To be fair radical christians kill people too. You just don't hear about it.

My statement stands.

So radical christians don't kill people? That's news to me.

When was the last terrorist attack in the name of jesus on american soil?

Because burning a book, really any book. Is stupid.

How about flags? Burning flags is even more stupid.

Because the pastor's intent, as was Marilyn Manson's, is to insult and offend a particular group. That is not only stupid, but the actions of a person that is not of sound mind.

as that would be the intent of a flag burning also...Flag burners are not of sound mind.


If you support the right of people to burn flags as a legitimate form of protest, than you must also support the right of people to burn a book in protest, whether that be the Koran or the Bible.

superman;478046 wrote:When was the last terrorist attack in the name of jesus on american soil?

Whenever the last time someone was killed at an abortion clinic probably.

Or the last time a neo-Nazi killed someone (they claim to do things for god and also claim to be Christians).

My point is that neither religion is without its violent wackos. Perhaps the international terrerism scene is dominated by Muslim groups now but it hasn't always been and it probably won't always be.


Edit: HitsRus, I don't think that anyone is questioning their right to burn a book or a flag or whatever. But it still is dumb to do so. Does burning either really mean anything or hurt anyone? Nope. But people get upset about it and doing anything that the sole purpose is to upset people is stupid and childish.

I don't think that anyone is questioning their right to burn a book or a flag or whatever

...and that has been my point all along in these arguments about the cultural center. It is not about rights, but about the insistence of the assertion of those rights in deference to the sensitivities of your neighbor. Why make a bad situation worse, just because you have the right to do so? That is what really stupid. It is about common sense. It is about being a good neighbor. It's about making an intelligent decision considering the circumstances of the time, and considering alternatives that can make things better instead of worse.

BGFalcons82;477878 wrote:Maybe this pastor got what he wanted all along....to stop the construction of the 9/11 shrine to radical Muslims.

nope

BGFalcons82;477878 wrote:Maybe he caused enough of a stir to get done what no other group could get done?

nope

BGFalcons82;477878 wrote:Maybe he played his cards perfectly and is able to stop the NYC Imam Rauf from causing a revolt in lower Manhattan?

nope

BGFalcons82;477878 wrote:Maybe...just maybe...the simple pastor in Gainesville, FL, knew how to work the system to get what he, and other Christians, wanted?

nope

BGFalcons82;477878 wrote:Maybe he's just smarter than the average bear?

nope

HitsRus;478081 wrote:If you support the right of people to burn flags as a legitimate form of protest, than you must also support the right of people to burn a book in protest, whether that be the Koran or the Bible.

I agree with IWP. They have the right to do it, but it's stupid. And people who get upset about it are a little off too IMHO.

I Wear Pants;478000 wrote:To be fair radical christians kill people too. You just don't hear about it.

I beg to differ, we do hear about it.

Last I checked everytime a radical Christian tries to bomb an abortion clinic we hear about it. We hear about the Tim McVeigh's, the radical suicidal cults, etc.

Any person or group that would would respond violently to book burning is just looking for an excuse to be violent. If this idiot decides not to burn the books, the radicals will find something else as to use reason for their violent behavior.

jmog;478291 wrote:I beg to differ, we do hear about it.

Last I checked everytime a radical Christian tries to bomb an abortion clinic we hear about it. We hear about the Tim McVeigh's, the radical suicidal cults, etc.

Apparently superman doesn't pay attention.

Or apparently you missed my point.

superman;478329 wrote:Or apparently you missed my point.

Was your point that terrorists never do anything in the name of Jesus?

No, the point was the media is full of hypocrites.

superman;478366 wrote:No, the point was the media is full of hypocrites.

I missed that by a mile. We agree on that one.

superman;478366 wrote:No, the point was the media is full of hypocrites.

Perhaps, but your example of such being factually incorrect doesn't help your argument.

If the pastor accomplished anything, it may be linking the two events (mosque-building and Koran-burning) and the issue of "right constitutionally" but "wrong common-sensically". I don't agree with the burning, but the point has been made.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39094190/ns/us_news-security

This part bothers me:

Cleric Rusli Hasbi told 1,000 worshippers attending Friday morning prayers in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, that whether or not he burns the Quran, Jones had already "hurt the heart of the Muslim world."

"If he'd gone through with it, it would have been tantamount to war," the cleric said in the coastal town of Lhokseumawe. "A war that would have rallied Muslims all over the world."

Muslims consider the book the sacred word of God and insist it be treated with the utmost respect.

Really? Burning a book (which can be reprinted, and has been reprinted, many times over) is "tantamount to war"? As a Christian, I consider the Bible the sacred word of God, and believe it should be treated with utmost respect, but I and 99.9999% of Christians worldwide don't believe violations of such should be responded to with violence. There's a distinct difference between the two religions, the issue of divine revelation. Yes they both believe their scriptures to be divinely inspired, but if God (or Allah) is who he says he is, then he can defend his scriptures and ensure their preservation to future generations, no matter how many people assault them.

1 Peter 1:24 " . . . the grass withers, and the flower falls off, but the word of the Lord abides forever"

Matt. 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words shall not pass away"

Christians don't need to be all worked up about someone burning paper and ink, because the word of God is more than that, and God can defend his Scriptures.

queencitybuckeye;478372 wrote:Perhaps, but your example of such being factually incorrect doesn't help your argument.

what was incorrect?

jmog;478291 wrote:I beg to differ, we do hear about it.

Last I checked everytime a radical Christian tries to bomb an abortion clinic we hear about it. We hear about the Tim McVeigh's, the radical suicidal cults, etc.

You are right. We do hear about it. I guess I just don't like this idea that they are the ones that cause all the problems and they are the only ones that kill people over religion. It isn't true. Sure the terrorism scene (or at least the large scale attacks) of late have been dominated by crazy Muslims but it could just as quickly be dominated by crazy Christians or Jews or some other crazy religious sect.

I Wear Pants;478561 wrote:You are right. We do hear about it. I guess I just don't like this idea that they are the ones that cause all the problems and they are the only ones that kill people over religion. It isn't true. Sure the terrorism scene (or at least the large scale attacks) of late have been dominated by crazy Muslims but it could just as quickly be dominated by crazy Christians or Jews or some other crazy religious sect.

Hit me up the next time those wacky Christians take out 15-2000 people at a time instead of one abortion doctor every 10 years. The "terrorism scene" body count has been dominated by Muslims for the past 20 years. It's not "of late." As of today, 9/10/2010, they are the ones that are causing the problems and they are the ones killing the vast majority of people over religion.

I guess what some call "islamophobia," I merely call "playing the odds."

fish82;478609 wrote:Hit me up the next time those wacky Christians take out 15-2000 people at a time instead of one abortion doctor every 10 years. The "terrorism scene" body count has been dominated by Muslims for the past 20 years. It's not "of late." As of today, 9/10/2010, they are the ones that are causing the problems and they are the ones killing the vast majority of people over religion.

I guess what some call "islamophobia," I merely call "playing the odds."

Timothy Mcveigh

Did McVeigh ever show any religious preference? I don't recall it at the time.

Manhattan Buckeye;478623 wrote:Did McVeigh ever show any religious preference? I don't recall it at the time.

According to Wiki (I'm not researching harder than that) he went to church when he was a kid, but had written a letter to his church telling them he was agnostic. In a time magazine interview he said he did believe in god.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

Again according to wiki Mcveigh said the motivation for the bombing was for what the government did in Waco and Ruby ridge. Waco was definitely a fanatical religious group, so I think that's a fair comparison.