No mella that would not have been the right thing to do at all, and I dont think anyone even so much as entertained that notion. Lets use some common sense here and actually read. No one said anything close to that mella

And gardens that point was to illustrate that the old lady was not even mobile enough to pose a threat to them per se. Not that it was a sticking point to either side of the argument, do not construe it as such please, that was blatantly obvious.

That goes to the woman's (with the baby) total lack of sense (I think that you're intelligent enough to know that I shouldn't have to break that down any further)......

Gardens35;464755 wrote:That goes to the woman's (with the baby) total lack of sense (I think that you're intelligent enough to know that I shouldn't have to break that down any further)......

Or the fact that it is Whitehall and many people who live there have a skewed sense of what is wrong and what is right.

check out the poll

http://www.ohiochatter.com/forum/threads/15835-Was-this-too-over-the-top

Eh, I only pointed that out as the lady wasnt mobile enough to do anything to someone walking in her direct vicinity....

Where you been all day Wiggy? Was you at Sharptons march in D.C.?

First off, your user name is very ironic in the sense that you are arguing that excessive force was used...

But on to discussing the issue at hand... If a person has ever been in any physical confrontation I'm sure they will tell you that you should NEVER underestimate the person you are up against... that is how you get hurt.

If the officer casually went up to the lady and she lashed out at the officer, it'd be her fault for putting herself in a bad position. The officer used a reasonable amount of force to disarm the person. Excessive force would have been using a taser or gun on the old lady. A quick physical disarming of the lady is probably as little force as she could have used and kept herself reasonably safe.

Thats not irony.....at all.

I didnt see anything that could be construed as lashing out, and I dont think you can say that with this video and given that she had her back turned to the cop. I wont say she was or she wasnt, we cannot tell for sure at all. To state that as fact is silly.

And Capone, come on man, I know youre an idiot, but come on. Al Sharpton? Where do you get your material from? How is that even relevant

Ender Wiggin;464824 wrote:Thats not irony.....at all.

I didnt see anything that could be construed as lashing out, and I dont think you can say that with this video and given that she had her back turned to the cop. I wont say she was or she wasnt, we cannot tell for sure at all. To state that as fact is silly.

And Capone, come on man, I know youre an idiot, but come on. Al Sharpton? Where do you get your material from? How is that even relevant

Ummm, yes it is ironic. Ender Wiggin is a character who is all about using excessive force. It is ironic that a person using that handle is vehemently against this situation in which excessive force was used. There is a discordance in between what your user name is known for doing and what you are preaching here...

And did I say that the video showed she lashed out? No, I was raising a hypothetical... the word "if" should have tipped you off. You clearly missed the point. Someone engaging in a physical altercation should NEVER underestimate their opponent. That is the easiest way to getting oneself injured. A physical disarming was probably the least amount of force that is used to actually disarm a person wielding a blade. I would put it below both tasing and shooting someone.

......Thats not how Ender Wiggin is...at all. What books did you read? He never even wanted to do most of the things he did. Excessive Force? Wtfno.

And I understood what you said clear as day, its just that its silly when using common sense. The old lady had her back turned. Are trained cops really not able to difuse that situation with an 87 year old woman who has her back turned? Stop trying to bring hypotheticals that make no sense into the equation.

But more importantly you are 100% wrong about Ender Wiggin. That upsets me even moreso than the video.

Ender Wiggin;464854 wrote:......Thats not how Ender Wiggin is...at all. What books did you read? He never even wanted to do most of the things he did. Excessive Force? Wtfno.

And I understood what you said clear as day, its just that its silly when using common sense. The old lady had her back turned. Are trained cops really not able to difuse that situation with an 87 year old woman who has her back turned? Stop trying to bring hypotheticals that make no sense into the equation.

But more importantly you are 100% wrong about Ender Wiggin. That upsets me even moreso than the video.

Yes, it upset Ender Wiggin... but it was who he was to the core. That's why he hated himself so and viewed himself as Peter at the school.

The whole point of Ender being requisitioned was that he had the instinct to go for the kill (Peter) but also the compassion (Valentine) to realize what motivated his enemies to destroy them better. They literally spell that out in the book. If you missed that completely no wonder you are completely misunderstanding this situation as well.

Lol except thats not true, he was not like that at all. He didnt hate himself, he hated what he had to do. He wasnt out there to destroy and nothing else, he wasnt a sociapath like his brother. He Wasnt excessive in anyway especially in harming past what was needed.

If thats how you feel then no wonder you are so wrong about this topic as well. Makes sense now I know you know not of what you speak of.

Also, he wouldnt have felt so guilty of utterly eradicating the Formics if excessive force was in his blood or w/e youre trying to say.

Ender Wiggin;464865 wrote:Lol except thats not true, he was not like that at all. He didnt hate himself, he hated what he had to do. He wasnt out there to destroy and nothing else, he wasnt a sociapath like his brother. He Wasnt excessive in anyway especially in harming past what was needed.

If thats how you feel then no wonder you are so wrong about this topic as well. Makes sense now I know you know not of what you speak of.

Ender Wiggin;464868 wrote:Also, he wouldnt have felt so guilty of utterly eradicating the Formics if excessive force was in his blood or w/e youre trying to say.

Yes, he was like that. He killed that kid from his "earth" school before he even began being "used" by the military. He always felt guilt because he was so compassionate as well. But it was always his natural instinct to completely annihilate his opponents so they could never hurt him again. Everything he does in that book points towards total domination... killing of a couple of kids, absolutely destroying opposing teams in the game, killing the wolf children in the game, and completely annihilating the buggers. It's even hinted that he knew already in his subconscious that he was killing the formics when he was playing the game at command school. He ALWAYS used excessive force. Just because he always felt bad about it doesn't mean it's not what he did. He hated himself because all of this... hence seeing himself as his brother Peter in the mirror.

The book demonstrates this fact multiple times over with all of the scenarios they have through out. And they also spell it out again at the very end where he has actually cracked. I don't remember off hand the exact conversation, but it went something like this (This conversation is with Mazer Rackham). Ender claims that they never wanted him, that they wanted Peter. Mazer corrects him that Peter could never do it because his lack of empathy. They needed something who could understand the buggers and get in their minds to learn how they think, but also needed someone willing to win at all costs and do what is necessary so the enemy never hurts them. It is always easy to go back and second guess there is another way. For example in the book the formics weren't attacking again, at this point they had already understood humans were sentient beings, but the humans wanted to kill them anyways. Therefore this was all unnecessary.

And tying this all back in with the topic. It's easy to second guess and say that it was excessive force. But at the time the woman had a knife and was walking around with it, refused to put it down. So the police officer used the least forceful way to disarm someone of 3 options (physical takedown, taser gun, shooting).

Are you talking about Stilson? He didnt want to hurt Stilson, he wasnt even aware that he killed him FFS but he did what was needed to stop the harassment from him and his gang, it states that explicitly. The books in no way insinuate he was inclined to be like that. He was guilt ridden because he saw himself as Peter yet he knew he wasnt a sociopath like him. There was nothing excessive, he did what needed to be done but he never went above and beyond what was needed. Even in the game he resorted to doing what needed to be done after exhausting other avenues.

If those are the only 3 ways cops are trained to disarm someone, in this case an 87 year old lady with Alzheimers who had her back turned to the cop, then thats just silly. Common sense needed to be used. It was not. When other cops say that was handled poorly then it was most likely handled poorly. And it was.

Textbook police work Wiggen. Nothing more nothing less. Go find another crusade to jump on.

Capone until you back up your idiotic statements earlier, nothing you say matters. Man up or Shut up.

Ender Wiggin;465247 wrote:
If those are the only 3 ways cops are trained to disarm someone, in this case an 87 year old lady with Alzheimers who had her back turned to the cop, then thats just silly. Common sense needed to be used. It was not. When other cops say that was handled poorly then it was most likely handled poorly. And it was.

what they did was pretty textbook

http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V3535

Ender Wiggin;465331 wrote:Capone until you back up your idiotic statements earlier, nothing you say matters. Man up or Shut up.

Do I need to comment any further Wiggen? You have been pretty much owned on this thread. hahaha

Cops are some of the biggest idiots on earth.. I understand they get poor training. But I have seen on the show COPS. A suspect is lying flat on the ground. Face down.. 4 cops using excessive force to pin him to the ground. And another COP will get out of a cop car & shout "Get on the Ground". What dumb asses..

You're using the show COPS to give examples of how bad cops are? wow.

I havent been owned at all. Its 2 sides here people agree with me and people disagree with me. If thats your definition of ownage than you are even dumber than everyone thought. The only ones that have been owed are the idiots, ie you, who brought up some ignorant irrelevant crap like usual. Now stop being a little bitch boy and back up what you say.

LJ, those 2 situations are not even close to the same, thats really dumb of you to try and put on for the other. Im sure that everyone thinks the lady in that video and the 87 year old lady with Alzheimers who had her back turned are completely the same.

Youll have to try harder than that.

Well since I don't have any history of run in with the police. I can only use examples of that show & all the wrong doings by the police which is documented daily on the NEWS.. Pull over. We are pulled over. Idiots..

What other examples would you like. Rodney King, the police shooting & killing Unarmed kids... what more do you need. The internet is full of these atrocities.

Ender Wiggin;465502 wrote:
LJ, those 2 situations are not even close to the same, thats really dumb of you to try and put on for the other. Im sure that everyone thinks the lady in that video and the 87 year old lady with Alzheimers who had her back turned are completely the same.

Youll have to try harder than that.

I guess you don't understand what "protocol" means