Manhattan Buckeye;450989 wrote:I still don't get how increasing the retirement age for younger workers "isn't a big deal." It is generational theft. So we're telling current workers and future workers that our dumbass parents and grandparents that bought into this program and "by God deserve what they were promised" even though they were the ones that made those promises TO THEMSELVES!

Any SS reform needs to involve reduction of current benefits. If granny doesn't like it she can move in with her kids, assuming they have a job and can afford a house.

Nobody being cheated by raising the age. It is just an obviously needed adjustment based on the increasing lifespan. When Social Security was started the average lifespan was 62 years, now it is 78. For the young people entering the system, it could easily be well into the 90s. We need an adjustment up in the age of requirement.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html#axzz0wbb7Xric
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

tk421;451276 wrote:Young people shouldn't have to work till 80 to support their parents and grandparents who have completely robbed them blind with SS. You older people expecting a full return on your money don't deserve it. You are the ones who voted these politicians into office and went along with this generational robbery. My generation and younger shouldn't have to work to death to pay for you.

I paid into the system for 35+ years. My generation paid for the previous generation's SS. Why shouldn't I expect the same? I paid in. I want my money back.

believer;451342 wrote:I paid into the system for 35+ years. My generation paid for the previous generation's SS. Why shouldn't I expect the same? I paid in. I want my money back.

Fool - it's not your money. You worked for others with the promise it would be there for you. Ponzi never devised a system so well oiled.

I'm just teasin ya, believer. I know how you feel.

What if...they changed it to make it what it was supposed to be...an individual account for each person that makes a "contribution"? You know...AlGore's lockbox. I think that would sell, but then it would empower individuals and the socialists can't have ANY of that, now can they? It's their money to redistribute as they see fit, not ours to save. How foolish of me to even think of it. Sorry to waste your time.

So, you older people are okay with looking at your 8 year old grandchildren and telling them that they need to work till they are 80 so mommy and daddy can have a retirement. That sorry we raised your taxes, we couldn't control our politicians we voted for and they spent all the money. That's okay with the older crowd? Wow, what an example. I paid into it, I don't give a damn about the younger generations, I want my money.

O.K. , I let it go and no Right winger answered. S.S. will not go broke because society has NO ANSWER to what happens to Granny and all the other tens of millions ( and growing each year). Second, it isn't a Ponzi scheme as the extremists like to say. Think tanks on both the Left & the Right agree S.S. WAS funded if govt hadn't spent the money on other govt spending ( and two wars) . Think the cap won't be raised ? Think again. Tinkering around with other things ? Probably as well. The basic program will remain because this is a program that transends the parties ( lots of Rs pay into & collect S.S.). Yet, you have fool after fool in the R party (Ryan, Paul, etc) promoting the idea of doing away with it. Cutting benefits, raising the age, etc. Please, continue that talk. Excellent politics. Face it, it will get fixed and should you attempt to seriously cut it or raise the age, watch what happenings at the voting booth ( which isn't looking good for Rs with the demographic mistakes they keep offending,lol).

Oh, and for a policy discussion to SELL to the public, what is S.S. to be replaced with for the tens of millions of elderly too sick or infirmed to work ( and for how long)

isadore;451325 wrote:Nobody being cheated by raising the age. It is just an obviously needed adjustment based on the increasing lifespan. When Social Security was started the average lifespan was 62 years, now it is 78. For the young people entering the system, it could easily be well into the 90s. We need an adjustment up in the age of requirement.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html#axzz0wbb7Xric
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Ponzi!

When we started SS, we had a multiple of workers paying into the system per recipient in relation to the number paying in now. It is a dying system. The only question is which generation is up for reform. IMO every current generation should take a hit.

It is a ponzi scheme.

Here you go........ just the tip of the iceberg. Sharon Angle is promoting privatization of S.S. Watch the election in Nevada, lol. Great politics. I urge you conservative Rs to campaign on it......lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/13/social-security-keeps-20_n_681595.html

What a joke !

It should have been privatized years ago. - as long as folks got a guarantee that the money they paid into it was THEIRS.

How we could have awarded a generation during the SS infancy without them paying into it, and thought that keeping up the same generous benefits for future generations without the system going broke is beyond me. Eventually it will be insolvent. It isn't a question of "if", it is a question of "when", and the when is probably going to happen sooner than the economists and actuaries, who have done a wonderful job forecasting (sarcasm) have declared.

I have no faith that we will receive a cent from SS, regardless of how long we live. The amounts we've paid into it are just sunk costs. Young people, hell people under 45 shouldn't even begin to think they'll get any substantial amount, ever.

tk421;451406 wrote:So, you older people are okay with looking at your 8 year old grandchildren and telling them that they need to work till they are 80 so mommy and daddy can have a retirement. That sorry we raised your taxes, we couldn't control our politicians we voted for and they spent all the money. That's okay with the older crowd? Wow, what an example. I paid into it, I don't give a damn about the younger generations, I want my money.

People are starting to do that now, anyway (work past the age of 65). It's the trend that's been going on for awhile now.

Of course, I don't want to have a kid who is 5 yrs. old today working later on for something that kid will never get. That's why the 5 yr. old, when she/he starts working, shouldn't have to be bothered with it at all.

Which brings us back around to people getting pretty damn fed-up with the government and are starting to demand REAL change. The way I see it, it's not only our right to do it, but our duty.
Vote the "lifers" out of office. That's the start.

Yet, you have fool after fool in the R party (Ryan, Paul, etc) promoting the idea of doing away with it. Cutting benefits, raising the age, etc. Please, continue that talk. Excellent politics. Face it, it will get fixed and should you attempt to seriously cut it or raise the age, watch what happenings at the voting booth ( which isn't looking good for Rs with the demographic mistakes they keep offending,lol).

The problem with the democrats, one that everybody is slowly waking up to, is that they just keep wanting to create more social programs. When, without a doubt, history shows us that the folks in DC - Republican AND Democrat - can't handle it. Period.

Although the fringe of our nation several of whose members inhabit this site may think the private investment option is right around the corner, Americans are not lining up for it. They have seen the private investment in operation and don’t trust it for their retirement. There is a reason for Social Security. The Great Depression destroyed the retirement hopes for generations. Now we get all this raving about SS being a Ponzi scheme when it has provided security for several generations of Americans.

isadore;451583 wrote:Now we get all this raving about SS being a Ponzi scheme when it has provided security for several generations of Americans.

Pon·zi scheme (pnz) NOUN: An investment swindle in which high profits are promised from fictitious sources and early investors are paid off with funds raised from later ones.

Sounds almost like the definition of Social Security to me.

tk421;451406 wrote:So, you older people are okay with looking at your 8 year old grandchildren and telling them that they need to work till they are 80 so mommy and daddy can have a retirement. That sorry we raised your taxes, we couldn't control our politicians we voted for and they spent all the money. That's okay with the older crowd? Wow, what an example. I paid into it, I don't give a damn about the younger generations, I want my money.

Very smug and self-righteous of you. You keep ignoring the FACT that my contributions to Social Security were FORCED upon me by federal mandate decided by politicians 30 years before I was born. I couldn't control those politicians but I was born, raised, and forced to participate in their socialist ponzi scheme. When I was old enough to vote, I've always picked candidates who advocate reforms in Social Security, Medicare, welfare, etc. It doesn't negate the fact that the programs still exist, that they are still messed up, and that I & my employers have contributed into the system for decades.

I was told my contribution would be available to me when I turned 62...now 65 and a half. MY money better damned well be there when I hit 65 and a half.

Do I like that subsequent generations of workers foot the tax bill and that our fine upstanding elected representatives in DC have sapped SS funds to payoff their constituents with unrelated spending? Nope.

All I'm asking is that I get my FORCED investment back.

Some day you'll be old enough to understand.

^^^^^
“Social Security isn't automatically doomed to fail. Played out to its logical conclusion, a Ponzi scheme is unsustainable because the number of potential investors is eventually exhausted. That's when the last people to participate are out of luck; the music stops and there's nowhere to sit
It's true that Social Security faces a huge burden -- and a significant, long-term financing problem -- in light of retiring Baby Boomers. (The latest projections anticipate Social Security tax revenues to fall below costs in 2017 and the Social Security Trust Funds to be exhausted in 2041.) But Social Security can be, and has been, tweaked and modified to reflect changes in the size of the taxpaying workforce and the number of beneficiaries.”
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/economy/social.security.fortune/index.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2008/12/is_social_secur.html?campaign_id=rss_daily
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Just raise the retirement age to reflect the increasing life span of Americans.

SS is the biggest scam in history. They doll out some pocket change to you when you hit 65 or whatever, when they should be paying you a lump sum of all the money you put in to it plus interest. And what happens to a person who dies at 66? So they paid into it all their working lives...and all they receive are a few $900 checks. Great.

Phase it out by first giving everyone a check with all their money, plus interest, that they put into it right now. Then let them do whatever they want with THEIR money. Oh, but they can't, because they already robbed the account.

I'm collecting S.S. right now. Going back 40+ years , the same clowns then were spreading the same BS rumors then that it was a Ponzi scheme and wouldn't be there for the young. That was me then who knew it was BS. Other than allowing the govt to spend the funds on other govt operations , the system itself is sound. That is agreed to by think tanks from both Right & Left. But we continue to have the fringe elements who promote lies that never set well with the general public. People aren't stupid. They see elderly that can't work, have health problems, know that they are poor , even with S.S. and see no other alternative for them, unless you expect them to crawl off to the streets to die. That could be them. Why people want to continue to waste their breathe in arguing something that will always be with us is a mystery. There are no logical conclusions for what happens to the millions & millions & MILLIONS of elderly without S.S. The public sees this and therefore, there will be a fix . S.S. will be there for todays kids.

And now back to your BS.

Paladin;451760 wrote:I'm collecting S.S. right now. Going back 40+ years , the same clowns then were spreading the same BS rumors then that it was a Ponzi scheme and wouldn't be there for the young. That was me then who knew it was BS. Other than allowing the govt to spend the funds on other govt operations , the system itself is sound. That is agreed to by think tanks from both Right & Left. But we continue to have the fringe elements who promote lies that never set well with the general public. People aren't stupid. They see elderly that can't work, have health problems, know that they are poor , even with S.S. and see no other alternative for them, unless you expect them to crawl off to the streets to die. That could be them. Why people want to continue to waste their breathe in arguing something that will always be with us is a mystery. There are no logical conclusions for what happens to the millions & millions & MILLIONS of elderly without S.S. The public sees this and therefore, there will be a fix . S.S. will be there for todays kids.

And now back to your BS.

Then why the hell aren't you screaming at the top of your lungs at the democrats in power that just voted to cut BILLIONS off the food stamp program to pay off the FUCKING UNIONS??!!! (i don't usually say that word much less type it, so i apologize, but this shit winds me up cause it doesn't make any fucking sense to me - a one-eyed jack can visualize better than this)
You want to worry about mom and pops out there on the verge of starvation? Well... there ya go!

This is worse than Gibby's one-sided views, because at least he has youth to give him some excuse.

SS is a joke. Why should I have faith in a government that can't even balance a budget for 1 year at a time let alone hope my cash would be there in 20+ years. ALL retirement plans should be privatized, state teachers, public employees, SS, ... there is no guarantee that any money will be available when we pay into these systems.

Hahahaha...SS will always be there....hahahahahahaha. Are your better days behind you now Paladin?? You mean like the dems who say there is not an endless supply of oil?? What about that trampling of constitutional rights called Obamacare?? Millions are without healthcare, right?? Hahahahahahahahahahaha

You can't make this stuff up...

Paladin;451760 wrote:They see elderly that can't work, have health problems, know that they are poor , even with S.S. and see no other alternative for them, unless you expect them to crawl off to the streets to die.

And now back to your BS.

WTF? Why is it you leftists always assume that without Big Government intervention, there will be elderly and poor people kicked to the curb to starve? Friggin nonsense. It didn't really happen BEFORE Social Security and it certainly won't happen now.

Contrary to the leftist Kool Aid you are so willing to lap up, Big Government is not the solution to our problems; it's part of the problem.

Unbelievable.

Paladin;451487 wrote:O.K. , I let it go and no Right winger answered. S.S. will not go broke because society has NO ANSWER to what happens to Granny and all the other tens of millions ( and growing each year). Second, it isn't a Ponzi scheme as the extremists like to say. Think tanks on both the Left & the Right agree S.S. WAS funded if govt hadn't spent the money on other govt spending ( and two wars) . Think the cap won't be raised ? Think again. Tinkering around with other things ? Probably as well. The basic program will remain because this is a program that transends the parties ( lots of Rs pay into & collect S.S.). Yet, you have fool after fool in the R party (Ryan, Paul, etc) promoting the idea of doing away with it. Cutting benefits, raising the age, etc. Please, continue that talk. Excellent politics. Face it, it will get fixed and should you attempt to seriously cut it or raise the age, watch what happenings at the voting booth ( which isn't looking good for Rs with the demographic mistakes they keep offending,lol).

So, this is the EASY button, eh? Just raise the retirement age? That's all it takes? I suppose they could raise it to 85 and only 20% will collect on their lifelong contributions. That's fair, right? Who gets to define, "fair" anyways? Who is deemed to be God and gets to make the declaration of "fair"? Is that a position that is elected or deemed?

It isn't easy, paladin. I'll agree the theives have had keys to the kingdom for far too long and IOU's from the past 30 years are coming due. Why not come up with a system that keeps the thieves out of the money till? Why not let people keep more of what they earn?

BGFalcons82;452394 wrote:I'll agree the theives have had keys to the kingdom for far too long and IOU's from the past 30 years are coming due. Why not come up with a system that keeps the thieves out of the money till? Why not let people keep more of what they earn?

Because the politicians in Washington know how to spend your money better than you...don't you know nuthin'?

believer;452797 wrote:Because the politicians in Washington know how to spend your money better than you...don't you know nuthin'?

And worse still, "we" keep voting these people into office! (Granted, the lesser of two evils principle is often the case.)

Jason Bourne;452799 wrote:Granted, the lesser of two evils principle is often the case.

It's always the case.

It seems to me that this talk of the inevitable collapse of SS is overblown. I don't see mainstream economists having such doomsday predictions. It seems to me that most people are saying we just have to get through the boomers and we should be alright. Medicare is a different story though. Nonetheless, it seems to me that people on the right need and desire social security to fail in the long hall because it kills them that a big government program has made many people happy and secure for 75 years. It is the antithesis to their fundamental position that government is always the problem and can never be a solution. JMHO.

Dear Present Goverment Assholes

Please send me back the money i have paid into for SS ....I can take care of myself