The 4th Amendment still applies. The search has to be reasonable.

The more I read about the nature of the search, the TSA is blowing it and Homeland Securitiy needs to get a clear message to the citizens. This new pat-down appears to be significantly more invasive than the old pat down, and even if you go through the full body scan they can still give you the pat-down. They need to explain why this is necessary.

Additionally, I have no idea how many more delays this halfassed scheme is going to create. Going through security is incovenient enough.

I Wear Pants wrote:Yes. My ability to drive my car isn't a right but if I had to get felt up before I could drive it there would be something wrong happening.

Just because something isn't a right doesn't mean that there can't be privacy concerns.

self serving opposition to nessary steps to protect Americans from terrorist attacks

ts1227;567037 wrote:Another thing to consider is whether we consider the ability to travel via plane a right or a privilege, and then gauge how the standards line up with that view... because if it's not a right, then is there really anything wrong happening?

Do you honestly think planes are the only targets of terrorists? What about the mall, the movie theaters, the walmarts, etc that have thousands of people in them every single day? Is it a right to go shopping, to watch a movie, etc? How come there aren't TSA agents and security screenings to go to these places? Where is it written in the constitution that these things are rights? It's the same things as flying, isn't it? Would everyone be OK with getting screened at every single place like this just to go shopping or watch a movie?

isadore;567099 wrote:self serving opposition to nessary steps to protect Americans from terrorist attacks

So you support mandatory cavity searches before boarding planes then? Because that's where the bombs are probably going to be hidden.

I would appreciate if you didn't call me a terrorist though. And don't say you didn't insinuate it because you implied that I somehow benefit from Americans being unsafe.

I'm also not going to get into some long and dragged out bickering match like you like to bait me into. If you reply with some ridiculous claim about me loving terrorists again I'm just going to add you to the ignore list which I probably should have done long ago.

tk421;567532 wrote:Do you honestly think planes are the only targets of terrorists? What about the mall, the movie theaters, the walmarts, etc that have thousands of people in them every single day? Is it a right to go shopping, to watch a movie, etc? How come there aren't TSA agents and security screenings to go to these places? Where is it written in the constitution that these things are rights? It's the same things as flying, isn't it? Would everyone be OK with getting screened at every single place like this just to go shopping or watch a movie?

Of course they would as long as the government tells them they're in danger.

See, this is what a complacent attitude and government nudging ends up as. PRIME example.

ts1227;567037 wrote:Another thing to consider is whether we consider the ability to travel via plane a right or a privilege, and then gauge how the standards line up with that view... because if it's not a right, then is there really anything wrong happening?

It's not a right, but these aren't the individual companies (Delta, AA, etc) putting people through this horse shit. If Delta wants to make people go through to this stuff before you can fly on their planes that is one thing. This is the federal government overstepping their bounds in the name of "safety."

tk421;567532 wrote:Do you honestly think planes are the only targets of terrorists? What about the mall, the movie theaters, the walmarts, etc that have thousands of people in them every single day? Is it a right to go shopping, to watch a movie, etc? How come there aren't TSA agents and security screenings to go to these places? Where is it written in the constitution that these things are rights? It's the same things as flying, isn't it? Would everyone be OK with getting screened at every single place like this just to go shopping or watch a movie?

Think airport measures like this are nuts? Wait until a 3 man team of suicide bombers hit a Wal-Mart on Black Friday. 1st guy goes to the middle of all the checkout lanes and sets off his bomb. As the survivors stream for doors, the other 2 guys are waiting.

On a more humurous note, somebody could make a killing selling "I got fondled at (insert airport name here)!

bigorangebuck22;568115 wrote:Think airport measures like this are nuts? Wait until a 3 man team of suicide bombers hit a Wal-Mart on Black Friday. 1st guy goes to the middle of all the checkout lanes and sets off his bomb. As the survivors stream for doors, the other 2 guys are waiting.

On a more humurous note, somebody could make a killing selling "I got fondled at (insert airport name here)!

That scenario will happen eventually. I just wonder if the same people who have no problem with being screened at the airport will put up with it at all the stores they go to everyday. After all, it's in the name of "safety".

bigorangebuck22;568115 wrote:On a more humurous note, somebody could make a killing selling "I got fondled at (insert airport name here)!

I might make an "I got Gate Raped at CVG" tshirt for my trip to Mexico in a few weeks.

Manhattan Buckeye;560965 wrote:Maybe I'm not getting this.

Why can't we have a metal detector and canine crews at all domestic airports?

Metal detector will catch the knives, boxcutters etc....dogs will sniff out the rest.

I certainly trust a German Shepherd over the $10.00/hr guy groping me...or for that matter the $12.00/hr person viewing my body image.

Now I don't like this, though I DO agree that there is nothing "illegal" about it. However, there ARE things that may/may not be able to be detected this way.

For example, what if I was carrying a ceramic knife? Metal detector won't catch that, but a dog probably wouldn't be trained to, either.

If they do move to cavity searches, then fewer people will fly, causing the airline industry to suffer economically.

At that point, the airlines will have to choose: Keep getting more invasive and suffer financially, or search for other security means.

Legally, I think it is up to them. The policy sucks, though, regardless of what side you're on.

jhay78;563010 wrote:If you really want the ACLU involved, carry a Bible through one of those checkpoints and "offend" someone. They'll jump all over that.

Wow what do we have here. Opposition to necessary protection. And where does it come from. Well one source is those sympathetic to our enemies that who see they have “ gorilla/brutal tactics that are their only real way to fight.” War that they are so justified in conducting because “Is everyone just supposed to bow to our will then?” “And we are the closest thing left to imperialists.”
So of course they are completely justified in killing a nation of “little Eichmans.”
Then we have those who feel so intruded upon by these necessary steps to protect us.
Even after Richard Reid and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. Even after 3000 Americans are dead because of a lack of airport security. Rather than a small inconvenience at the airport, they would prefer a domestic Lockerbie.

isadore;568593 wrote:Wow what do we have here. Opposition to necessary protection. And where does it come from. Well one source is those sympathetic to our enemies that who see they have “ gorilla/brutal tactics that are their only real way to fight.” War that they are so justified in conducting because “Is everyone just supposed to bow to our will then?” “And we are the closest thing left to imperialists.”
So of course they are completely justified in killing a nation of “little Eichmans.”
Then we have those who feel so intruded upon by these necessary steps to protect us.
Even after Richard Reid and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. Even after 3000 Americans are dead because of a lack of airport security. Rather than a small inconvenience at the airport, they would prefer a domestic Lockerbie.

This is neither necessary nor effective.

justincredible;568666 wrote:This is neither necessary nor effective.

at a time when national whining is overflowing, it is at least the first and in all probability the second.

isadore;568686 wrote:at a time when national whining is overflowing, it is at least the first and in all probability the second.

Yep, it is definitely necessary to treat every single person getting on an airplane as a terrorist. And hey, I hear they've confiscated a little weed and a few leathermans with the scans. I definitely feel safer.

I'm really looking forward to going through these scanners or getting a pat down before I go to Walmart or Kroger in the future, too.

justincredible;568728 wrote:Yep, it is definitely necessary to treat every single person getting on an airplane as a terrorist. And hey, I hear they've confiscated a little weed and a few leathermans with the scans. I definitely feel safer.

People want to kill us because we are Americans. These searches disrupt their efforts They save the lives of untold Americans. Tough shit if you are inconvienced by it.

justincredible;568733 wrote:I'm really looking forward to going through these scanners or getting a pat down before I go to Walmart or Kroger in the future, too.

I realize you may have forgotten that 3000 Americans were killed on 9/11 because of a failure in airport security not on searches at Walmart. As were the deaths on the flight over Lockerbie. So you can go on and on about Walmart, but air security is a proven problem.

isadore;568746 wrote:People want to kill us because we are Americans. These searches disrupt their efforts They save the lives of untold Americans. Tough shit if you are inconvienced by it.

They can kill us without stepping foot into an airport.

isadore;568746 wrote:People want to kill us because we are Americans. These searches disrupt their efforts They save the lives of untold Americans. Tough shit if you are inconvienced by it.

Nice to know the terrorists won the "War on Terror". Our liberties and freedoms are further curtailed. I love seeing pix of 60 year old nuns, children, and quadreplegics getting groped all in the name of political correctness. Bin Laden won...I wish he would come pick up his trophy at the UN...the home of foreign nationals that hate the United States of America.

isadore;568753 wrote:I realize you may have forgotten that 3000 Americans were killed on 9/11 because of a failure in airport security not on searches at Walmart. As were the deaths on the flight over Lockerbie. So you can go on and on about Walmart, but air security is a proven problem.

And they could have been just as effective without ever stepping foot on to an airplane. These TSA actions are 100% reactionary. The terrorists are going to find a new way to kill us and these scan will be rendered useless.

Give me a fucking break.

justincredible;568757 wrote:They can kill us without stepping foot into an airport.

they may, but they have done it quite successfully by stepping into airports and killing several thousand Americans.

isadore;568764 wrote:they may, but they have done it quite successfully by stepping into airports and killing several thousand Americans.

So what happens when they take a new approach and start targeting, say, crowded sports stadiums?

Every day I walk out my front door I'm taking a risk that I might die.

BGFalcons82;568759 wrote:Nice to know the terrorists won the "War on Terror". Our liberties and freedoms are further curtailed. I love seeing pix of 60 year old nuns, children, and quadreplegics getting groped all in the name of political correctness. Bin Laden won...I wish he would come pick up his trophy at the UN...the home of foreign nationals that hate the United States of America.

Yep. And while the terrorists are laughing their asses off at us our Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves.

It bothers me immensely that people are okay with this.

BGFalcons82;568759 wrote:Nice to know the terrorists won the "War on Terror". Our liberties and freedoms are further curtailed. I love seeing pix of 60 year old nuns, children, and quadreplegics getting groped all in the name of political correctness. Bin Laden won...I wish he would come pick up his trophy at the UN...the home of foreign nationals that hate the United States of America.

Oh thank you chicken little the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Hey all they have to do is go through airport body scanners. Big fucking deal. And even patdowns are no big deal. lets save American lives, not political correctness.