gibby08;433484 wrote:That doesn't change my opinion,he still doesn't deserve his jersey retired
like_that;433532 wrote:There is more to retiring a number than just stats. Respect, integrity, and loyalty all play a factor into it. Lebron forfeited all three categories after his narcissistic approach to free agency. How can you retire a player's number when the whole city doesn't even respect the him? That would be a huge insult to the city.
By the way Gibby, the 2008 election called, they want their avatar and signature back.
KR1245;433527 wrote:Z doesnt deserve to have his jersey retire because he never won anything?
Should the Dolphins not have retired Dan Marinos jersey?
Red Sox retire Ted Williams?
Bills retire Jim Kelly?
thedynasty1998;433541 wrote:How many All Star games did Z make it to? 2?
And he should get his number retired? I respect Z a lot, but he is not the caliber of player that gets his number hung in the rafters.
enigmaax;433554 wrote:It probably isn't based exclusively on winning, but all those guys you mentioned are in their sport's Hall of Fame, as well. I know there are going to be some players who may have meant something to their own teams who don't end up in the Hall, but I would think that should be something other than just sticking around for a longer time than anyone else.
As for LeBron, here are questions I'd consider. If he had remained a Cavalier and never won a title (regardless of whether or not he wins in Miami), would he have ended up in the HOF? (Probably, yes.) If he ends up in the HOF, how many prominent Cavs players would he join there (honest question)? Which of the guys whose jerseys are already retired had the impact on the franchise and city, for better or worse, by being on the team?
I know everyone is going to be bitter for a long, long time. But, is it really that easy to discount what he meant to the franchise while he was there (which is more than any other player you've ever had)?
KR1245;433555 wrote:You saw where Z ranks all-time in games played, rebounds, points etc........
Cavs shouldnt retired his jersey because he only made the All-Star game twice? Gotta disagree with that
norwalk;433417 wrote:Hmmm retire James and Z's numbers? That would bring the storied Cavs franchise up to 8 retired numbers? Seems kinda high for a franchise that really has very little winning or tradition. Not sure how many the Celtics have retired or all other franchises but 8 seems awfully high for a franchise like Cleveland. But hey, all because some of the guys were good guys and played during the Miracle in Richfield or the Jordan era retire their numbers sounds like a good enough reason to me.
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thedynasty1998;433609 wrote:FYI, list of numbers retired for each team:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_retired_jersey_numbers
Al Bundy;433724 wrote:Great list of players, but it is insane that the Miami Heat retired Michael Jordan's number.
hoops23;433670 wrote:All those guys deserved their jerseys being retired in Cleveland. Again, the retiring of a number isn't solely based on stats.
Z will have his jersey hung in the rafters as well, and we'll all welcome it because he was a true professional.
Al Bundy;433724 wrote:Great list of players, but it is insane that the Miami Heat retired Michael Jordan's number.
wildcats20;433815 wrote:Pat Riley did it out of respect to MJ.
krazie45;433803 wrote:Hell the Browns retired Ernie Davis' number and he never even played a game for them...
Retiring jerseys is about that player's contributions to the team and community and how they're viewed by the fans. It's not honoring the greatest basketball players of all time....that's what the hall of fame is for. It's honoring the greatest Cleveland Cavaliers of all time by what they do on and off the court.....sending a message to anyone that puts on that uniform that this person is a standard to live up to both as a player and professional.
It's all about team discretion and what that player meant to the franchise. Z definitely deserves to have his number retired.
krazie45;433803 wrote:Hell the Browns retired Ernie Davis' number and he never even played a game for them...
Retiring jerseys is about that player's contributions to the team and community and how they're viewed by the fans. It's not honoring the greatest basketball players of all time....that's what the hall of fame is for. It's honoring the greatest Cleveland Cavaliers of all time by what they do on and off the court.....sending a message to anyone that puts on that uniform that this person is a standard to live up to both as a player and professional.
It's all about team discretion and what that player meant to the franchise. Z definitely deserves to have his number retired.
Okay, so, take the fact that LeBron left Cleveland out of it. Has there been a player that impacted or contributed more to the team (while he was there) and community (while he was there) in the history of the Cavs? I mean, I've seen people say that LeBron changed the whole economy of Cleveland. I know how your feelings are working about the way he left, but can you really deny what he meant to the organization, city, and maybe even state?krazie45;433803 wrote: Retiring jerseys is about that player's contributions to the team and community and how they're viewed by the fans. It's not honoring the greatest basketball players of all time....that's what the hall of fame is for. It's honoring the greatest Cleveland Cavaliers of all time by what they do on and off the court.....sending a message to anyone that puts on that uniform that this person is a standard to live up to both as a player and professional.
I'm really trying to see this. You provide a lot of lip service - what's done for the team, the community, etc. So, what is it specifically about Ilgauskas (sp?) that makes you say he "deserves" it. So, I know you're saying stats aren't the whole story, but doesn't that have something to do with what he means to the franchise. For example, what did having your best year (kind of a paltry 17 ppg) during a season in which your team won 17 games really do for the franchise? What did shooting less than 50% for a career really mean to the franchise? Based on his contracts, the injuries that limited him (was still getting paid big money), and his production, has he ever been good for the franchise?krazie45;433803 wrote: It's all about team discretion and what that player meant to the franchise. Z definitely deserves to have his number retired.
