Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Football ▸ Is it time for private schools to have theyre own playoffs in football
rmolin73's avatar

rmolin73

Senior Member

4,278 posts
Jan 21, 2011 5:38 PM
Sherm03 subtract 2010 I believe due to the counts only factoring the regional games and up. You also have to factor that there will be a lot of moves so after the calculations they will still have to do the divisional alignments.
Jan 21, 2011 5:38pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 21, 2011 6:02 PM
rmolin73;647365 wrote:Sherm03 subtract 2010 I believe due to the counts only factoring the regional games and up. You also have to factor that there will be a lot of moves so after the calculations they will still have to do the divisional alignments.

You're right. I misread the proposal where it says "appearances in state tournament" to mean appearances in the playoffs. So then...

Boundary:
254 x 10% = +25
Free Lunch:
94 x 10% = -9
Tradition:
2007 - 254 x 10% = +25
2008 - 254 x 6% = +15
2009 - 254 x 10% = +25
Total = +65

254 + 25 + 65 - 9 = 335

Staying in Division 3 (using the current alignment numbers of divisions).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 21, 2011 6:02pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 21, 2011 6:09 PM
rmolin73;647365 wrote:Sherm03 subtract 2010 I believe due to the counts only factoring the regional games and up. You also have to factor that there will be a lot of moves so after the calculations they will still have to do the divisional alignments.

I see. I misread the "appearances in the state tournament" to mean playoff appearances. But 2010 would still count as Mooney was in the regional final game against Buchtel. But the numbers should be adjusted, and 2008 would not count as Mooney lost to Steubenville before the regional final game that year. So Mooney's numbers would look like this, then:

Boundary:
254 x 10% = +25
Free Lunch:
94 x 10% = -9
Tradition:
2007 - 254 x 10% = +25
2009 - 254 x 10% = +25
2010 - 254 x 6% = +15
Total = +65

Final Count:
254 + 25 + 65 - 9 = 335

Still in Division 3 (using the current division alignment)!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

All that means though is that the OHSAA will change the division structure so that Mooney falls into D2, anyways.

Embracing that change though!
Jan 21, 2011 6:09pm
A

aged jock

Member

94 posts
Jan 21, 2011 6:18 PM
Because public schools like Anderson get screwed in this formula, which obviously wasn't the intent, I have a better proposal. Let's just allow all public schools to play with one extra player in the game at all times. In football, the public school gets to play with 12 and the Catholic school only gets 11. In basketball, public gets 6, Catholic gets 5. In baseball, public gets 10, Catholic gets 9. That would "level the playing field" in some peoples' minds, wouldn't it? It's a lot more sensical than this mess.

Some can't compete so they change the rules. Pure and simple. Especially the "tradition" part of the formula.

It's OK, though. My Alter Knights will compete no matter where you put them. Because they're focused on being the best they can be.

Alter doesn't formally have a district, because years ago CJ didn't have a district and were poaching in Alter's and Carroll's districts. So they took off the districts, because Alter and Carroll weren't taking public school kids away from them (still aren't), and wanted to compete for students in CJ's area.

As a practical matter, though, Alter doesn't have any students outside of Montgomery, Greene and Warren counties. So that's Alter's district. Does that count? What if a private school has a district that overlaps with another private school's district? We certainly have that situation in the Dayton area. Maybe we just define our districts that way. CJ gets Montgomery, Darke, Greene and Miami counties. Carroll gets Montgomery and Greene. Alter gets Montgomery, Greene and Warren. Works for me!
Jan 21, 2011 6:18pm
A

aged jock

Member

94 posts
Jan 21, 2011 6:23 PM
Oh, and I forgot. Fenwick gets Montgomery, Warren, Butler and Preble counties.
Believe it or not, those are the Catholic schools in the area, charging thousands per year for each student, including athletes, to attend. Four schools for all of Warren, Montgomery, Preble, Darke, Miami and Greene counties. There must be at least 40 public schools in that area, all giving full scholarships to every student. Good thing we had to level the playing field.
Jan 21, 2011 6:23pm
O

omemorialhigh

Senior Member

379 posts
Jan 21, 2011 8:22 PM
at least mooney wont drop down to d4 which is a real possibility this upcoming year...they may stay in d3 for now, but you are not considering how this will affect all the other schools. and on to another point made about dsj about them and ursuline beating up on d5...thats assuming ursuline would stay in d5 which is probably not going to happen.
Jan 21, 2011 8:22pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 21, 2011 8:31 PM
omemorialhigh;647468 wrote:at least mooney wont drop down to d4 which is a real possibility this upcoming year...they may stay in d3 for now, but you are not considering how this will affect all the other schools. and on to another point made about dsj about them and ursuline beating up on d5...thats assuming ursuline would stay in d5 which is probably not going to happen.

You're right. It's good that Mooney won't be in D4 next year. Because with this...Ursuline will be in D4 (which is what fish82 was alluding to when he said a lot of math to watch Ursuline and DSJ beat the shit out of the next higher divisions).

And you're right, I'm interested how it will affect other schools. Anyone have the enrollment numbers for Coldwater, St. Henry, and Versailles?
Jan 21, 2011 8:31pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 21, 2011 8:49 PM
Nevermind...I found Coldwater's. I'm pretty sure that Versailles would stay the same since they haven't made a lot of noise recently in the playoffs and that's the part that really screws schools over. And St. Henry would probably stay the same as well.

But for Coldwater...

OE Multiplier:
161 x 6% = +10
Free Lunch Divider:
151 x 10% = -15
Tradition Multiplier:
2007: 161 x 10% = +16
2008: 161 x 6% = +10
2009: 161 x 10% = +16
2010: 161 x 10% = +16

Total Count:
161 + 10 + 58 - 15 = 214
This is using the 151 number for free lunches from the link provided earlier. I'm pretty sure that's for the whole district and not just the high school. But I'm using it anyways.
So Coldwater goes from D5 up to D4. Good luck Coldwater!
Jan 21, 2011 8:49pm
O

omemorialhigh

Senior Member

379 posts
Jan 21, 2011 10:11 PM
sherm can you do campbells numbers? you seem to know where to get all the pertinent information...
Jan 21, 2011 10:11pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 21, 2011 11:45 PM
omemorialhigh;647578 wrote:sherm can you do campbells numbers? you seem to know where to get all the pertinent information...

Sure thing.

Campbell Boys Numbers:
No open enrollment, so:
217 x 0% = +0
Free Lunch:
300 x 10% = -30
Tradition Factor:
No regional final appearances in 2007, 2008, 2009, or 2010...so:
217 x 0% = +0

217 - 30 = 187
Campbell stays in D4.

I do think it's weird that they are using the total number of free lunches. This isn't the first time that the total number of free lunches was higher than the number of boys. Unless I'm misreading something, it's an odd idea.

So basically, the girls in the school that are on the free lunch affect the position of the school in football? Seems odd to me.
Jan 21, 2011 11:45pm
J

jake1971

Junior Member

10 posts
Jan 22, 2011 12:59 AM
I think Clint Eastwood said it best in Heartbreak Ridge, and I quote, "Its a cluster **** sir".
Jan 22, 2011 12:59am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Jan 22, 2011 8:29 AM
Why is the no border open enrollment multiplier for public schools 6% while the no boundaries multiplier for private schools 10%?? Souldn't they be they same thing? Aren't they the same thing??
Jan 22, 2011 8:29am
5knots's avatar

5knots

Senior Member

1,474 posts
Jan 22, 2011 8:43 AM
I was told that a school can only move 1 division maximum. Personally I would like to try it out. It definitely has to help the V and VI schools and the majority of those are small town schools. How fun for those communities to have a better chance to at least play another small town school. It is good for the little guys. The rest of the divisions it will mix things up a bit which should be fun if nothing else. And yes.....it will be a little tougher for Ursuline even if they only go to DIV. I remember a juggernaut UHS team that ran into little old Orrville some years back...in DIV. UHS and DSJ will still be great teams but you cannot argue the competition will be a tad more balanced.
Jan 22, 2011 8:43am
V

Viking

Senior Member

350 posts
Jan 22, 2011 9:43 AM
Sherm, did you stay warm last night by embracing the change?!?

This proposal will pass. It is a step in the right direction.
Jan 22, 2011 9:43am
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 22, 2011 11:37 AM
Finally found a school that drops a division! No wonder why Viking is all about this proposal!

Akron North
OE Factor:
365 x 6% = +22
Free Lunch Factor:
556 x 10% = -56
Tradition Factor:
None

365 + 22 - 56 = 331

Welcome to Division 3 Akron North! If you are lucky enough to make it to the playoffs, you'll get to meet up with powerhouse Mooney and 2-time D4 runner-up Chagrin Falls. But you don't have to worry about that because you will probably still go 0-10 and not have to see these teams!
Jan 22, 2011 11:37am
V

Viking

Senior Member

350 posts
Jan 22, 2011 11:47 AM
It looks like all APS schools including Buchtel will drop a division in football and basketball.
Jan 22, 2011 11:47am
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 22, 2011 12:07 PM
Viking;647923 wrote:It looks like all APS schools including Buchtel will drop a division in football and basketball.

Wrong.

Buchtel:
305 x 6% = +18
548 x 10% = -54
2010: 305 x 10% = +31

305 + 18 + 31 - 54 = 300

Buchtel stays in D3.
Jan 22, 2011 12:07pm
O

omemorialhigh

Senior Member

379 posts
Jan 22, 2011 12:28 PM
i was wondering the same thing sherm...i didnt know if it was the total number of free lunches or just the boys that receive free lunch. what is the cutoff for d5 as of the last alignment...just curious. campbell will eventually be d5, their numbers are dwindling daily, its not a matter of if but when.
Jan 22, 2011 12:28pm
O

omemorialhigh

Senior Member

379 posts
Jan 22, 2011 12:30 PM
i just noticed your number for free lunches is 300 for campbell...this doesnt seem accurate to me. that may be free and reduced lunches...but i thought the formula only took free lunches. i could be wrong.
Jan 22, 2011 12:30pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 22, 2011 12:31 PM
Steubenville:
270 x 6% = +16
317 x 10% = -32
2007: 270 x 6% = +16
2008: 270 x 10% = +27
2009: 270 x 8% = +22

270 + 16 + 65 - 32 = 319

Steubenville stays in D3, too. Mooney, Steubenville, Buchtel, Chagrin Falls...D3 would be absolutely ridiculous!!
Jan 22, 2011 12:31pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 22, 2011 12:33 PM
omemorialhigh;647970 wrote:i just noticed your number for free lunches is 300 for campbell...this doesnt seem accurate to me. that may be free and reduced lunches...but i thought the formula only took free lunches. i could be wrong.

According to this site: [url]ftp://ftp.ode.state.oh.us/MR81/MR81_October_2009/MR81_October_2009-rev.txt[/url]

Their free lunch count is 300 and the reduced lunch count is 37. But the numbers for free lunch are from 2009. The October 2010 numbers haven't been released.
Jan 22, 2011 12:33pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 22, 2011 12:45 PM
Maple Heights:
487 x 0% = +0
617 x 10% = -62
2009: 487 x 10% = +49
2010: 487 x 10% = +49

487 + 98 - 62 = 523

I'm sure Maple Heights is going to be voting this down because I'm sure this D2 powerhouse doesn't want to get pushed up into D1.
Jan 22, 2011 12:45pm
O

omemorialhigh

Senior Member

379 posts
Jan 22, 2011 2:18 PM
i gotya sherm...i trust your numbers. what are the cutoffs for d5?
Jan 22, 2011 2:18pm
sherm03's avatar

sherm03

I go balls deep.

7,349 posts
Jan 22, 2011 2:29 PM
D5 is 125-176.
Jan 22, 2011 2:29pm
V

Viking

Senior Member

350 posts
Jan 22, 2011 3:16 PM
The cut off numbers might change. Also, open enrollment numbers won't act as a multiplier if the school loses more kids than they pick up. I'm pretty sure that Buchtel oses more kids than they gain.

High school administrators are voting, not coaches. This proposal is far from perfect, but it is a beginning. it will pass. I'll bet a MVR dinner on it.
Jan 22, 2011 3:16pm