jordo212000 wrote:
I'm a Buckeye fan too. I think there is more than enough room for another strong program in the state. When you look around at other recruiting gold mine states, they have multiple strong, storied programs. (Florida, Miami, FSU... Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech... USC, Stanford, UCLA, Fresno) But Ohio State is really all alone.

Cincinnati could give us some problems when we play them in a few years

But look at the other schools you listed... They are filled with tradition, national exposure, etc.

Like I said, it's not like it's impossible for Cincy to do it, but it's not going to be easy to maintain consistently, and reload like teams like OSU, Florida, Va Tech, LSU, etc. do.

And even OSU has a few years where they are just "blah", but our coaching makes our team even better, which is why Cincy needs to do what they can (and it looks like they are) to keep Kelly. Kelly is a winner, and always has been.

I know we don't have to, and I know we don't, but when you break it down Ohio still dominates our roster

DaBrowns41 wrote:

But look at the other schools you listed... They are filled with tradition, national exposure, etc.

Like I said, it's not like it's impossible for Cincy to do it, but it's not going to be easy to maintain consistently, and reload like teams like OSU, Florida, Va Tech, LSU, etc. do.

And even OSU has a few years where they are just "blah", but our coaching makes our team even better, which is why Cincy needs to do what they can (and it looks like they are) to keep Kelly. Kelly is a winner, and always has been.

True to some extent. Although I'd argue Texas Tech would be a reasonable comparison and a school that Cincy could aim to emulate. I remember in 2002 they were a nobody when they came to the shoe. I'd also say that schools like Stanford and Fresno (who compete on a national scale once every 3-4 yrs wouldn't be thought of as schools with loads of "tradition"

You can take steps towards elevating yourself nationally in many ways; one being recruiting, secondly being your scheduling; they played Oregon State and Illinois( which is a step up) I'd like to see their OOC schedule for the next couple of years; they could do a whole lot by following the Pat Hill model of play anybody anytime anywhere; that's done wonders for their program

darbypitcher22 wrote: I know we don't have to, and I know we don't, but when you break it down Ohio still dominates our roster

Well yeah... But Florida dominates UF's roster. Bama dominates Bama's roster, and Texas dominates Texas' roster.

That's a given. A lot of times it's also some of those out of state guys that make the difference in recruiting as well.

jordo212000 wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote:

But look at the other schools you listed... They are filled with tradition, national exposure, etc.

Like I said, it's not like it's impossible for Cincy to do it, but it's not going to be easy to maintain consistently, and reload like teams like OSU, Florida, Va Tech, LSU, etc. do.

And even OSU has a few years where they are just "blah", but our coaching makes our team even better, which is why Cincy needs to do what they can (and it looks like they are) to keep Kelly. Kelly is a winner, and always has been.

True to some extent. Although I'd argue Texas Tech would be a reasonable comparison and a school that Cincy could aim to emulate. I remember in 2002 they were a nobody when they came to the shoe. I'd also say that schools like Stanford and Fresno (who compete on a national scale once every 3-4 yrs wouldn't be thought of as schools with loads of "tradition"

Well, with Texas Tech, since like 2000 or so, it's all been system recruiting. They want a guy that can throw the ball 50 times a game, a speedy, scat back like RB, and quick, but big WR's.

Stanford has a lot of tradition, but they aren't a top school because of football, it's because of academics.

I think UC and Fresno are the most similar. Programs from smaller conferences that are on the rise. By smaller conferences I mean the C-USA because UC started their positive transition with players that were recruited while still in the C-USA just before they left in '05.

darbypitcher22 wrote: You can take steps towards elevating yourself nationally in many ways; one being recruiting, secondly being your scheduling; they played Oregon State and Illinois( which is a step up) I'd like to see their OOC schedule for the next couple of years; they could do a whole lot by following the Pat Hill model of play anybody anytime anywhere; that's done wonders for their program

Like I said in another thread (or was it this one?), their schedule wasn't really that bad OOC compared to the rest of the Big East teams. I mean there were 2-3 Big East teams that scheduled 1-2 FCS schools AND teams like WKU, and FIU who are just a few years removed from FCS (or D-IAA at that time).

And because schedules are put out a few years ahead of time, I can't really blame the Illinois thing on them because Illinois has previously been a solid opponent, but their (young) defense has held them back, along with losing Pierre Thomas back in '06 and Mendenhall shortly after.

I'd really love to see OSU and Cincy become an annual thing. We played them like every other year until 2007 or so, and then we just stopped.

yeah, scheduling so far in advance can be a crap shoot in many ways. I'm not so sure OSU/Cincy will ever become an annual thing, eventhough a lot of people would like it to be

darbypitcher22 wrote: yeah, scheduling so far in advance can be a crap shoot in many ways. I'm not so sure OSU/Cincy will ever become an annual thing, eventhough a lot of people would like it to be

I think it'd be good for both programs. Sort of like a FSU/Florida rivalry, or Auburn/Bama, NC State and NC, etc.

We focus on playing at least one other Ohio team a year, but why can't we set it to just one?

With how Cincy has started to develop, that'd be a huge risk for the Bucks to take year in and year out. It'd be cool to see, but I can't see the Bucks wanting to do it. Plus needing 7 home games a year to keep the athletic budget afloat and guaranteed to play at least 3 and possibly 4 in the big ten on some occasions combined with a trip to a power school every other year (Miami will be the next trip in 2011) I can't see them doing it. Ohio State is surely not going to play them at Nippert Stadium

darbypitcher22 wrote: With how Cincy has started to develop, that'd be a huge risk for the Bucks to take year in and year out. It'd be cool to see, but I can't see the Bucks wanting to do it. Plus needing 7 home games a year to keep the athletic budget afloat and guaranteed to play at least 3 and possibly 4 in the big ten on some occasions combined with a trip to a power school every other year (Miami will be the next trip in 2011) I can't see them doing it. Ohio State is surely not going to play them at Nippert Stadium

I think we'll just keep scheduling 1 pretty tough OOC game like we did with Texas, USC, and now Miami (who is on the rise, despite being disappointing a bit this year).

But, I wouldn't mind at least seeing UC come into the 'Shoe every couple years like we did from 2000-2006 or whatever.

We also have California, Va. Tech, Oklahoma, and Tennessee scheduled in non conference back to backs like this all the way up to 2019

darbypitcher22 wrote: We also have California, Va. Tech, Oklahoma, and Tennessee scheduled in non conference back to backs like this all the way up to 2019

Very cool. I didn't know that, but it's great to hear that we are going to make sure we're consistently scheduling tougher opponents.

Yeah, the first three have been known about for a while; Tennessee was added in the past year or two to that cycle of games, and I'm sure they'll add more on a need basis. Its a great September test, shows where your team is and how much work they have ahead of themselves at the same time. Plus the BCS has proved time and time again if you're going to make the Title game with a loss, the earlier you lose and the better quality opponent you lose to, the better

I'd love for Ohio, a true football state, to house more than one power in college football. The population, size, and resources are all there...

I think a lot of people would like for this to happen as well

I think Cincy is headed in the direction to be a powerhouse.

A) Cincinnati is not a destination job.
B) Kelly is the second best lower level coach right now behind Peterson.

A+B = Kelly should leave while the iron is hot.

But Cincy is committing itself to being a destination job by improving the facilities and trying to do a feasibility study to expand Nippert.

darbypitcher22 wrote: Ohio State is surely not going to play them at Nippert Stadium

I doubt it becomes a yearly thing because you are right, Ohio State wouldn't play in Nippert. But that could be solved by playing at a neutral site. Paul Brown Stadium or maybe Cleveland Brown Stadium

Kelly is no dummy. Leverage.....and I can't blame him.

Wow... just wow. I really don't know where to go with this thread as it would take me years to get DaBrowns caught up to this decade of football.

You can't compare UC to Tulane or Hawaii. First, UC plays in a BCS conference. That alone gets advantages you could never capture in C-USA or the Wac. Second, Ohio and Cincinnati is a hotbed of football. In addition, UC has been getting kids from the state of Indiana and Michigan as well OSU can't get them all. UC has been making grounds by not taking kids away from OSU, but from the middle tier schools in the B10 (Michigan St, Purdue, Iowa, Illinois, etc.). You haven't even seen UC reach its potential as they best recruits ever are primarily underclassmen. Third, the Big East has proven it is a quality conference. Moreover, the conference has gotten a lot of exposure this year. UC/WVU/Pitt/UCONN have played nationally televised games and has earned respect across the country. WHen Hawaii, Tulane, et al where at their zenith, they never benefitted from this.

Finally, since someone asked, here is UC's OOC for the next few years:

2010- Oklahoma, NC State, Fresno, Miami
2011- TN, NC State, Akron, Miami
2012- OSU, Va Tech, San Diego State, Miami
2013- Purdue, Illinois, Miami

Little Danny wrote: Wow... just wow. I really don't know where to go with this thread as it would take me years to get DaBrowns caught up to this decade of football.

You can't compare UC to Tulane or Hawaii. First, UC plays in a BCS conference. That alone gets advantages you could never capture in C-USA or the Wac. Second, Ohio and Cincinnati is a hotbed of football. In addition, UC has been getting kids from the state of Indiana and Michigan as well OSU can't get them all. UC has been making grounds by not taking kids away from OSU, but from the middle tier schools in the B10 (Michigan St, Purdue, Iowa, Illinois, etc.). You haven't even seen UC reach its potential as they best recruits ever are primarily underclassmen. Third, the Big East has proven it is a quality conference. Moreover, the conference has gotten a lot of exposure this year. UC/WVU/Pitt/UCONN have played nationally televised games and has earned respect across the country. WHen Hawaii, Tulane, et al where at their zenith, they never benefitted from this.

Finally, since someone asked, here is UC's OOC for the next few years:

2010- Oklahoma, NC State, Fresno, Miami
2011- TN, NC State, Akron, Miami
2012- OSU, Va Tech, San Diego State, Miami
2013- Purdue, Illinois, Miami

Alright... So basically you're saying because they play in a slightly bigger conference than the C-USA, that they will automatically be great with recruiting and become a powerhouse?

False.

USF struggles to bring in recruits because of Florida.
Texas A&M and Tech struggle to bring in top recruits because of Texas.
Cal struggles to bring in many top recruits because of Cal.

Does it mean that UC can't get solid 4* and a few 5* recruits and be good? Not at all. But anybody thinking that UC is a football school, and that their football program is going to draw more students and recruits to the school is being silly, because it takes more than 4 good seasons to become a football school.

Like I said also, my biggest reasoning is that Kelly won't be there after next season, if he doesn't leave this season. Kelly is the reason why that team has been successful. If he leaves, Cincy goes right back to 4-7 seasons.

I actually do not think he is leaving.

DaBrowns41 wrote:

Little Danny wrote: Wow... just wow. I really don't know where to go with this thread as it would take me years to get DaBrowns caught up to this decade of football.

You can't compare UC to Tulane or Hawaii. First, UC plays in a BCS conference. That alone gets advantages you could never capture in C-USA or the Wac. Second, Ohio and Cincinnati is a hotbed of football. In addition, UC has been getting kids from the state of Indiana and Michigan as well OSU can't get them all. UC has been making grounds by not taking kids away from OSU, but from the middle tier schools in the B10 (Michigan St, Purdue, Iowa, Illinois, etc.). You haven't even seen UC reach its potential as they best recruits ever are primarily underclassmen. Third, the Big East has proven it is a quality conference. Moreover, the conference has gotten a lot of exposure this year. UC/WVU/Pitt/UCONN have played nationally televised games and has earned respect across the country. WHen Hawaii, Tulane, et al where at their zenith, they never benefitted from this.

Finally, since someone asked, here is UC's OOC for the next few years:

2010- Oklahoma, NC State, Fresno, Miami
2011- TN, NC State, Akron, Miami
2012- OSU, Va Tech, San Diego State, Miami
2013- Purdue, Illinois, Miami

Alright... So basically you're saying because they play in a slightly bigger conference than the C-USA, that they will automatically be great with recruiting and become a powerhouse?

False.

USF struggles to bring in recruits because of Florida.
Texas A&M and Tech struggle to bring in top recruits because of Texas.
Cal struggles to bring in many top recruits because of Cal.

Does it mean that UC can't get solid 4* and a few 5* recruits and be good? Not at all. But anybody thinking that UC is a football school, and that their football program is going to draw more students and recruits to the school is being silly, because it takes more than 4 good seasons to become a football school.

Like I said also, my biggest reasoning is that Kelly won't be there after next season, if he doesn't leave this season. Kelly is the reason why that team has been successful. If he leaves, Cincy goes right back to 4-7 seasons.

USF not only competes against Florida, they compete against FSU and Miami. Not to mention every Tom, Dick and Harry in the country raids the talent pool in Florida (UC included, we got Gilyard and some other youngsters from there). Texas is also split split multiple teams and players play elsewhere (every look at other B12 team's rosters--- everyone is from Texas). Sorry DaBrowns, you are wrong here.