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Are Native Americans a Separate Nation?

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Serious Business ▸ Are Native Americans a Separate Nation?
BRF's avatar

BRF

Senior Member

8,748 posts
Jul 26, 2010 9:38 PM
WTG, matdad. As an example, the Iroquois were brutal subjugators of neighboring Tribes. Ask the Erie Nation....oh, wait, you can't because they exterminated them.
Jul 26, 2010 9:38pm
tcarrier32's avatar

tcarrier32

Senior Member

1,497 posts
Jul 26, 2010 9:47 PM
im not going to argue that Native Americans didnt have a history of violence, but just about every other civilization in this world has a history of violent behavior, especially before the 1400's. so you are correct, but it doesnt change anything.


just think... if it wasnt for native americans, the first anglo settlers wouldnt of survived. at all.
Jul 26, 2010 9:47pm
BRF's avatar

BRF

Senior Member

8,748 posts
Jul 26, 2010 10:17 PM
"If it wasn't for native americans, the first anglo settlers wouldn't have survived, at all"

Really? The Indians didn't even know what a wheel was. Technology-wise they were WAY behind. That's part of the reason why the "anglos" considered them savages. And don't come back and talk about how Squanto saved the Pilgrims by teaching them how to fertilize with fish! ;-)
Jul 26, 2010 10:17pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Jul 26, 2010 10:26 PM
Michael Jackson sucks!

Oops, wrong thread.
Jul 26, 2010 10:26pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Jul 26, 2010 10:29 PM
ccrunner609;433213 wrote:Indians were inferior humans, If we wouldnt of showed up they would probably still be living in Teepee's and riding horses.

Quite possibly!
Jul 26, 2010 10:29pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Jul 26, 2010 10:30 PM
Jul 26, 2010 10:30pm
iclfan2's avatar

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
Jul 26, 2010 10:34 PM
mella;432996 wrote:Without a doubt Native-Americans are a separate nation and their passports should have been respected but.... it was the host nation that wouldn't not accept the passports and the U.S. said they would issue passports so the team could play. The Iroquois team declined the offer because they do not identify themselves as U.S. citizens.

I guess they should quit bitching then. I would have to agree, if I was an Indian I would hate Americans too, but I'd sure as heck take an American Passport to go play in those games.
Jul 26, 2010 10:34pm
BRF's avatar

BRF

Senior Member

8,748 posts
Jul 26, 2010 10:35 PM
BTW, cc, I enjoyed that Wiki link you posted up. There is some good reading on there, son! AND, I agree with what iclfan just said.
Jul 26, 2010 10:35pm
Apple's avatar

Apple

Prost!

2,620 posts
Jul 26, 2010 11:06 PM
History is filled with the spoils of wars and the take-over of lands and people won through wars.
Jul 26, 2010 11:06pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Jul 27, 2010 12:08 AM
ccrunner609;433213 wrote:Indians were inferior humans, If we wouldnt of showed up they would probably still be living in Teepee's and riding horses.

Nothing like an enjoyable racial stereotype to add to a conversation about Indians and their existence on what was their land, but was conquered. Inferior humans. Apparently incapable of ever evolving as a people technologically if the Europeans hadn't conquered them. My applause...
Jul 27, 2010 12:08am
G

Ghmothwdwhso

Senior Member

534 posts
Jul 27, 2010 1:44 AM
matdad;433062 wrote:Ah, interesting topic. Quick question for you; were the Indians (Native Americans) living in peace and tranquility with each other before the first white man stepped on the continent?
If you answered yes, you receive an "F" in history.
If you answered no, congrats, you paid attention in history class.
So, if the Indians were slaughtering each other over this land for hundreds of years before the white man got here what exactly are they pissed at? Is it that the white man was just better at killing than they were? Seriously, read accounts at how incredibly brutal the Indians were to each other long before "whitey" stepped on this soil.
By the way, I absolutely believe that our government treated them inhumanely and "cheated" them out of much of their own land. I just want you to think about how many of the Indian tribes treated each other.


Sounds just like the current tribes in Africa, who the "whiteys" are attempting to save, in the name of humanity. Whiteys should have minded their own business, then and now, and the Native American Indians, and the Africans would be doing just fine, where they were before "Whitey" came along.
Jul 27, 2010 1:44am
G

Ghmothwdwhso

Senior Member

534 posts
Jul 27, 2010 1:49 AM
ccrunner609;433213 wrote:Indians were inferior humans, If we wouldnt of showed up they would probably still be living in Teepee's and riding horses.

Inferior to humans? That's a laugh. If Obama get's his way we will be living in Teepee's and riding horses.

I'm assuming you were joking, if not, you are one uninformed human, an a piece of shit.
Jul 27, 2010 1:49am
T

Tiernan

Senior Member

13,021 posts
Jul 27, 2010 8:04 AM
ccrunner609;433213 wrote:Indians were inferior humans, If we wouldnt of showed up they would probably still be living in Teepee's and riding horses.

My Lord boy I hope this comment was intended to be sarcastic in some way. (see waht I did there ;-) ?
Jul 27, 2010 8:04am
tcarrier32's avatar

tcarrier32

Senior Member

1,497 posts
Jul 27, 2010 1:08 PM
BRF;433183 wrote:"If it wasn't for native americans, the first anglo settlers wouldn't have survived, at all"

Really? The Indians didn't even know what a wheel was. Technology-wise they were WAY behind. That's part of the reason why the "anglos" considered them savages. And don't come back and talk about how Squanto saved the Pilgrims by teaching them how to fertilize with fish! ;-)

yeah really. this pattern repeated itself all over the settlements that popped up on the east coast. all you have to do is take an entry level american history class to find your proof.
its actually kind of sad that you are trying to ague this one.
Jul 27, 2010 1:08pm
BRF's avatar

BRF

Senior Member

8,748 posts
Jul 27, 2010 9:55 PM
Well, going back to first level history courses, ask the Indians how that worked with the Spanish. What's actually sad is that you spout YOUR stuff based on that. Do you honestly think that because the northern east coast English needed help to grow food and without that help (and I use the word "help" loosely), they would have stopped coming over here?
Jul 27, 2010 9:55pm
E

equus

Member

60 posts
Jul 27, 2010 10:53 PM
ManO'War;432616 wrote:BTW, "we" didn't kill anyone. My ancestors came here at the turn of the century and faced their own discrimination.

Really? You've only been here 10 years? :)

/Sorry, I couldn't resist!
Jul 27, 2010 10:53pm
BRF's avatar

BRF

Senior Member

8,748 posts
Jul 27, 2010 11:14 PM
I'll bet that equus could give some interesting stories about the European introduction of the horse to the "New World"! ;-). See, I wish that some of you would think about if you lived back in those times and how you would feel....both sides. The Indians were tough MF'ers, though, that's for sure.
Jul 27, 2010 11:14pm
darbypitcher22's avatar

darbypitcher22

Senior Member

8,000 posts
Jul 28, 2010 1:23 PM
we've totally fucked them over.

Something needs to be done to make this right, although I doubt it will ever happen
Jul 28, 2010 1:23pm
M

matdad

Senior Member

146 posts
Jul 28, 2010 2:18 PM
darby,
please tell us how you"ve fucked them over.
Jul 28, 2010 2:18pm
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

Senior Member

5,122 posts
Jul 28, 2010 2:22 PM
darbypitcher22;434534 wrote:we've totally fucked them over.

Something needs to be done to make this right, although I doubt it will ever happen
I don't think you will have any takers on giving the land back. I guess they will just have to settle with letting them run casinos.
Jul 28, 2010 2:22pm
tcarrier32's avatar

tcarrier32

Senior Member

1,497 posts
Jul 28, 2010 2:28 PM
BRF;434009 wrote:Well, going back to first level history courses, ask the Indians how that worked with the Spanish. What's actually sad is that you spout YOUR stuff based on that. Do you honestly think that because the northern east coast English needed help to grow food and without that help (and I use the word "help" loosely), they would have stopped coming over here?

Stopped coming over here? probably not, which is why i didnt say that. the spanish people also fucked them over.

you can use the word help loosely all you want. there are many accounts of the level of involvement that early Native Americans had with early settlers. "The Powhatan Indians of Virginia" by Roundtree is where I would start. It goes far beyond fertilizing with fish, and its not until a few generations after the settlers arrived that we see the major shift which puts the Native Americans at the bottom of the totem pole so to speak.
Jul 28, 2010 2:28pm
BRF's avatar

BRF

Senior Member

8,748 posts
Jul 28, 2010 4:18 PM
OK, tcarrier, I'm getting that all you meant was that Indians helped the first settlers, period. I thought you were getting at that without their help, the Europeans wouldn't have kept coming. You are right about several years of peace initially. I will get out the peace pipe for you and me! :-)
Jul 28, 2010 4:18pm
darbypitcher22's avatar

darbypitcher22

Senior Member

8,000 posts
Jul 28, 2010 4:48 PM
majorspark;434603 wrote:I don't think you will have any takers on giving the land back. I guess they will just have to settle with letting them run casinos.

of course you won't not only because they're so pridful of a people they'd never take it, but also because you'd piss off a bunch of people currently living on that land.

Seriously find a way to pay them or some shit for the trouble we've caused(yes, I know another huge issue cuz we don't have the money to do it( but at least come up with something
Jul 28, 2010 4:48pm
BRF's avatar

BRF

Senior Member

8,748 posts
Jul 28, 2010 5:18 PM
How about....living in the greatest country in the world?......and casinos! ;-)

Darby, how do think your beloved Yankees will do tonight? Think of them as the Europeans screwing the Indians. Ha ha... That was a good one, wasn't it? :-)
Jul 28, 2010 5:18pm
darbypitcher22's avatar

darbypitcher22

Senior Member

8,000 posts
Jul 28, 2010 5:20 PM
I was at the 1st 2 games BRF.... got a win on Monday night in pretty dramatic fashion and then last night was a huge farce of an effort...

I think Burnett will continue a strong July and we'll get a win tonight.

Cleveland has only New York and Boston fans to thank for providing them their 8 largest gates of the year because of the shitty product they put on the field; even Cleveland fans can't deny thatq
Jul 28, 2010 5:20pm