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Jordan rips LeBron at Lake Tahoe

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Little Danny's avatar

Little Danny

Senior Member

4,288 posts
Jul 18, 2010 10:46 PM
sjmvsfscs08;426670 wrote:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is often brought up in the "GOAT" conversation and so is Magic Johnson....and they played on the same team. Will it effect his legacy, yes absolutely. If they have a dynasty of 7-8 championships, I don't think it will matter though to be honest with you. The Lakers and the Celtics assembled awesome teams via trades and drafts, but they were still fucking stacked. The Heat just did it via free agency.

That said, fuck LeBron James I hope they never win a championship.

Not a valid comparison. Kareem was in LA long before Magic got there. By the time Erv got into the picture (he was drafted by the way, also a big difference) Kareem was a shell of his former self.
Jul 18, 2010 10:46pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Jul 18, 2010 11:37 PM
KR1245;426792 wrote:Not if the Koufas and Sessions rumors are true

Bingo. Those two moves dwarf ANY signing the Heat made.
Jul 18, 2010 11:37pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Jul 18, 2010 11:40 PM
hoops23;426897 wrote:Bingo. Those two moves dwarf ANY signing the Heat made.

Exactly....

Sessions and Koufos = 0 rings

Lebron and Bosh = 0 rings
Jul 18, 2010 11:40pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Jul 18, 2010 11:44 PM
wes_mantooth;426899 wrote:Exactly....

Sessions and Koufos = 0 rings

Lebron and Bosh = 0 rings

Exactly!

Powe = 1 ring

Wade = 1 ring.

How do people not see the genius behind the Cavs moves?
Jul 18, 2010 11:44pm
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Jul 18, 2010 11:59 PM
like_that;426750 wrote:I know enigmaax is going to ask for a link so here:

http://twitpic.com/23h8yw

Thanks, but I don't really care anyway. Things change. Goals change. Seems like he realized being the greatest of all time wasn't going to happen without titles. Titles weren't going to happen in Cleveland. So now he has a real chance of winning multiple titles, which puts him closer to being the greatest of all time. I know, I know, you guys want his legacy to be forever tainted, whatever.
Jul 18, 2010 11:59pm
killdeer's avatar

killdeer

Hat Trick

1,538 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:26 AM
Little Danny;426863 wrote:...........By the time Erv got into the picture.....Kareem was a shell of his former self.
I realize you are probably exaggerating to make a point...but, that statement is absolutely ludicrous.

You are obviously not of a generation to have ever seen Kareem play live.
If all you know of the NBA in the 1980's is what you see on ESPNClassics, I can see why you might say that.......however,

although KAJ was in the second half of his career by the time Magic was drafted in 1979, he went on to put up numbers that would argue against any assessment of him being a mere "shell of his former self."

For the initial Magic season in LA, Abdul-Jabbar (24.8 ppg, 10.8 rpg) further cemented his place in history by winning a record sixth MVP Award.

Abdul-Jabbar continued to average at least 20 points for the next six seasons.

The Lakers reached the NBA Finals eight times in the 10 seasons between 1979-80 and 1988-89.
In the 1985 Finals, Game 2, Abdul-Jabbar recorded 30 points, 17 rebounds, 8 assists and 3 blocked shots in a 109-102 Lakers win. Los Angeles went on to win the series in six games.

In the Lakers' four victories in that Final, Abdul-Jabbar averaged 30.2 points, 11.3 rebounds, 6.5 assists and 2.0 blocks.

Abdul-Jabbar was named Finals MVP 1985.

Before you throw your "expert assessment" of Kareem's career out there so lightly, perhaps you should have the knowledge to back up your sass.
Jul 19, 2010 12:26am
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:30 AM
enigmaax;426914 wrote:Thanks, but I don't really care anyway. Things change. Goals change. Seems like he realized being the greatest of all time wasn't going to happen without titles. Titles weren't going to happen in Cleveland. So now he has a real chance of winning multiple titles, which puts him closer to being the greatest of all time. I know, I know, you guys want his legacy to be forever tainted, whatever.

You say "you guys" like we're the only ones? Look around, former greats and national media are giving it to the guy. Even Skip Bayless said he didn't think LeBron would be this hated after the move...

And why couldn't he win titles in Cleveland? Because he couldn't win as the guy. I'm sure MJ heard "You can't win in Chicago" before he actually did it.

People forget that MJ jad the chance to leave Chicago before ANY titles were won and join a pretty damn good Knicks team that featured Pat Ewing.. But, MJ being true to himself, said he's not going to join another team to win a ring, but he'll win one of his own.

And he did, 6 of them.
Jul 19, 2010 12:30am
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:41 AM
hoops - Thats all great. Here's the thing, we actually agree that LeBron is never going to be Michael Jordan. Or the next Michael Jordan. Or better than Michael Jordan. Here's my point, HE WAS NEVER GOING TO BE THAT. Bad as you guys wanted him to be, he never had it in him. So the next best thing is for him to be in that handful that is mentioned in that conversation. He still could be, but he needs to win. We disagree on this, but I don't think he has to be "the leader" in the sense that he has to do everything himself. Magic didn't do everything himself, but he's #1 on a lot of lists. There's no shame in not being a one man team. If he can be the best LeBron, and that leads to the players around him being the best as well, all this goes away, Wade's team or not.
Jul 19, 2010 12:41am
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:52 AM
Whoa....just because LBJ tanked the Boston series, doesn't mean the guy can't end up with better numbers than Jordan. I will be rooting against it now...but come on guys...let's get real here. LBJ won the MVP award in absolute landslides (2 years) for a reason.

He might be a bitch....but he will out do either Bosh or Wade next year. The other 2 dudes are good, but they can't sniff LBJ's shorts as a hoops player. Period.
Jul 19, 2010 12:52am
KR1245's avatar

KR1245

Senior Member

4,317 posts
Jul 19, 2010 7:30 AM
hoops23;426930 wrote:You say "you guys" like we're the only ones? Look around, former greats and national media are giving it to the guy. Even Skip Bayless said he didn't think LeBron would be this hated after the move...

And why couldn't he win titles in Cleveland? Because he couldn't win as the guy. I'm sure MJ heard "You can't win in Chicago" before he actually did it.

People forget that MJ jad the chance to leave Chicago before ANY titles were won and join a pretty damn good Knicks team that featured Pat Ewing.. But, MJ being true to himself, said he's not going to join another team to win a ring, but he'll win one of his own.

And he did, 6 of them.


Exactly. I dont understand the "cant win in Cleveland" logic. Why? Beacuse it hasnt happened yet? I'm sure Red Sox fans were saying the same thing when they were on their 80 plus year drought.
Jul 19, 2010 7:30am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Jul 19, 2010 10:09 AM
I'm pretty sure killdeer just took Little Danny behind the woodshed and just raped him.

On topic, I think a lot of people are realizing now that Lebron DOESN'T WANT TO BE JORDAN.

He doesn't care as much about his personal legacy as "the best" as much as he wants to just win championships.

I don't see why that's so hard to accept. Lebron simply isn't the person we tried to believe he was. It's not entirely his fault, it's partially our fault as fans for wanting our management to become enablers and bend over backwards for him in the hope that Lebron had a Jordan like attitude, which simply isn't the case.

Kobe has the Jordan mentality, not Lebron.
Jul 19, 2010 10:09am
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IggyPride00

Senior Member

6,482 posts
Jul 19, 2010 10:18 AM
Is the new Big Three offending the NBA's old guard? The latest Big Three backlash came Sunday from none other than Michael Jordan, who contributed his weighty opinion to the debate about whether LeBron James should've teamed up with two superstars instead of trying to beat them. "There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said after finishing tied for 22nd in the American Century Championship golf tournament in Stateline, Nev. "But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys." ... "Mike and I are in 100 percent agreement on this," Charles Barkley told the Arizona Republic this week. "If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you. That's ridiculous. I like LeBron. He's a great player. But I don't think in the history of sports you can find a two-time defending MVP leaving to go play with other people."

CBSSports.com
There is the entire Jordan comment with regard to Lebron from yesterday's Tahoe event. Apparently Barkley was interviewed as well so his comments are there too.
Jul 19, 2010 10:18am
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enigmaax

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4,511 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:06 PM
"If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you. That's ridiculous."

To me, this puts more of the onus on the Cavs. You HAD the two-time MVP, people should've been lining up to join him and you should've had the right cast around him at some point in the last seven years.

That is the luxury that everyone seems to forget about when they say Magic, Bird, Jordan, etc. would never leave - THEIR TEAMS GOT THEM THE HELP THEY NEEDED!! They didn't have to go looking elsewhere for it. Oh wait, I forgot, you have the best owner in sports.
Jul 19, 2010 12:06pm
V

vball10set

paying it forward

24,795 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:21 PM
MJ will always > LBJ
Jul 19, 2010 12:21pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

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5,739 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:29 PM
enigmaax;427093 wrote:"If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you. That's ridiculous."

To me, this puts more of the onus on the Cavs. You HAD the two-time MVP, people should've been lining up to join him and you should've had the right cast around him at some point in the last seven years.

That is the luxury that everyone seems to forget about when they say Magic, Bird, Jordan, etc. would never leave - THEIR TEAMS GOT THEM THE HELP THEY NEEDED!! They didn't have to go looking elsewhere for it. Oh wait, I forgot, you have the best owner in sports.



They had enough pieces around him to get it done the last 2 years. Stop making excuses for Lebron, that was the real problem in Cleveland.
Jul 19, 2010 12:29pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:33 PM
Skyhook79;427108 wrote:They had enough pieces around him to get it done the last 2 years. Stop making excuses for Lebron, that was the real problem in Cleveland.

You honestly think that the Cavs had a roster capable of beating the Lakers?

I'm a little torn on these comments. On one hand, I understand what Jordan and Barkley are saying. But at the same time, Jordan wasn't ever really in a position like Lebron. And to say that the stars should be lining up to play with Lebron has proven to be false.
Jul 19, 2010 12:33pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

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5,739 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:43 PM
thedynasty1998;427112 wrote:You honestly think that the Cavs had a roster capable of beating the Lakers?

I'm a little torn on these comments. On one hand, I understand what Jordan and Barkley are saying. But at the same time, Jordan wasn't ever really in a position like Lebron. And to say that the stars should be lining up to play with Lebron has proven to be false.



Who knows. They handled them pretty easily in the regular season, I know its not the same. But c'mon they CERTAINLY had enough to win the East and make it to the Finals the last 2 years and once you get there who knows what can happen.
Jul 19, 2010 12:43pm
KR1245's avatar

KR1245

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4,317 posts
Jul 19, 2010 12:52 PM
Skyhook79;427126 wrote:Who knows. They handled them pretty easily in the regular season, I know its not the same. But c'mon they CERTAINLY had enough to win the East and make it to the Finals the last 2 years and once you get there who knows what can happen.

Agreed
Jul 19, 2010 12:52pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Jul 19, 2010 1:02 PM
wes_mantooth;426702 wrote:Actually, I am pretty sure that he has stated numerous times that he wants to be the greatest of all time. That should be a goal, so I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that.

IMO Lebron wants to make sure he gets a title, so it came down probably to CHI and MIA (and CHI would have been a better fit for his legacy). I also do think these guys really are looking forward to playing together, and if I were setting out to "repair" Lebron's image/legacy a bit I would really play up that angle.

I also believe when Lebron gets a ring he will be looking for a trade to go do it with a supporting cast and try to put himself back in the GOAT discussions, just like Kobe pushed Shaq out. I get the "can't beat 'em, join 'em" criticism, and I think it's fair, but I also suspect secretly most of these guys would have LOVED to play with their friends, play with the best for a few years and try to be something special. Lebron could get 8 rings with those guys in MIA and it's not going to add-up to more than Jordan's or (potentially) Kobe's 2 3-peats with largely different surrounding casts.
Jul 19, 2010 1:02pm
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM
Skyhook79;427108 wrote:They had enough pieces around him to get it done the last 2 years. Stop making excuses for Lebron, that was the real problem in Cleveland.

I don't know. I thought he should've been able to carry a team to a title also. They tore through the regular season - were they overachieving there? I never considered them a real threat to the title, but I'm also big on actual results. They won a lot of games with no pressue. And couldn't come through when it counted - certainly LeBron has to take a big piece of that on himself, but at the same time, I look at the roster and I don't really see how a single person could've carried them. I guess, I have mixed feelings on it. But, the point is that I can understand LeBron's stance or feelings and why he would see it that way.
Jul 19, 2010 1:18pm
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krazie45

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1,055 posts
Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM
How many times does this need to be said? If the Cavs didn't have the talent to win a championship they wouldn't have had the best record 2 years in a row, PERIOD. I know it's the regular season, but it's a sample of 164 games. The talent was there, and they most certainly had enough talent to beat the Lakers.
Jul 19, 2010 1:18pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Jul 19, 2010 1:20 PM
enigmaax;427093 wrote:"If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you. That's ridiculous."

To me, this puts more of the onus on the Cavs. You HAD the two-time MVP, people should've been lining up to join him and you should've had the right cast around him at some point in the last seven years.

That is the luxury that everyone seems to forget about when they say Magic, Bird, Jordan, etc. would never leave - THEIR TEAMS GOT THEM THE HELP THEY NEEDED!! They didn't have to go looking elsewhere for it. Oh wait, I forgot, you have the best owner in sports.

Difference was that with LBJ on a 3 year deal the Cavs had to make moves, whether they were what they actually thought was best or not. They were on the clock, and the pieces that they actually may have wanted were not available at the time.
Jul 19, 2010 1:20pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Jul 19, 2010 1:21 PM
krazie45;427154 wrote:How many times does this need to be said? If the Cavs didn't have the talent to win a championship they wouldn't have had the best record 2 years in a row, PERIOD. I know it's the regular season, but it's a sample of 164 games. The talent was there, and they most certainly had enough talent to beat the Lakers.

The playoffs are such a different game. They actually play defense. The benches are not as important. There are not as many easy baskets.

The Cavs overachieved during the regular season as teams like the Lakers and Boston sort of coasted. Then when playoff time came around, Boston and LA turned it up a notch, whereas the Cavs were already playing at their max.
Jul 19, 2010 1:21pm
derek bomar's avatar

derek bomar

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3,722 posts
Jul 19, 2010 1:22 PM
krazie45;427154 wrote:How many times does this need to be said? If the Cavs didn't have the talent to win a championship they wouldn't have had the best record 2 years in a row, PERIOD. I know it's the regular season, but it's a sample of 164 games. The talent was there, and they most certainly had enough talent to beat the Lakers.

This cannot be stated enough
Jul 19, 2010 1:22pm