletic count&#8221
Tradition Factor
• Boys: this school’s football team reached the state tournament one year
and was state champion two other years during the past four‐year cycle.

— 10 percent of 102 = +10 (2009)
— 10 percent of 102 = +10 (2008)
— 10 percent of 102 = +10 (2010)
— Total Enrollment Addition = +30

Girls: this school’s basketball team reached the state finals during the past four‐year
cycle.
— 10 percent of 107 = +11 (2007)
— Total Enrollment Addition = +11

DSJ’s Athletic Count
Football: 102 + 10 – 2 + 30 = 140 (This school was a Division VI school. The increase in enrollment would
move it to Division V.)
Basketball: 107 + 11 – 2 + 11 = 127 (This school was a Division IV school. The increase in enrollment
would keep it in Division IV.)

That's a helluva lot of math to go through just to watch Ursuline and DSJ beat the shite out of the next higher division. :rolleyes:

When a school like Buchtel has the success that they do it is almost a miracle. If you don't understand all of the extra stresses that tthose kids deal with then you need to work or coach at an urban school.

This proposal is a step in the right dierction. It is going to pass (perhaps with a few modifications).

The OHSAA deserves a standing "O"!

Mooney's using the last numbers as a guide:

Boundary:
254 x 10% = +25
Free Lunch:
94 x 10% = -9
Tradition:
2007 - 254 x 10% = +25
2008 - 254 x 6% = +15
2009 - 254 x 10% = +25
2010 - 254 x 8% = +20

Final:
254 + 25 + 85 - 9 = 355 - Division 2

From the smallest D3 school to a midrange D2 school. Nothing like being punished for being good!

Mooney will be just fine and you know it. They aren't being punished. They are just headed to where they belong (well closer to where they belong).